Cov RFC do NOT want a merger with Wasps (2 Viewers)

theferret · Sep 22, 2014

I just don't see how this could possibly work. As owners Wasps would, naturally, want to make the stadium their own. They probably wouldn't want to play in an arena with sky blue seats, with references to 'CCFC' and 'SkyBlues' at both ends. This move would be massively controversial for them, and they would (you imagine) go to great lengths to make it feel like home to their sceptical supporters, so there would be a lot of internal and external changes in terms of branding.

From what we know (which isn't a great deal), we would be the junior partner here (an assumption, but I don't think for one minute they would be able to sell this to their fans if it was an equal partnership), so our needs would be secondary, and I cannot see a situation where our fixtures would take precedence.

The whole thing is a nonsense, even before you consider the ethics of franchising such a big name in Rugby and effectively destroying our own local Rugby club in the process. If this were to happen, then it would be the beginning of the end of CCFC at the Ricoh, regardless of who is in charge.

skybluetony176 · Sep 22, 2014

Otis said:
I'm not going to bother waiting for everyone to get out of bed.

Fook it. I'm not going to even bother waiting for any statement or announcement, I am just going to assume that any deal, if there is a deal, will be really good for Coventry City FC and I am obviously therefore going to back it all the way. All the way baby! Bring it on. Coventry City Wasps RFCFC.

Don't care about anyone elses views, if this makes CCFC a real force then bring it on. Come on!!!

I'm going to assume this will be excellent news for Coventry City and see the back of Sisu and the Sky Blues in the Premier in 2 years.

Come on you Sky Blue Wasps!!

I've heard someone has even written a new Sky Blue Wasp song for us too. they couldn't be bothered to wait for any stattment and just assumed it would be fab news, so here it is.

Sky Blue Wasps with a sting in our tail
Sing together and we'll never fail
Sky Blue Wasps going to win real soon
How do we know, well we'll just assume.

All done to the tune of Lieutenant Pigeons' Mouldy Old Dough.

Mouldy Old Dough. Top tune.

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

theferret said:
I just don't see how this could possibly work. As owners Wasps would, naturally, want to make the stadium their own. They probably wouldn't want to play in an arena with sky blue seats, with references to 'CCFC' and 'SkyBlues' at both ends. This move would be massively controversial for them, and they would (you imagine) go to great lengths to make it feel like home to their sceptical supporters, so there would be a lot of internal and external changes in terms of branding.

From what we know (which isn't a great deal), we would be the junior partner here (an assumption, but I don't think for one minute they would be able to sell this to their fans if it was an equal partnership), so our needs would be secondary, and I cannot see a situation where our fixtures would take precedence.

The whole thing is a nonsense, even before you consider the ethics of franchising such a big name in Rugby and effectively destroying our own local Rugby club in the process. If this were to happen, then it would be the beginning of the end of CCFC at the Ricoh, regardless of who is in charge.

I don't see how it can work either, ferret.

Just if's at the moment though. Maybe we will find more out in the next few days.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 22, 2014

Marvellous, more banging on about what we don't know.

Well unless Wasps intend to set up a housing association and move a few tenants into the Ricoh, they'd want to use it for playing Rugby Union in.

As they're not a Coventry team, that would be wrong.

Just like to point out it's not me who hasn't left it Fortunately I do have to work today, however!

olderskyblue · Sep 22, 2014

Otis, you're completely wrong....

Otis said:
Sky Blue Wasps with a sting in our tail
Sing together and we'll never fail
Sky Blue Wasps going to win real soon
How do we know, well we'll just assume.

All done to the tune of Lieutenant Pigeons' Mouldy Old Dough.

The Lyrics need more work...

WiganSkyBlue · Sep 22, 2014

Let me be clear, a "foreign" team moving franchise-like to the Ricoh is most definitely wrong.

Having said that, Rugby and Football can co-exist - Wigan Athletic and Wigan Warriors at the DW stadium for instance.

Ideally CCFC and Coventry Rugby Club would be ideal partners and could be the start of a revival of Rugby in Coventry. I remember when Cov Rugby Club was a feeder for many England Internationals in the 1960's.

