CCFC ATTENDANCE - Myth and Reality (1 Viewer)

johnniericoh · Oct 7, 2011

A lot of posts refer to the level of CCFC support ranging from the slide of attendance numbers over the last few years to the potential improvement in fans attending the Ricoh if we had a successful/winning team.

The reality is according to the last 20 years of attendance records is that we have NEVER had a large hardcore of support a la Derby, Notts Forest, Leicester, Norwich etc.

Even in the period from the launch of the Premier League until relegation (9 seasons) we only averaged 18,284 with a high of 20,809 and a low of just 13,564.

Things got worse in the four seasons as a tier 2 side at Highfield Road prior to moving to The Ricoh: average 15,559, high 16,455, low of 14,813.

Since moving to the Ricoh there has been an alarming slide from the first season there going from 21,180 in 05/06 to 16,310 last season - current season 11/12 average 14,699

Bearing in mind that the original breakeven figure at the Ricoh was, I believe, 24,000 therefor can we realistically expect an increase of 60% + from the current average even if we do well.

Sorry for all the number crunching but it at least outlines the reality of the situation and the mountain we have to climb to match our rivals.

What do you think - is there really the support out there to make it all worth while ???

PUSB

We'll_live_and_die · Oct 7, 2011

Thanks and No I don't believe we have the makings of a BIG club unless some rich geezer comes in and spends on us like has happened at Man City. Let's not forget where they were 10 years ago.

Otis · Oct 7, 2011

Thing is, ALL the teams you have mentioned have had some success in the last 20 years. That is the reality.

Until we have any degree of success we will never see our true attendance potential.

smileycov · Oct 7, 2011

while i agree we have a minority support, i do not believe that in the prem the highest at Highfield rd was 20k, and that in the last season there we had a highest of 16k......Derby last game at highfield was bursting at the seams, 16k i very much doubt it.

BenInTurin · Oct 7, 2011

smileycov said:
while i agree we have a minority support, i do not believe that in the prem the highest at Highfield rd was 20k, and that in the last season there we had a highest of 16k......Derby last game at highfield was bursting at the seams, 16k i very much doubt it.

He's talking about the average over the season Smiley. I think he knows we have had a few sell outs with the bigger games.

smileycov · Oct 7, 2011

Ben, he stated average 15,559, high 16,455, low of 14,813. That was at highfield rd last season!! read it again you will see what i mean fella.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 7, 2011

I think you have a very valid point johnniericoh. We have never had a big support. Ok for the odd match here and there but on average no. That has a big effect on the finances of the club - bums on seats means money in the bank means a decent budget without breaking the bank.

Most of the details for the championship period for the club are on the Football League website
the averages are -
current 14699
2011 16309
2010 17305
2009 17407
2008 19123
2007 20342
2006 21301
2005 16047
2004 14816
2003 14812

We have a catchment area of what ? 400,000 people ? Thats less than 5% of those folk attending the games each and every year. I know results have not been good in the Championship era but the averages in the Premiership were not good either even with the boost of the big boy teams coming to town. For whatever reason the Local public do not support the team enough to part with their hard earnt cash

this is a useful site also for attendance info http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/covc.htm

valiant15 · Oct 7, 2011

I remember us playing I think it was Wimbledon at home in 91(memory not that great)and the attendence was about 11k! I reckon the people of Coventry took top flight football for granted hence the poor figures,unless we played one of the big clubs etc. It doesn't help when you see loads of locals wandering around with the usual man u etc shirts on etc. However,I do think if we had a couple of seasons of playoff finishes then the ricoh would be a good 80% full. That's about as likely as us getting rooney on loan.

CovInEssex · Oct 7, 2011

The Premiership is a lot different now. It was took for granted then, and as said, any glory or success and I believe the Ricoh would be bursting at the seams.

I'd say 70% of our fans don't go games...then there's the United/Liverpool fans that would say they've followed us since 1993. Then the new interest from Polish and Asian communities.

wingy · Oct 7, 2011

Jonnie it highlights one thing ,"our grounds too big for us",the first season in the Ricoh i seem to remember 22-23000 on move ,then we shipped about 8000 fans over the next 4-5 seasons ,2-3000 through stadium experience ,the rest the product on the pitch.now since this new board i thinnk its safe to assume at least another 2000 have gone ,so you can make two arguments out of it.First Sisu,should not get castigated for forming a business model to suit this scenario,or as in the thread where to play,we move ,play somewhere else ,get our own income,let ACL stick a roof on it turn it into an exhibition hall ,its overvalued for us and of no benefit as things stand,we could build a new one cheaper than they will sell for ,and we wont be kept in a political straight jacket that is the arena.

