Conspiracy Question (2 Viewers)

SkyBlueZack · Mar 14, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Signing Mowbray, giving him control of the playing budget, signing top flight loanees, and signing a superstar England International of not long ago?

All part of the cunning plan. Heard it from a friend of Joy's goldfish

Otis · Mar 14, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Signing Mowbray, giving him control of the playing budget, signing top flight loanees, and signing a superstar England International of not long ago?

Pretty sure Peter Ramage never played for England, NW.

Chipfat · Mar 14, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Signing Mowbray, giving him control of the playing budget, signing top flight loanees, and signing a superstar England International of not long ago?

Do you think they have planned or have the money to compete in the championship?.. Anderson said yeah promotion this year or next, JS said we need to build and own a stadium, Anderson said we dont need to own one in the same week!!!. What plan do they have other than bringing academy lads in and trying to make a profit on transfers, while sitting still and bringing the budget down.

As for TM having control of the budget, i think that is no longer the case. If asked TM would of said dont sell Maddison, let me trim the wage bill or let certain players go to be able to fund the miscalucation on the budget by the owners. Instead its Anderson selling and bring ing in 2 loans and telling TM to deal with it, i know its old ground but this is not a football forward thinking ownership, its a business ownership.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 14, 2016

Chipfat said:
Do you think they have planned or have the money to compete in the championship?

I'd think if they weren't trying to get promotion they wouldn't have signed Mowbray, wouldn't have given him control over the playing budget, wouldn't have signed top flight loanees, and wouldn't have signed Joe Cole.

After all, Pressley did pretty well at Sixfields with Conor Thomas, Aaron Phillips et al, all of whom were still here to use instead of signing replacements...

There are many reasons to suggest the club is run poorly, but the very fact of bringing in extra players (as Fortune has never been a starter, we could have used Tudgay more. As Maddison was injured we brought Kent in - we could have just stuck with Lameiras week in week out) says this is a conspiracy theory too far.

SkyBlueZack · Mar 14, 2016

Ahhhh right. That's why O'brien didn't start. Lameires too. Mowbray didn't want them. They were bought for him. Anderson is making the decisions based on stats. That's why we signed ramage and hunt....

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 14, 2016

In fact, Mowbray's whole transfer policy has been short term. If we were really running a Crewe model, we'd have seen the likes of George Thomas pop up far more than he has.

dadgad · Mar 14, 2016

It is obvious that the sisu model is to mark time. They have no ambition. Mowbray has had the wool pulled over his eyes and been unlucky. If by some miracle he manages to get us promoted fans will think him Messiah but the owners won't thank him.

Samo · Mar 14, 2016

dadgad said:
It is obvious that the sisu model is to mark time. They have no ambition. Mowbray has had the wool pulled over his eyes and been unlucky. If by some miracle he manages to get us promoted fans will think him Messiah but the owners won't thank him.

Mark time with a view to what? Is that also obvious to you?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 14, 2016

Chipfat said:
Do you think they have planned or have the money to compete in the championship?.. Anderson said yeah promotion this year or next, JS said we need to build and own a stadium, Anderson said we dont need to own one in the same week!!!. What plan do they have other than bringing academy lads in and trying to make a profit on transfers, while sitting still and bringing the budget down.

As for TM having control of the budget, i think that is no longer the case. If asked TM would of said dont sell Maddison, let me trim the wage bill or let certain players go to be able to fund the miscalucation on the budget by the owners. Instead its Anderson selling and bring ing in 2 loans and telling TM to deal with it, i know its old ground but this is not a football forward thinking ownership, its a business ownership.

Obviously Mowbray had little say on Maddison but its horse shit to say he has had the incoming players like Stephens and Cargill forced on him by Anderson

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 14, 2016

Some of our fans talk some absolute tripe

Nick · Mar 14, 2016

CCFC said:
Obviously Mowbray had little say on Maddison but its horse shit to say he has had the incoming players like Stephens and Cargill forced on him by Anderson

If they were bad they were forced on him, if Good he picked them

Chipfat · Mar 14, 2016

CCFC said:
Obviously Mowbray had little say on Maddison but its horse shit to say he has had the incoming players like Stephens and Cargill forced on him by Anderson

Its not the players that were forced on him it was we have sold Maddison, we are not going to tell all the fans till 11pm on transfer deadline day. So in effect no time, no money to go and replace but dont worry 2 of the names you gave me on a list are signing on loan. If you think that is horseshit then fine, if you think this is not how sisu are running it then fine, but year after year the policy is the same and the player budget is getting smaller.

