Changing the system (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 6, 2018

Pressley did it after a half decent season, that then saw the star striker leave.

Didn't go fabulously.

Now... we wait and see this season (we might still go back to it!), but I do have a certain theory that making systems too complicated for lower league players makes it harder for them - a simple 4-4-2 may not win you games in the top flight nowadays, but it scores goals and creates chances in the lower league... and makes mediocre strikers look better than they maybe are.

So... we wait and see, but what's wrong with a 4-4-2?

Harry_Walker · Aug 6, 2018

because we can't accommodate our best players in a 4-4-2, where would Andreu play? Where would Bayliss play? Who would be our two strikers?

covcity4life · Aug 6, 2018

We didn't play that differently to last year really bar andreu being more of attacking midfielder rather than striker

Don't think tactic cost us.

CCFC_Charlie · Aug 6, 2018

Why would we play a formation that doesn’t play to the strengths of our best player?

djr8369 · Aug 6, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Pressley did it after a half decent season, that then saw the star striker leave.

Didn't go fabulously.

Now... we wait and see this season (we might still go back to it!), but I do have a certain theory that making systems too complicated for lower league players makes it harder for them - a simple 4-4-2 may not win you games in the top flight nowadays, but it scores goals and creates chances in the lower league... and makes mediocre strikers look better than they maybe are.

So... we wait and see, but what's wrong with a 4-4-2?

I think a 4-4-2 doesn’t really accommodate Andreu. Also we have a lot of midfielders but few natural wide players so 4-2-3-1 suits us better in that sense.

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Deleted member 5849 · Aug 6, 2018

CCFC_Charlie said:
Why would we play a formation that doesn’t play to the strengths of our best player?

Why would you change a system for one player?

What if that player gets injured?

CCFC_Charlie · Aug 6, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Why would you change a system for one player?

What if that player gets injured?

Because he’s our best player and he’s not currently injured? Why would you change a system to the detriment of your best player just in case they get injured in the future?

Nick · Aug 6, 2018

Id play andreu just behind the front 2.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 6, 2018

CCFC_Charlie said:
Because he’s our best player and he’s not currently injured? Why would you change a system to the detriment of your best player just in case they get injured in the future?

I'd focus on the team, not one man. Because then you're in danger of squeezing a bunch of forwards into positions they're not overly comfortable with, and having defenders less assured than they otherwise might be.

Greggs · Aug 6, 2018

Nick said:
Id play andreu just behind the front 2.

Perhaps a shout, until Jones and Allasani are ready at least.

shmmeee · Aug 6, 2018

The answer is clearly a diamond. 442 and allows Andreu to play in the hole.

You're welcome. Now, onto the Middle East.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 6, 2018

djr8369 said:
I think a 4-4-2 doesn’t really accommodate Andreu. Also we have a lot of midfielders but few natural wide players so 4-2-3-1 suits us better in that sense.

The reason we have lots of central midfielders is, of course, because we've stocked up on them. Do we have *that* many who'd be automatic first teamers anyway? Bayliss, Doyle (ageing, one year has to be when he fades) Ogogo, Kelly (not sure he'd be an automatic starter, anyway at this level?) and then a bunch of futures. The others are about to develop, aren't they? Isn't there a space for Andreu behind two forwards, rather than one? Or playing him as a number 10, while still having two traditional wide players?

We also seem to be stocking up on strikers too, mind you.You could argue if we end up with 5-6 strikers at the club, playing just one of them is more overkill than our midfield situation.

vow · Aug 6, 2018

Didn't we play a kinda narrow 442 with Shipley and Bayliss as the wide-ish player's in second half of the season?

shmmeee · Aug 6, 2018

vow said:
Didn't we play a kinda narrow 442 with Shipley and Bayliss as the wide-ish player's in second half of the season?

Not according to Grendel and Nick, it was 4312 (yes I thought so)

skyblueelephant76 · Aug 6, 2018

We could go 4312 with the fullbacks providing the width.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 6, 2018

vow said:
Didn't we play a kinda narrow 442 with Shipley and Bayliss as the wide-ish player's in second half of the season?

We did, sort of. And tbh as that worked, why not do the same again?