Sky Blue M · Oct 7, 2011

I think our attendences have been good for what we are. No other team in England has gone as long without a top 6 finish. If we actually managed to have a succesful season I think you would see our attendances shoot up. Look at last season game against leeds. I know they bought a lot but the buzz around the club was pretty decent at the time as we were doing well in the league. I honestly think that if we were in the play offs after say 25 games we would get at least 20000 home fans at games

oldskyblue58 · Oct 7, 2011

Think moving elsewhere is a non starter Wingy. For a start off the council wouldnt give planning permission and therefore to get a new stadium would mean moving even further away from the core CCFC supporters. It couldnt happen for probably 5 years or more because there would be planning objections etc and it takes time to build. Where would we get the finance from to even buy the land let alone build the stadium - i would bet on the finance costs costing more than the 1.2 rent we pay per annum. We would have to pay for the Ricoh at the same time as paying for the build - how? there are no ready built alternatives. We have made our bed and have to lay in it

oldskyblue58 · Oct 7, 2011

Here is a statistic in 1987 our average crowd at Highfield Rd was 16120. We all know the significance of the year and we finished 10th in the league I believe. Following season the average was 17509 (finished 10th again) so success brought no big increase in numbers. Just how successful have we got to be to get fans to part with their cash? Historically they dont, being so unsuccessful in the Championship only makes it worse

johnniericoh · Oct 7, 2011

smileycov,

I am only referring to averages in my analysis - yes we were bursting at the seams against Derby (last game 04/05) @ 22,728 BUT that effect on the average was minimal as we had several abysmal attendances before that:

Millwall - 13,910
Gillingham - 11,966
Rotherham - 13,834
Ipswich - 12,608
Reading - 13,633
Preston - 12,478
Crewe - 12,823
Wigan - 12,130

We only had 2 or 3 gates above 20,000 that season which coupled with the above would seriously reduce the average.

PUSB

ashbyjan · Oct 7, 2011

Spot on as ever OSB - we are stuck at the Ricoh so have to make the best off it. With a successful side, good pricing, excellent marketing and community involvement I would see crowds of 20k being possible but as all the press surrounding our club is negative, owners who don't give a damn, a team not achieving results etc etc the crowds are just going to dwindle further this season and I expect the average is going to stay around the 11-12,000, more for better supported teams like Leeds. If we were to go down the I would see season ticket sales plummet to 50% of current levels and people waiting to see if we make a challenge - if we dont the crowds will be 8000 tops and so the downward spiral will continue. Coventry is not and never will be a football hotbed for a variety of reasons and it will take positive initiatives from the club to reverse the trend.

smileycov · Oct 7, 2011

johnniericoh said:
smileycov,

I am only referring to averages in my analysis - yes we were bursting at the seams against Derby (last game 04/05) @ 22,728 BUT that effect on the average was minimal as we had several abysmal attendances before that:

Millwall - 13,910
Gillingham - 11,966
Rotherham - 13,834
Ipswich - 12,608
Reading - 13,633
Preston - 12,478
Crewe - 12,823
Wigan - 12,130

We only had 2 or 3 gates above 20,000 that season which coupled with the above would seriously reduce the average.

PUSB

Hi, yea i know...but you confused me with the highest gate of 16k thats all. I understand your point and do not wish to take away from a good post..

cheers PUSB

johnniericoh · Oct 7, 2011

Thanks smileycov

PUSB

Astute · Oct 7, 2011

Sky Blue M said:
I think our attendences have been good for what we are. No other team in England has gone as long without a top 6 finish. If we actually managed to have a succesful season I think you would see our attendances shoot up.

Although this stat is correct, it paints a very false picture.

How many clubs have been at least in the playoffs in this time and have never played in the Prem?

How many teams have not even played in the Championship(or old 2nd Div)?

Have any teams not even managed to get out of the old 4th Div (2nd Div now)?

How many fans of the teams above would have liked to have spent about 75% of these seasons in the top flight like we had?

If anybody is that bored they could check out the stats for these teams. Might make more interesting reading than the first stat stated.

wingy · Oct 7, 2011

I know in my heart the idea of a new stadium or move is fanciful OSB,but our marriage of convenience is an abusive one,Man City with all their wealth only pay £3m. per season ,i don't know if they recieve their income streams ,we certainly paid more when we moved in probably 2-2.5m. so in away ACL have possibly tried to help us .but we don't know what terms they offer other occassional users of the stadium,we do know that for the last 2 yrs the have made £4m. after tax and debt servicing ,less about £2.5m.developement,it would suggest after saleries maintainence ,compass a turnover of £20+m. .But from a sky Blue perspective we have to change the dynamic that will kill our club,the stadium needs seperating out from the rest of the enterprise ,so as to remove the political big stick ,that is their fear of an asset stripping excerciise from the club and buy it,god knows how

johnniericoh · Oct 7, 2011

Ashbyjan

Do you really think our gates would dip to 8,000 in the next league when Leeds, Southampton, Norwich, Leicester etc managed to average 20,000 in their promotion years in League 1

If we had a winning/promotion season like the above what gates would you forecast fur us.

