Could be interesting in the pubs and train station today (1 Viewer)

chiefdave said:

The trouble at the home game was in part caused by piss poor crowd management at the Ricoh.

That stupid barrier in the car park funnelling both sets of fans to a meeting point at the bottom. Row of police and stewards completely ignoring the two sets of fans having a go at each other over the barrier and a predictable result when the suddenly reached a part where there was no barrier. The response was then incredibly slow with police and stewards just standing by and watching the trouble unfold.

For the two games at St Andrews so far away fans have been warned they could be kept in the ground after the final whistle for crowd management. Would be surprised if they don't hold Sunderland fans back.

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Sunderland restricted tickets to Pompy on Saturday and said they will for our game too. I hope in return we restrict them at ST Andrews.
Any trouble in Birmingham would not be at ST Andrews anyway due to the volume of Police, loads outside the ground leading to McDonalds on Saturday.

CV22SBA said:

Sunderland restricted tickets to Pompy on Saturday and said they will for our game too. I hope in return we restrict them at ST Andrews.
Any trouble in Birmingham would not be at ST Andrews anyway due to the volume of Police, loads outside the ground leading to McDonalds on Saturday.

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Potentially and depending on how well Blunderland are doing at the time, they could bring 10k to St Andrews. CCFC aren't going to limit them to a thousand and turn their back on an extra £180k.

How many knockouts did everybody get at the weekend?

I saw an old boy getting a bit lairy by the burger van and some dodgy look people walking to B&M.

OffenhamSkyBlue said:

For those of you that weren't around in the 70s and 80s, all this posturing and cowering behind a row of 5 coppers and a couple of lardy stewards looks fuckin' laughable!
Just for the record, i do not want to see a return to those days (other than standing terraces), but most of these issues are a result of poor safety management and failure to design out crime. It's stuff you'd see in most high streets on any Friday or Saturday. Mostly involving women!

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I don't want to see standing terraces return either. Designated standing areas I'm 100% for. Terraces. Not a chance.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

I don't want to see standing terraces return either. Designated standing areas I'm 100% for. Terraces. Not a chance.

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Why? Terraces still exist. We'll be standing on one in a few weeks at Burton. As we will at Wimbledon, Fleetwood, Accrington and Bristol Rovers. Terracing never went away, so I always find it odd when people object to the 'return' of terracing.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

I don't want to see standing terraces return either. Designated standing areas I'm 100% for. Terraces. Not a chance.

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The problems were caused by fencing and pens, not by the terracing or standing, per se.

* Edit: And some very poor decision-making

Nick said:

How many knockouts did everybody get at the weekend?

I saw an old boy getting a bit lairy by the burger van and some dodgy look people walking to B&M.

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Did you two-foot the bastards earlydoors, just to let them know you were there?

theferret said:

Why? Terraces still exist. We'll be standing on one in a few weeks at Burton. As we will at Wimbledon, Fleetwood, Accrington and Bristol Rovers. Terracing never went away, so I always find it odd when people object to the 'return' of terracing.

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They do exist, but they should be phased out and be used as the trial for designated standing in this country.

I don't like terraces because it's a free-for-all. Loads of people want to be in the bit behind the goal and push and shove to get in there. It creates aggro. Plus it's harder to police/steward because you can't make someone leave a particular area, you can only request it creating further potential flashpoints. If you have a designated standing area then if someones ticket isn't in that area you can force them to move to where their ticket is for. It offers the opportunity to stand but with the added safety and security of everyone having their own space.

With that option available I don't see why anyone would want terracing instead of it apart from for nostalgic reasons.

OffenhamSkyBlue said:

The problems were caused by fencing and pens, not by the terracing or standing, per se.

* Edit: And some very poor decision-making

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The pens certainly made it a lot worse because it prevents people spreading out along the whole terrace and the fences the same going forward. But for popular games the number of terracing tickets could make it very crowded. I'm fine with the standing, as long as it's made aware that that area standing is allowed and people can't complain of a blocked view etc, because that isn't dangerous.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

They do exist, but they should be phased out and be used as the trial for designated standing in this country.

I don't like terraces because it's a free-for-all. Loads of people want to be in the bit behind the goal and push and shove to get in there. It creates aggro. Plus it's harder to police/steward because you can't make someone leave a particular area, you can only request it creating further potential flashpoints. If you have a designated standing area then if someones ticket isn't in that area you can force them to move to where their ticket is for. It offers the opportunity to stand but with the added safety and security of everyone having their own space.

With that option available I don't see why anyone would want terracing instead of it apart from for nostalgic reasons.

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I have stood on terracing countless times over the years and haven't encountered any aggro. There are fans of clubs, those I mentioned and lots of others, where home fans still stand (Peterborough, Scunthorpe etc.) without issue every week. The issue about people wanting to stand behind the goal, perhaps true, but terracing gives the people who aren't perhaps as boisterous the option to simply move away and pick their own spot. This freedom doesn't exist in either seated or safe standing areas, where you are sited in the space/seat that has been randomly allocated to you. How many times have you been in a seat next to a bunch of idiots in a sold out end where you would have loved to have moved away from them if you could?

The arguments against terracing are can often be turned around and used in support. It is largely an emotional argument and not a particularly rational one in many respects.

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon said:

Did you two-foot the bastards earlydoors, just to let them know you were there?

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Nah just tapped them on the opposite shoulder so they looked that way and then licked my finger and put it in their other ear as they turned back round.

The rest of their firm backed down then.

theferret said:

Why? Terraces still exist. We'll be standing on one in a few weeks at Burton. As we will at Wimbledon, Fleetwood, Accrington and Bristol Rovers. Terracing never went away, so I always find it odd when people object to the 'return' of terracing.

