Capacity in the unlikely hood of a new stadium should be ? (2 Viewers)

Voice_of_Reason · Nov 22, 2015

Note to whoever. 15,000 ain't going to be big enough ! Yesterday's gate proved once again that even with moderate success in the third tier, 15,000 plus could be a regular gate. This could increase upto 20,000 nearer to the end of the season. The City of Coventry will suppport a successful team way beyond the proposed capacity. I can well see a gate of 26,000 as the season draws to an end and we are in the automatic promotion places. To the planners this should be a wake up call about the capacity proposed.

letsallsingtogether · Nov 22, 2015

Zero as there is no new ground

RFC · Nov 22, 2015

All depends where we are and what League we're in but history may just show an average well under 20,000!

Quote "@deanocity3: On this day 1986 only 11,000 turned up at HR to see [MENTION=2910]cov[/MENTION]entry_City beat Norwich 2-1 with @7777dp getting both https://t.co/8QmwYn13an"

RegTheDonk · Nov 22, 2015

RFC said:
All depends where we are and what League we're in but history may just show an average well under 20,000!

Quote "@deanocity3: On this day 1986 only 11,000 turned up at HR to see @coventry_City beat Norwich 2-1 with @7777dp getting both https://t.co/8QmwYn13an"

Very true, but look what happened the following year!

Colin1883 · Nov 22, 2015

2... Room for joy and Tim

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Nov 22, 2015

RFC said:
All depends where we are and what League we're in but history may just show an average well under 20,000!

Quote "@deanocity3: On this day 1986 only 11,000 turned up at HR to see [MENTION=2910]cov[/MENTION]entry_City beat Norwich 2-1 with @7777dp getting both https://t.co/8QmwYn13an"

And what were the crowds at other games that day?

Deleted member 2477 · Nov 22, 2015

Going by highfield rd i would say 28000 if we get to the championship as the fans are there with a little sucess

ccfc92 · Nov 22, 2015

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
And what were the crowds at other games that day?

http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-1985-1986/1/

Average gates for the whole league - 1985/86

http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-1986-1987/1/

And 1986/87, significant increase

chiefdave · Nov 22, 2015

What we need is a bigger ground with a roof and a sliding pitch

ccfc92 · Nov 22, 2015

We averaged 18-20K in the 1995 - 2001 seasons.

Speedies_Chips · Nov 22, 2015

Voice_of_Reason said:
Note to whoever. 15,000 ain't going to be big enough ! Yesterday's gate proved once again that even with moderate success in the third tier, 15,000 plus could be a regular gate. This could increase upto 20,000 nearer to the end of the season. The City of Coventry will suppport a successful team way beyond the proposed capacity. I can well see a gate of 26,000 as the season draws to an end and we are in the automatic promotion places. To the planners this should be a wake up call about the capacity proposed.

When you say 'unlikely hood' , are you talking about the prospects of a sliding roof ? Or do you mean unlikelihood?

Sky Blue Harry H · Nov 22, 2015

If you build it bigger and do what we're doing at the moment (i.e put the fans together, when we do well, you can get more fans in = extra cash. Build it too small, and they can't get in when we're doing better, and it limits potential. It isn't rocket science, and extra capacity won't ruin the atmosphere as this season proves.

the rumpo kid · Nov 22, 2015

40,000 for when we get into europe

Gynnsthetonic · Nov 22, 2015

I always thought 25000 seater would be about right for us going on the average for the last 30 years. Even in the Premiership and big games in the championship at the Ricoh like the Wolves, West Brom, Leeds and Leicester games we managed around 22000 home fans

Sky Blue Harry H · Nov 22, 2015

If an extra 5000 seats increased the cost by £5m (no idea if it would), then every time you filled those seats (say at £20 a time - including pie mone!) nets you an extra £100,000. Pays for itself after 50 games. So over a period of time you are in profit. If the cost of those seats is less, then you get there quicker. What you don't do is limit your potential. when we know that the fans are out there. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey (always wanted to say that!).

jas365 · Nov 22, 2015

It's a pointless thread as there won't be a new ground.

chiefdave · Nov 22, 2015

Sky Blue Harry H said:
If an extra 5000 seats increased the cost by £5m (no idea if it would), then every time you filled those seats (say at £20 a time - including pie mone!) nets you an extra £100,000. Pays for itself after 50 games. So over a period of time you are in profit. If the cost of those seats is less, then you get there quicker. What you don't do is limit your potential. when we know that the fans are out there. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey (always wanted to say that!).

That's exactly what Richardson said when I asked him why Arena2000 had a larger capacity than HR which we couldn't fill. Well apart from the monkey bit.

shmmeee · Nov 22, 2015

I've always wanted to see a two tier system a bit like MK Dons where the front half holds 15k and the back half 10k. Then you can just open up the front for small games.

I think anything less than 25k is underestimating our potential, but it'd need to look and sound good with smaller crowds.