PUSB

Sky Blue M · Oct 7, 2011

Astute said:
Although this stat is correct, it paints a very false picture.

How many clubs have been at least in the playoffs in this time and have never played in the Prem?

How many teams have not even played in the Championship(or old 2nd Div)?

Have any teams not even managed to get out of the old 4th Div (2nd Div now)?

How many fans of the teams above would have liked to have spent about 75% of these seasons in the top flight like we had?

If anybody is that bored they could check out the stats for these teams. Might make more interesting reading than the first stat stated.

In my opinion it doesnt matter what league you are in if all you do is struggle. Teams similar sizes to us have been relegated and have then had success in a lower league and therefore there crowds have gone up. Staying in the premiership is not succesful in most peoples eyes whereas winning, no matter the level, is.

stupot07 · Oct 7, 2011

OSB - I'd say our true catchment are should include Coventry 300k+ and Warwickshire 550k+, so that's nearly a million people.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 7, 2011

I blame Soccer Saturday. Many ‘fans’ prefer a Saturday afternoon down the pub watching soccer Saturday with their bets then watching city. I couldn’t myself but i don’t blame them. If we ever had a promotion challenge (Doubtful i know) we would reach 23 k i reckon plus away fans. Leeds last November showed that. What was the attendance that day? 27k? Last year at this time a slight buzz was sweeping the city now look at us.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 7, 2011

stupot07 said:
OSB - I'd say our true catchment are should include Coventry 300k+ and Warwickshire 550k+, so that's nearly a million people.

Exactly, we don't do enough with Warwickshire... Considering now where the ground is... Nuneaton and Bedworth should be targeted more.

stupot07 · Oct 7, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Exactly, we don't do enough with Warwickshire... Considering now where the ground is... Nuneaton and Bedworth should be targeted more.

And the posh end - leamington, Warwick and Stratford!

coundonskyblue · Oct 7, 2011

The problem with this is that the OP is looking at a specific point in time. The last 20 years have probably been the most depressing in the clubs history, and the facts here have been manipulated to emphasise a certain point. If you look back over the last 60-70 years the clubs support looks much better.

Highest ever CCFC average attendence in a season is 34705.

Compared to the 'great' supported teams of Leicester (31359) & Forest (32715), our support looks pretty good.

Also it is alsways said that Highfield Rd was empty during the prem years, I don't remember this to be the case at all. Maybe pre Big Ron years, but after that it was pretty much full for most games.

1996 - 18500
1997 - 19600
1998 - 19700
1999 - 20700
2000 - 20800
2001 - 20500

Average over last 6 years in prem - 19966

Leicester had a similer sized ground to us. During that time they had:

1996 - In Div 1 so not comparable
1997 - 20100
1998 - 20600
1999 - 20400
2000 - 19800
2001 - 20400
2002 - 19800

Leicesters average - 20183

So they only had on average an extra 200 over that time, during which they won the League cup twice, runners up once, had four top half finishes, and played in Europe. We on the other hand thought we had an amazing season finishing 15th and no last day relegation fight.

Surely the best way to gauge potential support is to look at a club during its most succesful time not it's worst?

oldskyblue58 · Oct 7, 2011

all good points CSB

But look what happened in the season before and after our greatest triumph, even that didnt bring the fans in

Bottom line in all this is that given such a large catchment area even averaging 20k in supporters is but a very small percentage of the population available. There has always been room for more fans (HR capacity all seater 23489<mid 1990's> and pre seating the record was 51455) but they havent wanted to consistently turn up. We are not a well supported team in terms of numbers

brinner · Oct 7, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
Here is a statistic in 1987 our average crowd at Highfield Rd was 16120. We all know the significance of the year and we finished 10th in the league I believe. Following season the average was 17509 (finished 10th again) so success brought no big increase in numbers. Just how successful have we got to be to get fans to part with their cash? Historically they dont, being so unsuccessful in the Championship only makes it worse

success did bring an increase in attendances in 1987 mate.

we were averaging about 13000 until we beat sheff wed in the quarter finals and after that game the attendances for home games rocketed to well over 20000 for the remaining games that season.

same with the seson after, we were getting well over 20k again for the 1st few games of the new season, then as we started to revert to type the attendaces plummeted back down to below the 15k mark.

so those stats suggest if we had some success it would entice fans to come and watch but after a few months if that success isnt sustained the fickle folk of cov will soon be off again.

coundonskyblue · Oct 7, 2011

brinner said:
success did bring an increase in attendances in 1987 mate.

we were averaging about 13000 until we beat sheff wed in the quarter finals and after that game the attendances for home games rocketed to well over 20000 for the remaining games that season.

same with the seson after, we were getting well over 20k again for the 1st few games of the new season, then as we started to revert to type the attendaces plummeted back down to below the 15k mark.

so those stats suggest if we had some success it would entice fans to come and watch but after a few months if that success isnt sustained the fickle folk of cov will soon be off again.