The days of the all-out-winger in full flight died in the early 70s bar the odd exception (Hutchison being one!) so it's not overly radical to have wide midfielders rather than out and out wingers.

My main concern is getting players of a lower league level to learn new systems, when we ended up getting ours tweaked to do alright last season by the end of it. Now it *might* be one step back to take two forward if so... but we'd probably best stop signing centre forwards pretty sharpish if so!

vow · Aug 6, 2018

shmmeee said:
The answer is clearly a diamond. 442 and allows Andreu to play in the hole.

You're welcome. Now, onto the Middle East.

Wow, too many options now!
Robin's won't change 2 in the middle I reckon, if he did though would it be Doyle or ogogo to be dropped?!

Nick · Aug 6, 2018

shmmeee said:
The answer is clearly a diamond. 442 and allows Andreu to play in the hole.

You're welcome. Now, onto the Middle East.

Only thing that worries me with that is not as much protection on the back 4.

It would rely on the 2 wider players (Bayliss and AN Other) to really help out defensively.

djr8369 · Aug 6, 2018

vow said:
Didn't we play a kinda narrow 442 with Shipley and Bayliss as the wide-ish player's in second half of the season?

Yeah but as that is not their natural positions is it wise to do so in a higher league?

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djr8369 · Aug 6, 2018

shmmeee said:
The answer is clearly a diamond. 442 and allows Andreu to play in the hole.

You're welcome. Now, onto the Middle East.

Who are the wide players though? Also means one holding midfielder to shield the defence rather than 2 like on Saturday.

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shmmeee · Aug 6, 2018

Nick said:
Only thing that worries me with that is not as much protection on the back 4.

It would rely on the 2 wider players (Bayliss and AN Other) to really help out defensively.

It's a moving puzzle though isn't it? If we want more attacking players in the side (two upfront plus a man in the hole) we've got to lose something defensively.

vow · Aug 6, 2018

djr8369 said:
Yeah but as that is not their natural positions is it wise to do so in a higher league?

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Don't see why not, as it worked v well last season in their "unnatural positions" and I certainly have faith in both to not let the team down.

djr8369 · Aug 6, 2018

vow said:
Don't see why not, as it worked v well last season in their "unnatural positions" and I certainly have faith in both to not let the team down.

I suppose they have JJ, Allassani and maybe Hiwula and Andreu as competition so maybe that is the plan.

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Deleted member 5849 · Aug 6, 2018

vow said:
Don't see why not, as it worked v well last season in their "unnatural positions" and I certainly have faith in both to not let the team down.

It's also the case that Shipley's starting the season at least as backup, so he's not considered good enough for a central role as of yet, anyway.

djr8369 · Aug 6, 2018

It’s certainly going to be interesting as there’s no obvious system we should play based on the players in the squad.

One strength of the side might be that the system can be changed depending on opposition and available players.

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Limey · Aug 6, 2018

In terms of L1 the squad looks to have a superb level of technical ability combined with some pace and power.
If MR can mould these together I think we will be an extremely tidy team.
I expect a 4-3-3 switching between 4-5-1 tact.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 6, 2018

djr8369 said:
One strength of the side might be that the system can be changed depending on opposition and available players.

If they can do that, great.

Grendel · Aug 6, 2018

Nick said:
Only thing that worries me with that is not as much protection on the back 4.

It would rely on the 2 wider players (Bayliss and AN Other) to really help out defensively.

It will never work when Jones is fit as he hasn't got the defensive attributes

Also you can't really see how you'd be able to fit two of Doyle, Ogogu and Kelly into it either

ceetee · Aug 6, 2018

skyblueelephant76 said:
We could go 4312 with the fullbacks providing the width.

We sort of played that at the end of last season but nobody covered Grimmer when he was forward so he had to cover back himself. Consequently he was criticised for his defending and struggled to last 90 minutes

stupot07 · Aug 6, 2018

I think you make a good point NW. Robins does seem to be signing players and trying to fit a system around them, rather than buying players that fit into a system.

If McNulty was here, would Robins be shunting him outside, despite him scoring the vast majority of his goals playing down the middle with Biamou.

I like Andreu, but if he is going to play a no. 10 then we have to get runner in behind Biamou. On Saturday, everything was played in front of the back four and we often overplayed it.

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