15k is a joke, we haven't been below that at the Ricoh apart from since the League 1 fuckery started. Still say if we go up, especially as Champions, we'll average 20k next year.

chinamans view · Nov 22, 2015

I don't think the Ricoh is large enough when we get back in prem, we used to get 35000 every game when Jimmy hill first got us up there, This city is large, I think about the 8th in uk so give us the team and the fans will come back its up to the owners now to back TM just like Robins did for Jimmy hill. If they do Tony will get us up. And the fan base is massive. It cost nothing to have empty seats at a game as long as you get one game say Man U. where 45000 turn up once a year Its worth that bigger capacity ground.

Otis · Nov 22, 2015

chinamans view said:
I don't think the Ricoh is large enough when we get back in prem, we used to get 35000 every game when Jimmy hill first got us up there, This city is large, I think about the 8th in uk so give us the team and the fans will come back its up to the owners now to back TM just like Robins did for Jimmy hill. If they do Tony will get us up. And the fan base is massive. It cost nothing to have empty seats at a game as long as you get one game say Man U. where 45000 turn up once a year Its worth that bigger capacity ground.

Think that's pushing it a bit.

If we got to the Premier I would say we would get close to 30,000 for Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Spurs and Villa.

Not sure we would get many, if any over 30,000. A big cup game for sure, but not for a League game unless we were doing really, really well, which is unlikely in the Premier.

hill83 · Nov 22, 2015

Eleventy billion

letsallsingtogether · Nov 22, 2015

Otis said:
Think that's pushing it a bit.

If we got to the Premier I would say we would get close to 30,000 for Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Spurs and Villa.

Not sure we would get many, if any over 30,000. A big cup game for sure, but not for a League game unless we were doing really, really well, which is unlikely in the Premier.

Will Villa still be in the prem☺

ajsccfc · Nov 22, 2015

The Unlikely Hood was the working title for what became the Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

Calista · Nov 23, 2015

shmmeee said:
I've always wanted to see a two tier system a bit like MK Dons where the front half holds 15k and the back half 10k. Then you can just open up the front for small games.

I think anything less than 25k is underestimating our potential, but it'd need to look and sound good with smaller crowds.

15k is a joke, we haven't been below that at the Ricoh apart from since the League 1 fuckery started. Still say if we go up, especially as Champions, we'll average 20k next year.

I agree with this principle – a stadium might last for 100 years, so how the hell can you predict the circumstances of a club over such a long time frame? If we ever did move, I’d want something with imagination to it – for example, being able to see the pitch from the concourse at MK is great. And as you say, flexibility for bigger and smaller events is a must. If it’s the Butts, you’ve got to allow for CRFC who won’t get big crowds (at least in the short term).

I could only be enthusiastic about a new ground if it was done right and was big enough. Moving from the Ricoh to a small-time setup would be a kick in the teeth.

martcov · Nov 23, 2015

RFC said:
All depends where we are and what League we're in but history may just show an average well under 20,000!

Quote "@deanocity3: On this day 1986 only 11,000 turned up at HR to see [MENTION=2910]cov[/MENTION]entry_City beat Norwich 2-1 with @7777dp getting both https://t.co/8QmwYn13an"

To get an average figure of 20000 you need a larger capacity to balance out the gates which are under average.

Even for 15000 average ( more than possible ) you would need 18 - 20000 capacity.

Your one game historical example is meaningless.

We have never had a premiere league game at the Ricoh to compare with. We should be comparing with the likes of Southampton and Norwich - with a weighting for our City size and catchment area.

Deleted member 2477 · Nov 23, 2015

Weve beaten gillingham to go top of league 1 and we are all ready talking about the premiership lol. I agree though cant see a new ground ever happening

Rob S · Nov 23, 2015

Any stadium, wherever it may or may not be built, would be modular and designed for relatively easy expansion. Brighton added over 8,000 seats after their first season at Falmer and this has become the norm in modern stadium construction. Well, not even modern stadia...Norwich found out that the foundations for their main stand were made to hold a three tier stand when they were laid back in the early 20th C.

One thing to ponder on is the cost of building a capacity that doesn't get used enough & the running costs to support that. Is it better to have a 25,000 capacity that gets sold out twice a season on a 22,500 average or build 30,000 to cover the occasional 28–29k gate?

I'd also be wary of Fisher-esque predictions on potential crowds in these rarified & heady times at the top of League 1 after 18 games of a 46 game season. Part of the reason for our current success is that we've finally started working within our means and are cutting our cloth accordingly. A return to the days where we had ideas of Arena 2000s, Operation Premierships or 7,000 going to Suxfields is a recipe for disaster. Surely we've learned our* lesson by now?

[* Our/we can mean owners, club, fans, whoever. Delete as applicable.]

Voice_of_Reason · Nov 23, 2015

Speedies_Chips said:
When you say 'unlikely hood' , are you talking about the prospects of a sliding roof ? Or do you mean unlikelihood?

Thank you so much for pointing my spelling error out to me, I am extremely grateful. Thank you.

