Club aims to raise £35m from bond (13 Viewers)

Noggin · Apr 27, 2015

Nick said:
I thought it was just SISU that is milking clubs, taking money out etc etc.

Imagine if she publicly asked people for some money to pay herself back.

You make it sound like people have a problem with others getting a return on their investment, that isn't true, people have a problem with sisu getting a return whilst deliberately crushing the club for their own ends, had sisu actually had the clubs well being at heart, brought us a stadium, invested in the team and were running the club properly and they issued bonds to repay debts including some to themselves and to get more money to invest in the team/stadium etc we'd have had no issue with it, unless it appeared to be putting the club in more risk. I still wouldn't invest in it though.

Grendel · Apr 27, 2015

Noggin said:
You make it sound like people have a problem with others getting a return on their investment, that isn't true, people have a problem with sisu getting a return whilst deliberately crushing the club for their own ends, had sisu actually had the clubs well being at heart, brought us a stadium, invested in the team and were running the club properly and they issued bonds to repay debts including some to themselves and to get more money to invest in the team/stadium etc we'd have had no issue with it, unless it appeared to be putting the club in more risk. I still wouldn't invest in it though.

You missed one teeny little bit out their didn't you?

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2015

Noggin said:
You make it sound like people have a problem with others getting a return on their investment.

I have a big problem with people getting a financial return on something emotional and cultural...

torchomatic · Apr 27, 2015

Yes, me too. Anything that has emotion attached should be out of bounds for financial sharks.

Deleted member 5849 said:
I have a big problem with people getting a financial return on something emotional and cultural...

Noggin · Apr 27, 2015

Grendel said:
You missed one teeny little bit out their didn't you?

you mean moving wasps? Wasps fans have every right to have a problem with him getting a return on his investment after moving the club. I don't see what that has to do with whether or not we would be happy for sisu to get a return on their investment by asking people for money.

torchomatic · Apr 27, 2015

There was a chance for Wasps to return near to where they were born and bred, but they decided against it. A Centre of Sports Excellence is being planned for Borehamwood, about 10 miles north of Wasps' old home (now a housing estate) in Sudbury, near Wembley.

The Premiership club were invited in as partners by the landowners, Legal & General, and the local Hertsmere Borough Council, with a 15,000-seater stadium worth £22 million and a hotel on site for added revenue. But Wasps wanted to own and control it. End of deal.

Noggin said:
you mean moving wasps?

Noggin · Apr 27, 2015

so? what do wasps have to do with what I said, people having a problem with sisu getting a return on their investment is completely because of how sisu have been willing to destroy the club for their own ends. Had sisu actually had our best interests at heart we'd have no issue with them getting a return.

Ian1779 · Apr 27, 2015

Noggin said:
You make it sound like people have a problem with others getting a return on their investment, that isn't true, people have a problem with sisu getting a return whilst deliberately crushing the club for their own ends, had sisu actually had the clubs well being at heart, brought us a stadium, invested in the team and were running the club properly and they issued bonds to repay debts including some to themselves and to get more money to invest in the team/stadium etc we'd have had no issue with it, unless it appeared to be putting the club in more risk. I still wouldn't invest in it though.

SISU didn't deliberately set out to crush our club, they have just done a spectacularly shit job of trying to get a return on their investment (unless of course Joy is secretly a Sunderland fan and she's still pissed about 1977)

Whilst some people are no doubt eulogizing about the fantastic deal that Wasps got... it was the one deal that had SISU managed to get (and not fuck up) which would have probably seen a far hastier exit from them than we will see now.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2015

Noggin said:
Had sisu actually had our best interests at heart we'd have no issue with them getting a return.

Again, you are not speaking for me.

To have the interests of a cultural, social, sporting entity and its fans at heart... the owners cannot be aiming for a financial return for themselves.

Noggin · Apr 27, 2015

Ian1779 said:
SISU didn't deliberately set out to crush our club, they have just done a spectacularly shit job of trying to get a return on their investment (unless of course Joy is secretly a Sunderland fan and she's still pissed about 1977)

Whilst some people are no doubt eulogizing about the fantastic deal that Wasps got... it was the one deal that had SISU managed to get (and not fuck up) which would have probably seen a far hastier exit from them than we will see now.

I agree that sisu didn't set out to crush the club, they arn't evil, they didn't take us over to destroy us that would be ludicrous but when plan A failed they did end up coming upon a plan that involved deliberately crushing the club. They knew full well the damage they were going to do when moving to Northampton.

Noggin · Apr 27, 2015

anyway I'm off, I enjoy talking about savings and investments but this is very quickly becoming the same nonsense debate that I said I was never going to get involved in again.

Moff · Apr 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
I find it interesting that with the money, richardson will pay himself half the money wasps owe him (£10m).....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Perhaps he might give Ann Lucas a £1 million bonus for her part in Wasps takeover, she will need the cash to pay for the removal of one of her two faces.

