Championship Sustainability Index (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

Seems SISU weren't running us quite as efficiently as they claimed... although also explains a Hyam fire sale! Bristol City often held up as what we should avoid, but seem to be more efficient than us...

Should be noted, it also includes things like fan engagement in its ranking, and safe to say we'd have probably been graded as quite shit at that!

fernandopartridge · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
Seems SISU weren't running us quite as efficiently as they claimed... although also explains a Hyam fire sale! Bristol City often held up as what we should avoid, but seem to be more efficient than us...

Should be noted, it also includes things like fan engagement in its ranking, and safe to say we'd have probably been graded as quite shit at that!

View attachment 28690

Rumours of Huddersfield going into administration and likewise West Brom, any idea what the definition of sustainability is here?

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
Rumours of Huddersfield going into administration and likewise West Brom, any idea what the definition of sustainability is here?

Sustainability Index said:
The Sustainability Index was divided into four sections deemed to be valued in the government’s fan-led review published in November 2021: financial sustainability, good governance, fan engagement and equality standards.

Each of those was weighted to present an overall score for every Premier League and Championship club, with financial sustainability carrying the greatest value of the four.

That particular sub-section was calculated by measuring current assets, debts, liabilities, loans repayable within a year and wages as a percentage of revenue. All information was taken from official accounts published via Companies House to create a snapshot of each club’s financial health.

Align that with scores awarded for good governance, fan engagement and equality standards and you find each club’s ultimate score in the Sustainability Index.

Bear in mind that the clubs you mention have sharply downturned since this would be calculated too (much as we hope King will help lift us!).

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
Seems SISU weren't running us quite as efficiently as they claimed... although also explains a Hyam fire sale! Bristol City often held up as what we should avoid, but seem to be more efficient than us...

Should be noted, it also includes things like fan engagement in its ranking, and safe to say we'd have probably been graded as quite shit at that!

View attachment 28690

The top 2 clubs receive obscene parachute payments but why let that get in the way…

fatso · Mar 11, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The top 2 clubs receive obscene parachute payments but why let that get in the way…

Because while they receive that money, they remain sustainable! ....... simples

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The top 2 clubs receive obscene parachute payments but why let that get in the way…

...and Bristol City have, of course, obscene parachute payments, as do Sunderland, Millwall, Rotherham... but why let *that* get in the way.

Let's also not let it get in the way that they're running better accoring to income than us regardless, but why let that get in the way.

Lets face it, SISU have been a total disaster.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
...and Bristol City have, of course, obscene parachute payments, as do Sunderland, Millwall, Rotherham... but why let *that* get in the way.

Let's also not let it get in the way that they're running better accoring to income than us regardless, but why let that get in the way.

Lets face it, SISU have been a total disaster.

I’m not trying to claim we are a beacon of sustainability, but 4 of the top 6 in that list are still receiving 8 figure parachute payments, and another has just finished getting 3 years of them. Unless the idea of a great Championship business plan is to keep getting relegated from the top flight.

Luton should be the standout example for us. Better run for years and always one step ahead of us despite having much smaller crowds for the most part.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I’m not trying to claim we are a beacon of sustainability, but 4 of the top 6 in that list are still receiving 8 figure parachute payments, and another has just finished getting 3 years of them. Unless the idea of a great Championship business plan is to keep getting relegated from the top flight.

Luton should be the standout example for us. Better run for years and always one step ahead of us despite having much smaller crowds for the most part.

So lets look at *all the others* who are better than us, despite the fact that, apparently, we have a poor budget because our club has been run sustainably. It's a pointless digression to consider parachute payments as the income affects budget - Norwich, despite parachute payments, would be top of the Premier League list too, if they were in it - what it signifies is that they're good at running in a relatively sustainable way compared to their competition.

It hasn't, clearly. We're behind clubs who for years have been held up as examples that we should be thankful aren't us. We can't even run in a sustainable fashion in any remote sense of the word, and be successful.

So pretty much in the same basket as a new stadium on the horizon etc etc, SISU have been totally incapable of practising what they preached. Sure, you could make a case that what we needed to do was improve our income generation to help our ranking in that particular table, but they've failed as dismally in that as anything else.

Thank God they've gone, eh.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
So lets look at *all the others* who are better than us, despite the fact that, apparently, we have a poor budget because our club has been run sustainably. It's a pointless digression to consider parachute payments as the income affects budget - Norwich, despite parachute payments, would be top of the Premier League list too, if they were in it - what it signifies is that they're good at running in a relatively sustainable way compared to their competition.

It hasn't, clearly. We're behind clubs who for years have been held up as examples that we should be thankful aren't us. We can't even run in a sustainable fashion in any remote sense of the word, and be successful.