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Burton is not a good example to give. It was seriously overcrowded on both occasions i've been but last season was just dangerous. Good job we didn't score as could have been a bigger problem with safety. I will go again in a couple of weeks but i won't take my young son unless i get a couple of seating tickets on the left side.

Nick said:

Nah just tapped them on the opposite shoulder so they looked that way and then licked my finger and put it in their other ear as they turned back round.

The rest of their firm backed down then.

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Far, far more intimidating that. Not convinced it would make for as good a film as Football Factory but what does the film industry really know eh?

CV22SBA said:

Burton is not a good example to give. It was seriously overcrowded on both occasions i've been but last season was just dangerous. Good job we didn't score as could have been a bigger problem with safety. I will go again in a couple of weeks but i won't take my young son unless i get a couple of seating tickets on the left side.

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Went last season and the time before (when we did score), how was it dangerous? I remember thinking that in the old days that terrace would have had far more people in it. If you want to stand somewhere a little more sedate you simply go to the wings. I'd argue that there's more chance of injury in the melee following a goal in seated areas. My nine year old was flattened by half a dozen blokes tumbling down seats when we scored at Notts County. Bruises all up his leg. Saying that, he thought it was the best thing that had ever happened to him. 'Quality limbs' I think he called it.

theferret said:

I have stood on terracing countless times over the years and haven't encountered any aggro. There are fans of clubs, those I mentioned and lots of others, where home fans still stand (Peterborough, Scunthorpe etc.) without issue every week. The issue about people wanting to stand behind the goal, perhaps true, but terracing gives the people who aren't perhaps as boisterous the option to simply move away and pick their own spot. This freedom doesn't exist in either seated or safe standing areas, where you are sited in the space/seat that has been randomly allocated to you. How many times have you been in a seat next to a bunch of idiots in a sold out end where you would have loved to have moved away from them if you could?

The arguments against terracing are can often be turned around and used in support. It is largely an emotional argument and not a particularly rational one in many respects.

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99.9% of the time it'd be fine. If games aren't sell-outs then there'll be some space somewhere. But it only takes once for there to be a problem and that's once too many as we saw. As people have said on here the potential tradegy was foreseeable before it actually happened and it could well have been our fans involved in that a couple of years earlier instead.

I didn't say designated standing was ideal, or perfect, but safer while offering a similar experience. Nowadays I see people switch seats at HT if they're not happy with the neighbours and they see one unoccupied - people could still do that if they know the seat has been unoccupied. Again not ideal but an option.

As far as I can tell yours is largely an emotional argument based on your memories and preference for terracing. My first few games were spent on the terraces - it was a bit scary and intimidating as a small child but also quite exciting. First game I stood in the east end on a box so I could see over the wall. After that often stood in the WT. But taking into account the atmosphere against the safety issue, it has to be designated standing all the way.

So.....was it carnage? Or did nothing at all happen?

theferret said:

A bit much. It's a rights of passage thing to a large extent. It's all mostly harmless and if they play up just tell them to pipe down. Groups of lads in their late teens getting a bit excitable on a day at the football, worse things happen at sea.

It's no different at any other club. Had to laugh at the Bristol Rovers yoof at the back of the away stand today. Although I did see possibly the best Affro outside of the Jackson family.

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Whilst I understand the point you're making, I don't entirely agree with it.

A couple of examples involving myself to varying degrees...

1) Villa away when we got relegated. At the age of 18/19 I exited the ground in a furious mood, and got involved in one or two arguments... ended up taking my frustration out on a policeman, and quite rightly got whacked. Lesson learned, and quite glad I wasn't arrested.

2) Hinckley away pre-season friendly several years ago. I'd been shopping in Leicester with my mum, and the more hostile element of the SBA got on the train at Hinkley. Absolute dickheads the lot of them... abusing other passengers, staff, singing "we do what we want" and generally being arseholes. There was a fair amount of teens/early 20's, but the ringleaders were generally blokes in their 40's.

1) is possibly the sort of thing you are referring to.
2) is just bullying plain and simple, and unfortunately 2) occurs a lot more than 1) from what I see.

Travs said:

Whilst I understand the point you're making, I don't entirely agree with it.

A couple of examples involving myself to varying degrees...

1) Villa away when we got relegated. At the age of 18/19 I exited the ground in a furious mood, and got involved in one or two arguments... ended up taking my frustration out on a policeman, and quite rightly got whacked. Lesson learned, and quite glad I wasn't arrested.

2) Hinckley away pre-season friendly several years ago. I'd been shopping in Leicester with my mum, and the more hostile element of the SBA got on the train at Hinkley. Absolute dickheads the lot of them... abusing other passengers, staff, singing "we do what we want" and generally being arseholes. There was a fair amount of teens/early 20's, but the ringleaders were generally blokes in their 40's.

1) is possibly the sort of thing you are referring to.
2) is just bullying plain and simple, and unfortunately 2) occurs a lot more than 1) from what I see.

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I mainly talking about the the first. When you're young and have a few beers inside you at the football, you can get a bit excitable and overstep the mark a little and react to situations a little too easily. Most of us have been there to a degree. When you get a bit older and mellow you look back on that and cringe.

The second is just shithousery and unnecessary because it's a situation away from the game itself with zero provocation and that sort of stuff should be called out. Not excusing that, or the first example to be honest, just saying that some people have short memories and sometimes people condemn stuff that is pretty harmless and nothing they wouldn't have done themselves in their youth.