What happened at/with Coundon Road? - something similar to us and Highfield Road?

:thinking about: Someone, somewhere has made a pot of money out of the demise of 2 great sporting clubs, methinks!

ccfcway · Sep 22, 2014

Otis said:
Otherwise we are getting angry on just pure rumour.

Without that this place would be empty

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Marvellous, more banging on about what we don't know.

Well unless Wasps intend to set up a housing association and move a few tenants into the Ricoh, they'd want to use it for playing Rugby Union in.

As they're not a Coventry team, that would be wrong.

Just like to point out it's not me who hasn't left it Fortunately I do have to work today, however!

Marvellous! People getting on their high horses and being offended by what we don't know.

First witness m'lud.

Witness: Yes, I saw the man standing in the dock there steal the lawnmower. I believe it was him.

Judge: Right, guilty as charged.

Counsel for the Defence: But m'lud, we've only had the one witness, I haven't cross examined and the defence hasn't had chance to put its own case forward.

Judge: Guilty! I always like to make judgements on just partial information and make assumptions of guilt with very little to go on.

Court ajourned

:sarcasm:

DazzleTommyDazzle · Sep 22, 2014

Otis said:
Marvellous! People getting on their high horses and being offended by what we don't know.

First witness m'lud.

Witness: Yes, I saw the man standing in the dock there steal the lawnmower. I believe it was him.

Judge: Right, guilty as charged.

Counsel for the Defence: But m'lud, we've only had the one witness, I haven't cross examined and the defence hasn't had chance to put its own case forward.

Judge: Guilty! I always like to make judgements on just partial information and make assumptions of guilt with very little to go on.

Court ajourned

:sarcasm:

Was that a "senior" judge and if so, why did he not have his two equally senior colleagues with him?

TF would be outraged!

duffer · Sep 22, 2014

Otis said:
No wonder I haven't had to time to think let alone do anything else.

Just checked and 74 posts I've made today and nearly all of them not my one line quips, but detailed, long replies.

I think I have wasted about 9 hours on here today, looking at the times of my posts. And then you ask me if I have checked your links? :thinking about::laugh:

Hold up a moment. What you're basically saying is that you're not sure and can't be arsed to check, this because you've spent so long saying that you're not sure and you haven't got time to check.

I'm sorry, but that's a pretty poor argument. You can see what Wasps say, you can see what Cov RFC says. If you can't come to an opinion about whether it's right or wrong, then that's fair enough, but let's not pretend that there isn't enough information out there to analyse the suggestion that Wasps relocate to Coventry. At the moment that's clearly what's being proposed here.

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

duffer said:
Hold up a moment. What you're basically saying is that you're not sure and can't be arsed to check, this because you've spent so long saying that you're not sure and you haven't got time to check.

I'm sorry, but that's a pretty poor argument. You can see what Wasps say, you can see what Cov RFC says. If you can't come to an opinion about whether it's right or wrong, then that's fair enough, but let's not pretend that there isn't enough information out there to analyse the suggestion that Wasps relocate to Coventry. At the moment that's clearly what's being proposed here.

Not a poor argument, duffer. I honestly didn't have time to check and to be quite honest, half way through the evening I only got past certain poster's very first lines and I responded to that initial point and didn't scroll down any further.

I didn't read down as far as your link and that's the truth. May be a poor excuse, but that is honestly what happened. I was wearied by the whole thing and didn't read whole replies. Remiss of me, sure, but that is what happened. Wasn't a case of couldn't be arsed, I just didn't see the links until later when you pointed out the links.

Have checked the links this morning and indeed it appears that the vast majority of Wasps fans are against it.

We just need to find out what it actually is though.

We think it is proposed that Wasps move here, but it is not clear I would say. Some have suggested that Wasps just use the Ricoh for some big European games and some Wasps fans seem okay with that and Cov rugby have said they are okay with that.

I doubt that is the case, but we simply do not know and that is the truth. Let's just wait and see what is proposed. Don't think that is much to ask.

stupot07 · Sep 22, 2014

WiganSkyBlue said:
Let me be clear, a "foreign" team moving franchise-like to the Ricoh is most definitely wrong.