Nick · Apr 27, 2015

Moff said:
Perhaps he might give Ann Lucas a £1 million bonus for her part in Wasps takeover, she will need the cash to pay for the removal of one of her two faces.

Or a few Sky Blues Talk members from her arse. Dongo has gone a bit quiet

Terry Gibson's perm · Apr 27, 2015

It does seem to be a nice gesture from Wasps allowing the local people to invest in something that they owned already before it was virtualy given away :facepalm:

oldskyblue58 · Apr 27, 2015

"Otium Entertainment Group Limited has executed a licence with a four year term, commencing 21 August 2014 for Coventry City Football Club to play professional football matches at the Arena. There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016."

I know this is a thread about Wasps raising funds. But is anyone concerned about where this one highlighted sentence leaves CCFC?

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
"Otium Entertainment Group Limited has executed a licence with a four year term, commencing 21 August 2014 for Coventry City Football Club to play professional football matches at the Arena. There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016."

I know this is a thread about Wasps raising funds. But is anyone concerned about where this one highlighted sentence leaves CCFC?

Now you raise it then... yes!

Might indeed deserve a new thread though

Terry Gibson's perm · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
"Otium Entertainment Group Limited has executed a licence with a four year term, commencing 21 August 2014 for Coventry City Football Club to play professional football matches at the Arena. There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016."

I know this is a thread about Wasps raising funds. But is anyone concerned about where this one highlighted sentence leaves CCFC?

That is not a good sign off to Northampton we go either that or Tim needs to get some builders in sharpish!

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
That is not a good sign off to Northampton we go either that or Tim needs to get some builders in sharpish!

Perhaps his plan is to buy a bunch of £2,000 bonds secured against a stadium...

Moff · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
"Otium Entertainment Group Limited has executed a licence with a four year term, commencing 21 August 2014 for Coventry City Football Club to play professional football matches at the Arena. There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016."

I know this is a thread about Wasps raising funds. But is anyone concerned about where this one highlighted sentence leaves CCFC?

Dont worry the Council will have it all sorted, you know the one who desperately wanted the football club in its home city.......

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 27, 2015

Thing I don't really understand, is why are Wasps making out this makes them the richest rugby club in the world by effectively taking a loan.

It's like me applying for a bunch of those pay day quick loans, and then splashing the cash on a lavish lifestyle and pretending I'm a millionaire.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 27, 2015

tie "There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016." in to the fact breakeven on CCFC matches is 11k crowds and this prospectus indicates crowd averages 7333 then I think CCFC fans should be a damn site more concerned about CCFC finances and financial plans whether or not Wasps manage to place a minimum of 25m retail bonds

- across the financial market that 25m is not even a drop in the ocean and those investing will do it on the basis of the prospectus or simply that their risk profile is higher than most and a punt of a few thousand or more is neither here nor there to them. It isn't, as has been reported, going to fans to get them to invest. Some fans will but this is aimed at a far greater investor pool

But the implications for CCFC are immediate. If a business cant break even on a particular sector of its business then the business might look to cut that part of the business. The first opportunity to do that seems to be August 2016 and CCFC have very little with which to bargain. Oh and it wont be that they will tell them to go it will be "we tried everything but CCFC simply could not afford a market rate for the facilities they require and have to look for alternatives its their decision to go"

I think CCFC fans should focus on what is important to them - CCFC

stupot07 · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
"Otium Entertainment Group Limited has executed a licence with a four year term, commencing 21 August 2014 for Coventry City Football Club to play professional football matches at the Arena. There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016."

I know this is a thread about Wasps raising funds. But is anyone concerned about where this one highlighted sentence leaves CCFC?

I wouldn't worry, wasps promised they wouldn't do anything that would be detrimental to CCFC or CRFC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 27, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Correct they wanted to move here so should fund it themselves if they can't afford it they shouldn't have bought it.

Correct if they couldn't afford to buy it they shouldn't have bought us :thinking about:Sorry on the wrong thread:facepalm:

oldskyblue58 · Apr 27, 2015

Moff said:
Dont worry the Council will have it all sorted, you know the one who desperately wanted the football club in its home city.......

I know that was tongue in cheek Moff but I have no faith/trust in CCC, and in any case it is no longer in their hands to make those decisions

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
I think CCFC fans should focus on what is important to them - CCFC

Things don't happen in isolation.

To ignore the happenings at other entities tid in, at whatever level, to the club is to ignore large swathes of context.

And that contxt often structures and phrases the future.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 27, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
It does seem to be a nice gesture from Wasps allowing the local people to invest in something that they owned already before it was virtualy given away :facepalm:

I think they're great giving the people who gave their shares away a chance to get something back.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
I wouldn't worry, wasps promised they wouldn't do anything that would be detrimental to CCFC or CRFC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

whilst they are here in CCFC's case ...........

chiefdave · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
"Otium Entertainment Group Limited has executed a licence with a four year term, commencing 21 August 2014 for Coventry City Football Club to play professional football matches at the Arena. There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016."