So pretty much in the same basket as a new stadium on the horizon etc etc, SISU have been totally incapable of practising what they preached. Sure, you could make a case that what we needed to do was improve our income generation to help our ranking in that particular table, but they've failed as dismally in that as anything else.

Thank God they've gone, eh.

Norwich receive piles of cash from the Premier League and don’t spend much of it, for the most part. Looks great to keep collecting cash for being relegated every other season but I am sure even their own fans are getting tired of that cycle.

Luton have a tiny ground, no tycoon owner and got from non league to the Championship, while also outperforming us every season since League 2 despite Robins’ miracle work. It seems clear to me who we should be learning from.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 11, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Norwich receive piles of cash from the Premier League and don’t spend much of it, for the most part. Looks great to keep collecting cash for being relegated every other season but I am sure even their own fans are getting tired of that cycle.

Luton have a tiny ground, no tycoon owner and got from non league to the Championship, while also outperforming us every season since League 2 despite Robins’ miracle work. It seems clear to me who we should be learning from.

Luton always stayed by the club but until now I’m not sure we’ve managed to follow in their footsteps

Clear to me that since covid sisu weren’t interested in adding money.

Quite pleased we aren’t bottom. Many on here know what’s required to improve off the pitch and it looks like mr king is starting to do a lot of that

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
and it looks like mr king is starting to do a lot of that

Lets hope so. Building infrastructure is what makes a club able to compete year in year and if a manager sods off, not as one-offs.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
Lets hope so. Building infrastructure is what makes a club able to compete year in year and if a manager sods off, not as one-offs.

Heard he’s very hands on off the pitch and he’s prioritised the relationship with robins and the person running the stadium for Fraser group

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Heard he’s very hands on off the pitch and he’s prioritised the relationship with robins and the person running the stadium for Fraser group

Well that's promising of course... still rather worried he doesn't seem to have factored in the stadium when buying the club(!) but it's definitely a wait and see what happens really.

Also encouraging we've actually been advertising for staff, and seem to be looking at ways to improve income generation etc - which seems rather better than the hope for the best approach we seem to have had until now!

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 11, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Luton always stayed by the club but until now I’m not sure we’ve managed to follow in their footsteps

Clear to me that since covid sisu weren’t interested in adding money.

Quite pleased we aren’t bottom. Many on here know what’s required to improve off the pitch and it looks like mr king is starting to do a lot of that

Agree he looks to be making the club more professional in most respects. Which isn’t hard compared to what he inherited but regardless very welcome.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
Well that's promising of course... still rather worried he doesn't seem to have factored in the stadium when buying the club(!) but it's definitely a wait and see what happens really.

Also encouraging we've actually been advertising for staff, and seem to be looking at ways to improve income generation etc - which seems rather better than the hope for the best approach we seem to have had until now!

Yeah you can’t run a championship club with
Dave B
Tynan
Mark Hornby
Ticket office lady

I know there’s a few more and aiming to maximise money to the first team squad but you have to maximise every opportunity and that needs investment

I know I’m a little too quick to defend the club against criticism but I do think Mark is spectacular delivering on his portfolios much like the other mark at the club delivering above expectation year on year

I’d love to know the full story of what happened with the sale. Clearly selling even a month earlier would have given king a chance of uniting the club and stadium but from what I’ve seen he is a businessmen that understands collaboration and mutual benefit

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
but from what I’ve seen he is a businessmen that understands collaboration and mutual benefit

Can't imagine why he felt the need to buy out SISU's remaining 15% then!

Grendel · Mar 11, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Norwich receive piles of cash from the Premier League and don’t spend much of it, for the most part. Looks great to keep collecting cash for being relegated every other season but I am sure even their own fans are getting tired of that cycle.

Luton have a tiny ground, no tycoon owner and got from non league to the Championship, while also outperforming us every season since League 2 despite Robins’ miracle work. It seems clear to me who we should be learning from.

They lost £26 million in the last championship season and were even spending 88% of turnover on wages last season

Nuskyblue · Mar 11, 2023

Grendel said:
They lost £26 million in the last championship season and were even spending 88% of turnover on wages last season

Norwich?

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 11, 2023

Grendel said:
They lost £26 million in the last championship season and were even spending 88% of turnover on wages last season

But second in the sustainability league?

Grendel · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
So lets look at *all the others* who are better than us, despite the fact that, apparently, we have a poor budget because our club has been run sustainably. It's a pointless digression to consider parachute payments as the income affects budget - Norwich, despite parachute payments, would be top of the Premier League list too, if they were in it - what it signifies is that they're good at running in a relatively sustainable way compared to their competition.