Voice_of_Reason · Nov 23, 2015

Times have changed and I wonder if comparing historical gates to modern day "gates" is quite the same ? The Championship is now of much higher quality and in many ways better than the old First Division. Gates in the Championship now appear to be higher than say 10 years ago ? The Championship I understand is envied in Europe. In short, yesterday's gate at the Ricoh proved that the crowds will come to see a successful team, many of whom are a new generation of Sky Blues potential followers. My belief is that if we are promoted gates will hover between 17,000 and 24,000.

Shakeitup · Nov 23, 2015

18-20k.

To pack it out. Stands close to the pitch. Turn it into a 'fortress', the Butts could be intimidating if we were doing well and packed it out. As the club that pioneered all seater stadia we should now try to follow the German model and have organised terracing. With optional temporary seats that could be used if need be (for any competitions that require all seater etc.)

If they were serious they should try to partner with the universities, local digital and technology companies to build a stadium that is up there in terms of interactivity as that of Sporting Kansas.

mrtrench · Nov 23, 2015

An unlikely hood.

shmmeee · Nov 23, 2015

Rob S said:
Any stadium, wherever it may or may not be built, would be modular and designed for relatively easy expansion. Brighton added over 8,000 seats after their first season at Falmer and this has become the norm in modern stadium construction. Well, not even modern stadia...Norwich found out that the foundations for their main stand were made to hold a three tier stand when they were laid back in the early 20th C.

One thing to ponder on is the cost of building a capacity that doesn't get used enough & the running costs to support that. Is it better to have a 25,000 capacity that gets sold out twice a season on a 22,500 average or build 30,000 to cover the occasional 28–29k gate?

I'd also be wary of Fisher-esque predictions on potential crowds in these rarified & heady times at the top of League 1 after 18 games of a 46 game season. Part of the reason for our current success is that we've finally started working within our means and are cutting our cloth accordingly. A return to the days where we had ideas of Arena 2000s, Operation Premierships or 7,000 going to Suxfields is a recipe for disaster. Surely we've learned our* lesson by now?

[* Our/we can mean owners, club, fans, whoever. Delete as applicable.]

Sorry, I just don't agree with a modular design. Garlick and the architect talked about this and it turned out it was a 6 month turn around. If we got back to back promotions we'd be in the prem on 13k or whatever for the first few months. Then if we got relegated again we'd be back to square one, except it would've cost us more to get there with a modular design.

A two tier system would give you the same savings for running costs, but also not hold you back should you get success.

I also have to take issue with the methodology used by a few and by the club when talking about past attendances. To only look back to the Prem is nonsense, you are taking our 40 year slide down the leagues as the norm. If you look at any club, or even look at us in the 60s, success massively impacts crowds, lack of success slowly eats away at them. We've had two events that have boosted crowds: winning the cup and the Ricoh, and the cup had only a minimal effect. Doing well in the league is what matters and to only take the last 40 years is to only look at half the data.

Anything less than 20k is an admission we don't plan to leave L1.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2015

But didn't Brighton's ground open with a capacity of nearly 22k expand to 27750 then further expand to 30750?. All of which are above the "proposed" scheme that has been described in the press for CCFC. Surely if we had Brighton's success we would match their crowds. But that brings with it the need for greater space, better infra-structure etc doesn't it?

From their accounts the original stadium build was £92m, the first extension possible £8m and the second extension possibly £18m. Oh and the football operation pays £1m per annum for rent of the community stadium. worryingly even with that capacity they made group losses of 10m and 15m in 2014 and 2013 respectively on turnovers of 23m

Seems to me the CCFC stadium "plan" was hatched when the club was in the doldrums with seemingly no way out and that events have overtaken it. If a city centre stadium is the plan and it appears to be very popular then assuming even modest success, promotion and staying there, makes 12 to 15k short of the mark in terms of maximising income.

I suspect there is not a great difference in the scheme of things between the cost of 15k stadium and a 20k stadium. The major costs are in the land purchase and the foundations I would think and that would have to be the same for both wouldn't it? even if it were to be modular? Although it seems to have cost Brighton about 26m in total to extend twice. Where is all this money coming from for CCFC to do such a scheme?

I think that it would have to be at least 20k from the get go. To maximise income from a smaller stadium I think would mean adding a premium to ticket prices .......... and then blaming those prices on the demand for a "scarce" commodity/availability

just my opinion

chiefdave · Nov 23, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
From their accounts the original stadium build was £92m, the first extension possible £8m and the second extension possibly £18m. Oh and the football operation pays £1m per annum for rent of the community stadium. worryingly even with that capacity they made group losses of 10m and 15m in 2014 and 2013 respectively on turnovers of 23m

The club owns the ground don't they, who are they paying rent to? I thought their chairman paid for everything on an interest free loan that has no plan for any repayments and gets written off in a few years.

dadgad · Nov 23, 2015

The answer is a stadium on wheels. Park it in a whoppin field close to Cov when things are going well and tip off the ultras a day before the match, cash on the gate.
When things are goin bad rent out the wheels to highest bidder anywhere in country.
Modular ? Yes.
Clip on car park, train station and fast food outlets? Naturally.
Pitch? Not necessary, It's a field ffs.

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