I know this is a thread about Wasps raising funds. But is anyone concerned about where this one highlighted sentence leaves CCFC?

I wouldn't worry OSB, Ann told us it would all be fine.

Wasps Chief Exec said:
These bonds are going to put the Ricoh Arena and everyone associated with the arena on a secure long-term financial platform

Are we getting a cut or have they forgotten we play there again?

Terry Gibson's perm · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
tie "There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016." in to the fact breakeven on CCFC matches is 11k crowds and this prospectus indicates crowd averages 7333 then I think CCFC fans should be a damn site more concerned about CCFC finances and financial plans whether or not Wasps manage to place a minimum of 25m retail bonds

- across the financial market that 25m is not even a drop in the ocean and those investing will do it on the basis of the prospectus or simply that their risk profile is higher than most and a punt of a few thousand or more is neither hear nor there to them. It isn't, as has been reported, going to fans to get them to invest. Some fans will but this is aimed at a far greater investor pool

But the implications for CCFC are immediate. If a business cant break even on a particular sector of its business then the business might look to cut that part of the business. The first opportunity to do that seems to be August 2016 and CCFC have very little with which to bargain. Oh and it wont be that they will tell them to go it will be "we tried everything but CCFC simply could not afford a market rate for the facilities they require and have to look for alternatives its their decision to go"

I think CCFC fans should focus on what is important to them - CCFC

I am not sure that there is a lot we can do about either the Wasps business will go on and we are in the hands of Tim and the ace negotiator Waggott the man who brought us home on this deal. I think they really need to get a move on and find some land I was always against moving from The Ricoh but I think I would even be happyish to move out of the City as there is no space to build here.

stupot07 · Apr 27, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
I am not sure that there is a lot we can do about either the Wasps business will go on and we are in the hands of Tim and the ace negotiator Waggott the man who brought us home on this deal. I think they really need to get a move on and find some land I was always against moving from The Ricoh but I think I would even be happyish to move out of the City as there is no space to build here.

A boycott of wasps by all CCFC fans would be a start.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Terry Gibson's perm · Apr 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
A boycott of wasps by all CCFC fans would be a start.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I am on that already but I think some on here would miss their beloved Wasps

oldskyblue58 · Apr 27, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Things don't happen in isolation.

To ignore the happenings at other entities tid in, at whatever level, to the club is to ignore large swathes of context.

And that contxt often structures and phrases the future.

understand that NW and the background is important but unless there is a CCFC proper plan to go forward financially, that we can buy in to, then it wont actually matter. Whilst we seem to spend a lot of energy on here over Wasps, CCFC slips further and further towards financial oblivion. Somebody tell me how CCFC gets out of ever dwindling income which impacts on the ability to afford what we have and it seems doesn't meet the commercial levels expected by our landlords, who may choose to cut the deal in 1 or 3 years time. I do not see how it works in the present set up even if we stay in L1 to be honest. Where does the impetus come from to succeed?

Nick · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
understand that NW and the background is important but unless there is a CCFC proper plan to go forward financially, that we can buy in to, then it wont actually matter. Whilst we seem to spend a lot of energy on here over Wasps, CCFC slips further and further towards financial oblivion. Somebody tell me how CCFC gets out of ever dwindling income which impacts on the ability to afford what we have and it seems doesn't meet the commercial levels expected by our landlords. I do not see how it works in the present set up even if we stay in L1 to be honest

They need to issue some bonds to build a new stadium and buy Joy a new handbag!

stupot07 · Apr 27, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
understand that NW and the background is important but unless there is a CCFC proper plan to go forward financially, that we can buy in to, then it wont actually matter. Whilst we seem to spend a lot of energy on here over Wasps, CCFC slips further and further towards financial oblivion. Somebody tell me how CCFC gets out of ever dwindling income which impacts on the ability to afford what we have and it seems doesn't meet the commercial levels expected by our landlords, who may choose to cut the deal in 1 or 3 years time. I do not see how it works in the present set up even if we stay in L1 to be honest. Where does the impetus come from to succeed?

Yep. We're onto a loser. Break even if we get 11k in what we consider an underfunded squad, which means Sisu will need to put money in to fund losses. with that as a backdrop us fans expect more investment, a better squad, and cheaper tickets. The downward spiral continues.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Ian1779 · Apr 27, 2015

Terry Gibson's perm said:
I am not sure that there is a lot we can do about either the Wasps business will go on and we are in the hands of Tim and the ace negotiator Waggott the man who brought us home on this deal. I think they really need to get a move on and find some land I was always against moving from The Ricoh but I think I would even be happyish to move out of the City as there is no space to build here.

The position to negotiate might be moot. It appears that ACL/Wasps could cut us loose at the end of the season and we will have no control of it.

Wasps don't fall under the jurisdiction of the FL or the FA, and no-one at CCC cares nor can do anything anyway.

What then........?

Club aims to raise £35m from bond (13 Viewers)

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