Chipfat · Mar 14, 2016

CCFC said:
Some of our fans talk some absolute tripe

Tell me then what is the long term plan of our owners? tell me why very few seniors have long term deals and tell me why 6 out of 7 youth kids are giving pro contracts. TM will have a smaller playing budget next year and will deal again in loans, this is not owners looking with a aim in mind, this is hope we strike it lucky but if not we will sell our best player to fund the wheel of bullshit they sell you.

Again if thats tripe, answer where is the progression, plan and pathway to a higher level, i dont believe in any conspiracy. But i certainly don't believe in our owners to provide success on and off the field, unless Crewe model is what they have in mind which is really the answer to the OP.

johnwillomagic · Mar 14, 2016

I'd be surprised with our squad depth at the moment if we do not have a higher playing budget this year to last season?

SlowerThanPlatt · Mar 14, 2016

Chipfat said:
Tell me then what is the long term plan of our owners? tell me why very few seniors have long term deals and tell me why 6 out of 7 youth kids are giving pro contracts. TM will have a smaller playing budget next year and will deal again in loans, this is not owners looking with a aim in mind, this is hope we strike it lucky but if not we will sell our best player to fund the wheel of bullshit they sell you.

Again if thats tripe, answer where is the progression, plan and pathway to a higher level, i dont believe in any conspiracy. But i certainly don't believe in our owners to provide success on and off the field, unless Crewe model is what they have in mind which is really the answer to the OP.

Can't answer the other questions but the 6 kids were offered professional contracts because they've impressed enough over the course of the two years they've been a scholar. The same happens at every club. It would be completely pointless to run an academy where none of the players get offered professional terms.

johnwillomagic · Mar 14, 2016

Bang on Slower Than Platt on the youngsters - reward hard work and if one or two make the grade great news and cheap initially of course. A club like ours I think now has to bring players through the academy.

Seniors not on long term contracts is beneficial to all - would only have players on 2-3 years contracts max and most 1-2 years.
It works better for both parties and should in theory keep players hungry to impress!

wingy · Mar 14, 2016

In theory fine.
Yet that was the model SP was operating.
Would he have kept us up?
The owners didn't think so and have allowed TM to operate a different model.
Does that lay the academy output redundant?

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 14, 2016

wingy said:
In theory fine.
Yet that was the model SP was operating.
Would he have kept us up?
The owners didn't think so and have allowed TM to operate a different model.
Does that lay the academy output redundant?

It's a worry, for sure.

In the true tradition of choosing a football manager however, bet the next one is a thoughtful coach, who's renowned for long term plans and bringing through the yoof!

wingy · Mar 14, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's a worry, for sure.

In the true tradition of choosing a football manager however, bet the next one is a thoughtful coach, who's renowned for long term plans and bringing through the yoof!

No doubt NW.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 14, 2016

SlowerThanPlatt said:
Can't answer the other questions but the 6 kids were offered professional contracts because they've impressed enough over the course of the two years they've been a scholar. The same happens at every club. It would be completely pointless to run an academy where none of the players get offered professional terms.

Don't entertain him, if we had signed zero academy players then Chipfat would be leading the arguments about SISU neglecting the academy who are the heart of the club.

Chipfat · Mar 14, 2016

CCFC said:
Don't entertain him, if we had signed zero academy players then Chipfat would be leading the arguments about SISU neglecting the academy who are the heart of the club.

I'm not saying that putting money into the academy is a bad thing, i also didn't say running a club on a Crewe model is a bad either did i. I also mentioned i don't believe in a conspiracy that the owners are influencing games not to gain promotion. What i did post is, i'm not sure or have seen any evidence that the owners are ready or want promotion under the current plan.

I also don't doubt the 6 kids given pro contracts haven't worked hard but for 6 out of the 7 scholers to get pro is very high. If you look at teams at higher level 1% get contracts others are let go. So although im not complaining or blaming Sisu, for me it shows the owners direction.