Also though in 87/88 Arsenal were only averaging 29k, its how it was back then, football crowds were low. Villa only had 18k in 87 (admittedly they did go down that year).

Forest 19k, Derby 17k, crowds were just low then. We won the cup at the worst possible time.

pusbccfc · Oct 7, 2011

That women who earlier in the week won rights to show football matches streamed from abroad shows a big problem.
On midlands today there was a report about wolves and how there attendances are dropping, because many of the pubs around the ground now show pretty much all the games, due to streams from around the world.
Somethings needs to be to stop because its not just coventry with attendance drops, look around the prem,
Wigan
Blackburn
Bolton
And so on are averaging below 20k and even the 'bigger' teams there dropping.
Even leeds last week against pompy only got 22k.
Prices will have to be dropped to get more fans in, there charging under 16s at leeds next week 18quid on a Tuesday night!!

Otis · Oct 7, 2011

brinner said:
success did bring an increase in attendances in 1987 mate.

we were averaging about 13000 until we beat sheff wed in the quarter finals and after that game the attendances for home games rocketed to well over 20000 for the remaining games that season.

same with the seson after, we were getting well over 20k again for the 1st few games of the new season, then as we started to revert to type the attendaces plummeted back down to below the 15k mark.

so those stats suggest if we had some success it would entice fans to come and watch but after a few months if that success isnt sustained the fickle folk of cov will soon be off again.

Exactly! You can serve up facts and stats however you want, but this club has been literally starved of success for an absolute age. I think it is a miracle we are getting the crowds we get now.

City had a successful team the crowds would be there. There is a whole swathe of City fans who simply just do not attend matches. Have the team winning week in week out and many of them would return.

This club has been in the doldrums for at least 13 or 14 years. Just look at the other clubs that have been mentioned here and you see how many play-off final appearances they have, how many promotions they have and how many cups they have and how many times they have been up and down from the Premiership.

No doubt in my mind whatsoever that were City flying at the top of the table they would be getting around and over 20,000 regularly.

coundonskyblue · Oct 7, 2011

Otis said:
Exactly! You can serve up facts and stats however you want, but this club has been literally starved of success for an absolute age. I think it is a miracle we are getting the crowds we get now.

City had a successful team the crowds would be there. There is a whole swathe of City fans who simply just do not attend matches. Have the team winning week in week out and many of them would return.

This club has been in the doldrums for at least 13 or 14 years. Just look at the other clubs that have been mentioned here and you see how many play-off final appearances they have, how many promotions they have and how many cups they have and how many times they have been up and down from the Premiership.

No doubt in my mind whatsoever that were City flying at the top of the table they would be getting around and over 20,000 regularly.

The best example of this was the second half of the first Ricoh year. From xmas to may the average was about 23-24k.

Before anyone says it was because of interest in a new ground, that had long gone by xmas as the crowds were starting to drop until the team turned around.

wingy · Oct 7, 2011

Thay woman with pub PUSB is'nt on the winner as has been declared. the prem believe its actually strengthened their hand in policing piracy ,as she only won the right as an individual ,not for buisiness purposes.

BurbageSkyBlues · Oct 7, 2011

Simply put, success breeds interest and hope, and with those two there would be bigger crowds, particularly if optimism is rewarded.

Last home game of last year, against Reading, nothing to play for.....but a gate of about 22K (from memory) , because we had hope of exciting football and the coming season (aided by a low cost ticket, admittedly). But it shows the support is there, it just needs a catalyst.

BTW, don't underestimate the support we have from outside the city....the truly shocking fact is how few come from within the city boundary!

Jack Griffin · Oct 7, 2011

stupot07 said:
And the posh end - leamington, Warwick and Stratford!

I always suspected that it was a mistake to build the new ground in the N of the City & that there is a bigger fan base from the towns & villages S of the City (e.g. Warwick/Leamington/Rugby/Kenilworth).

The club may well have had the the information neded to analyse this before thy made the decision about a new site, but I bet they didn't do that (some people might say that this was because other vested interests took priority, but I couldn't possibly comment).

I wonder what the break down of season ticket addresses by postcode is like.. the new commercial manager, if he is worth his salt will soon have this to hand!

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