It hasn't, clearly. We're behind clubs who for years have been held up as examples that we should be thankful aren't us. We can't even run in a sustainable fashion in any remote sense of the word, and be successful.

So pretty much in the same basket as a new stadium on the horizon etc etc, SISU have been totally incapable of practising what they preached. Sure, you could make a case that what we needed to do was improve our income generation to help our ranking in that particular table, but they've failed as dismally in that as anything else.

Thank God they've gone, eh.

It would be interesting to see when this was taken as our situation has deteriorated significantly in the last accounts - the club were borrowing heavily from high interest funding to compete

Grendel · Mar 11, 2023

Nuskyblue said:
Norwich?

yes - it’s nonsense just to say they’ve got those payments - we’d want them if we were promoted as without it we couldn’t spend any money even on wages if promoted. It’s only a sustainable payment if you go back up

Grendel · Mar 11, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
But second in the sustainability league?

Without the payments they’d be bottom and I assume the info is out of date a bit as Huddersfield are in some strife now

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 11, 2023

Grendel said:
yes - it’s nonsense just to say they’ve got those payments - we’d want them if we were promoted as without it we couldn’t spend any money even on wages if promoted. It’s only a sustainable payment if you go back up

And you adjust yourbudget accordingly don't you - have players on contracts that end when your parachute payments end etc and / or sell off some.

We'd have done the same if we had them... except more inneficiently, it seems.

Nuskyblue · Mar 11, 2023

Grendel said:
yes - it’s nonsense just to say they’ve got those payments - we’d want them if we were promoted as without it we couldn’t spend any money even on wages if promoted. It’s only a sustainable payment if you go back up

How is the index calculated and by whom?

Nuskyblue · Mar 11, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
And you adjust yourbudget accordingly don't you - have players on contracts that end when your parachute payments end etc and / or sell off some.

We'd have done the same if we had them... except more inneficiently, it seems.

Norwich seem to stockpile players in the Championship for when they come back down. I'm sure they have a few players that flip flop from the first team to on loan depending on what league they are in

Grendel · Mar 11, 2023

Nuskyblue said:
How is the index calculated and by whom?

i didn’t put in on here

Grendel · Mar 11, 2023

Nuskyblue said:
Norwich seem to stockpile players in the Championship for when they come back down. I'm sure they have a few players that flip flop from the first team to on loan depending on what league they are in

they still need to get promoted or ensure contracts are ran down effectively

Nuskyblue · Mar 11, 2023

Grendel said:
they still need to get promoted or ensure contracts are ran down effectively

Fair point

Nick · Mar 11, 2023

Is this before or after the debt went?

slowpoke · Mar 11, 2023

I read a while back that Norwich along with WBA are desperate for promotion this season Norwich apparently have seven players on well over £30k a week wages and one I’m assuming Puki on £40k the rest won’t be on a pittance either.

Albion have a lot on similar high wages don’t know how many. West Brom owner owes them £5 million and despite assurances as yet no sign of repaying it and as we know they have taken out a wonga type £20 million loan just to get through this season, the fear there is he is hanging around waiting to trouser any parachute money or even promotion money.

We should be grateful for our now seemingly positive just in time position and of course a management team most in our division are enviable of.

fernandopartridge · Mar 11, 2023

Our score has probably improved as a result of removing the long term debt. I don't think there is a club in the division not reliant on an owner to some extent or in receipt of temporary parachute payments so the whole table is nonsense really.

Evo1883 · Mar 11, 2023

Bristol city over 70 million in debt

WBA getting payday loans

What's the list about ?

Danceswithhorses · Mar 11, 2023

slowpoke said:
I read a while back that Norwich along with WBA are desperate for promotion this season Norwich apparently have seven players on well over £30k a week wages and one I’m assuming Puki on £40k the rest won’t be on a pittance either.

Albion have a lot on similar high wages don’t know how many. West Brom owner owes them £5 million and despite assurances as yet no sign of repaying it and as we know they have taken out a wonga type £20 million loan just to get through this season, the fear there is he is hanging around waiting to trouser any parachute money or even promotion money.

We should be grateful for our now seemingly positive just in time position and of course a management team most in our division are enviable of.

Was it last season (maybe season before), when Swansea had Ayew on £90k a week ?
Madness.

slowpoke · Mar 11, 2023

I think that centre half they have loaned in from West Brom can’t remember his name is the second highest earner at Albion, good player actually kept our Vic a bit quieter than most.

slowpoke · Mar 11, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Bristol city over 70 million in debt

WBA getting payday loans

What's the list about ?

And I believe Bristol have a billionaire Bristol City loving owner.

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