So CCFC tell me where you see evidence that shows different, or is it easier to ridicule or belittle someones opinion.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 14, 2016

Chipfat said:
I'm not saying that putting money into the academy is a bad thing, i also didn't say running a club on a Crewe model is a bad either did i. I also mentioned i don't believe in a conspiracy that the owners are influencing games not to gain promotion. What i did post is, i'm not sure or have seen any evidence that the owners are ready or want promotion under the current plan.

I also don't doubt the 6 kids given contracts haven't worked hard and i also don't doubt like RCC we will see 1 or 2 during next season from the likes of Kelly Evans, Stevenson or Harries the year before's pro's. But if you have an opinion my post instead of ridicule CCFC answer or show me where progression is being made or stated for a long term plan other than funding the academy. 6 out of 7 scholer's is a very high ratio of pro contracts that is not the normal i would suspect at higher level teams.

We're not a higher level team, some of them will probably be released without ever playing a first team minute anyway and will just be there to make up the U21 numbers.

When I said some people talk tripe I didn't even specifically quote or say you anyway. I think a lot of what you said was rubbish but the only thing I really had an issue with in your post was when you said 'As for TM having control of the budget, i think that is no longer the case. If asked TM would of said dont sell Maddison, let me trim the wage bill or let certain players go to be able to fund the miscalucation on the budget by the owners. Instead its Anderson selling and bring ing in 2 loans and telling TM to deal with it'
Basically saying it was Anderson who is now and deciding to who we sell and buy, it was obvious the Maddison sale went above the managers head but I see no evidence that Mowbray has lost control of the budget.

SlowerThanPlatt · Mar 14, 2016

Bournemouth offered 7. Birmingham offered 7 (possibly 8). Both are higher level teams.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 14, 2016

SlowerThanPlatt said:
Bournemouth offered 7. Birmingham offered 7 (possibly 8). Both are higher level teams.

When we won the cup we took on eight of the youth team that season, I think.

Chipfat · Mar 15, 2016

I really hope we are not taking on 6 kids to make up numbers, its supposed to be a pro club, not jumpers down 1st to 10 wins. But again i'm talking rubbish, yet i still don't see a plan to play at the level above. The OP was about are the club stopping promotion, i answered i don't believe any such conspiracy within the club, i however do not see a plan to compete any higher level we are not set up for it on or off the field.

SkyBlueZack · Mar 15, 2016

There is only a handful of clubs that don't have to sell players. Arsenal make a profit. Own their own stadiun. Have a worldwide fan base. Biggest match day income in the premiership. Yet sold van persie to united? Sold nasri and adebayor to man city? It's not cos we're ccfc or cos we're in league one or cos sisu own us. It happens. Money talks. Also since maddison was sold he's hardly set the world alight. I personally don't think he shone that much before being sold. I appreciate he was injured for a while. Just that how some on here go on you would think he's our very own Messi. Just to clarify, he's not.

Sick Boy · Mar 15, 2016

Chipfat said:
I really hope we are not taking on 6 kids to make up numbers, its supposed to be a pro club, not jumpers down 1st to 10 wins. But again i'm talking rubbish, yet i still don't see a plan to play at the level above. The OP was about are the club stopping promotion, i answered i don't believe any such conspiracy within the club, i however do not see a plan to compete any higher level we are not set up for it on or off the field.

We won't ever compete at a higher level while we are are renting a ground from a franchise rugby club.

It got one over sisu, so look at the bigger picture. In 20 years we will be knocking around the lower leagues but at least we can always look back at the biggest victory in our history. #upthecouncil

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 15, 2016

Chipfat said:
I really hope we are not taking on 6 kids to make up numbers, its supposed to be a pro club, not jumpers down 1st to 10 wins.

I doubt that is why we are taking them on but the harsh reality is that out of the 6, at least a couple of them will not develop in the way hoped and will probably not play a single minute of first team football and only play U21 football.

But by all means you just continue twisting everything into a negative, I'm sure you will find something in this post to twist into your anti ccfc agenda

Chipfat · Mar 15, 2016

CCFC said:
I doubt that is why we are taking them on but the harsh reality is that out of the 6, at least a couple of them will not develop in the way hoped and will probably not play a single minute of first team football and only play U21 football.

But by all means you just continue twisting everything into a negative, I'm sure you will find something in this post to twist into your anti ccfc agenda

Its not twisting any negative, show me where i have said its wrong to put more into the academy or where i have said its wrong to give 6 out of 7 kids pro contracts. You will not answer my question though, where have you seen evidence the club is not running a Crewe based program. I dont blame Sisu, i dont like Sisu, but if this is the only option they have to them fair play to them. Its better to have a club stable off the field to create foundations to build and push with structure to a higher level, then finding yourself in a position where you cannot compete as a club.

Honesty is where i struggle with Sisu no matter how you turn it they cant keep on the same track with owners and directors making conflicting comments, that is a negative in any business.

Chipfat · Mar 15, 2016

Sick Boy said:
We won't ever compete at a higher level while we are are renting a ground from a franchise rugby club.

It got one over sisu, so look at the bigger picture. In 20 years we will be knocking around the lower leagues but at least we can always look back at the biggest victory in our history. #upthecouncil

I dont see a path to getting out of this, i said it multiple times, Sisu have got into this business without any considerastion of how this business works. Its 8 years and they still are not sure what the fuck to do with us that is the bigger picture, im being accused of spinning all into negative. But as of yet i have asked multiple times what is the plan Sisu have, only to get misdirected onto other issues. I get asked, i answer, i ask, i get shot down as a moaner or being naive.

Colin Steins Smile · Mar 15, 2016

Chipfat said:
I dont see a path to getting out of this, i said it multiple times, Sisu have got into this business without any considerastion of how this business works. Its 8 years and they still are not sure what the fuck to do with us that is the bigger picture, im being accused of spinning all into negative. But as of yet i have asked multiple times what is the plan Sisu have and get misdirected onto other issues. I get asked, i answer, i ask, i get shot down as a moaner or being naive.

I agree - I have seen no evidence of a 4 - 8 year plan for our club, apart from stumbling along with short term actions

dadgad · Mar 15, 2016

Chipfat said:
I dont see a path to getting out of this, i said it multiple times, Sisu have got into this business without any considerastion of how this business works. Its 8 years and they still are not sure what the fuck to do with us that is the bigger picture, im being accused of spinning all into negative. But as of yet i have asked multiple times what is the plan Sisu have and get misdirected onto other issues. I get asked, i answer, i ask, i get shot down as a moaner or being naive.

Yep, and the other narrative consistently pointed out by those intellectuals is that they are so intelligent.

Chipfat · Mar 15, 2016

If the club came out with a plan other than showing massive contradictions about our future, i would understand opinions of criticism being a negative. But this is not the case, within a week 3 people with understanding of the club disagreed about the stadium process, so if they dont know what they are doing off the field how can they know whats going on with the playing side. They have shown they will invest in youth in hope the next Maddison, Wilson or even Christie for that matter comes along, and while i except Maddison is no Messi, he was our most valuble asset.

So if the model is devolpe and sell to feed the running of the club i have no problem with it, but then say it dont pretend championship is the aim, because that comes without doubt more investment in experienced players that wil need more that a 6 month deals to sign. This is my problem and this is where our owners do not, will not have the backing to do so, they just need to be honest about the path way. I want promotion but if this club is not strong enough off the field then trouble will hit us even harder in the league above as you are forced to break the budget to compete.

Sick Boy · Mar 15, 2016

Chipfat said:
I dont see a path to getting out of this, i said it multiple times, Sisu have got into this business without any considerastion of how this business works. Its 8 years and they still are not sure what the fuck to do with us that is the bigger picture, im being accused of spinning all into negative. But as of yet i have asked multiple times what is the plan Sisu have, only to get misdirected onto other issues. I get asked, i answer, i ask, i get shot down as a moaner or being naive.

If we were any other business we would have been shut down a long time ago. Listening to the usual dullards you'd think that before sisu came in we were well run. They have simply kept us going past our natural lifetime.

More and more I am beginning to think the club should be shut down as I'm not sure sections of our support deserve a club to support. Let them get on with supporting a franchise and the back slapping.

lifeskyblue · Mar 15, 2016

Sick Boy said:
If we were any other business we would have been shut down a long time ago. Listening to the usual dullards you'd think that before sisu came in we were well run. They have simply kept us going past our natural lifetime.

More and more I am beginning to think the club should be shut down as I'm not sure sections of our support deserve a club to support. Let them get on with supporting a franchise and the back slapping.

'The club should be shut down as I'm not sure sections of our support deserve a club to support'. What complete and utter nonsense. Close a football club down because YOU believe some don't deserve a club. That's a laughable position. What about those other 'sections' that you believe do deserve a club?

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