Having said that, Rugby and Football can co-exist - Wigan Athletic and Wigan Warriors at the DW stadium for instance.

Ideally CCFC and Coventry Rugby Club would be ideal partners and could be the start of a revival of Rugby in Coventry. I remember when Cov Rugby Club was a feeder for many England Internationals in the 1960's.

What happened at/with Coundon Road? - something similar to us and Highfield Road?

:thinking about: Someone, somewhere has made a pot of money out of the demise of 2 great sporting clubs, methinks!

Rugby league is a bad example though, as their season is march to October so they're not co-existing during the heavy weather months where more damage is done to the pitch and where the weather conditions don't aid recovery. You've ask hit a lot of fixtures Oct - feb if which Xmas, and a decent cup run or 2.

After the Olympics and with the 7-8 home cup games the Ricoh pitch was in a dire condition during the 2012/13 season.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

oldskyblue58 · Sep 22, 2014

Thought I would look at the average home attendances in Premiership Rugby

Wasps - 2011/12 5904...... 2012/13 6049 .....2013/14 5267 ............ hardly big numbers

There are over the last 3 seasons five teams in the Rugby Premiership that have over 10000 averages - Northampton, Harlequins, Gloucester, Bath & Leicester.

Leicester is the only one by a big distance to average over 20000. (2013/14 22487) next biggest was Gloucester at 14015.

The Premier League average for season 2013/14 was 11882

Except for big European games why would Wasps require a 32000 seat stadium? with all the associated costs? Clearly they have a hard core fan base but it is not huge. They may be having ownership discussions but they are going to require as a necessity a another sporting "franchise" there to make it work financially unless they foresee a massive increase in attendance (not sure I see that happening)

Attendance is important not just because of ticket income but also because it feeds in to a whole host of incomes (F&B, Hospitality, sponsorship, advertising etc)

Would prefer this deal with Wasps not to happen, but I understand the rationale behind it in a way. What are CCFC/SISU going to do about it? - they have 4 years tenure at the Ricoh but the decision to be involved long term at the Ricoh is now. Have our owners miscalculated again? will they have to make a more long term deal or are they about to announce the new ground, because for the sake of their business and most importantly the fans they need to evidence/prove the way forward

Astute · Sep 22, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
Thought I would look at the average home attendances in Premiership Rugby

Wasps - 2011/12 5904...... 2012/13 6049 .....2013/14 5267 ............ hardly big numbers

There are over the last 3 seasons five teams in the Rugby Premiership that have over 10000 averages - Northampton, Harlequins, Gloucester, Bath & Leicester.

Leicester is the only one by a big distance to average over 20000. (2013/14 22487) next biggest was Gloucester at 14015.

Except for big European games why would Wasps require a 32000 seat stadium? with all the associated costs? Clearly they have a hard core fan base but it is not huge. They may be having ownership discussions but they are going to require as a necessity a another sporting "franchise" there to make it work financially unless they foresee a massive increase in attendance (not sure I see that happening)

Attendance is important not just because of ticket income but also because it feeds in to a whole host of incomes (F&B, Hospitality, sponsorship, advertising etc)

Would prefer this deal with Wasps not to happen, but I understand the rationale behind it in a way. What are CCFC/SISU going to do about it? - they have 4 years tenure at the Ricoh but the decision to be involved long term at the Ricoh is now. Have own owners miscalculated again? will they have to make a more long term deal or are they about to announce the new ground, because for the sake of their business and most importantly the fans they need to evidence/prove the way forward

Well said OSB. I now await the spin.

How are we supposed to argue on the facts when we don't have any? Nobody has said that they want the arena to be sold to Wasps.

Nick · Sep 22, 2014

Astute said:
Well said OSB. I now await the spin.

How are we supposed to argue on the facts when we don't have any? Nobody has said that they want the arena to be sold to Wasps.

Surely a fact would be that a non Coventry team (ie London Wasps) would be playing home games in Coventry?

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

Astute said:
Well said OSB. I now await the spin.

How are we supposed to argue on the facts when we don't have any? Nobody has said that they want the arena to be sold to Wasps.

Exactly. Absolutely spot on.

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
Thought I would look at the average home attendances in Premiership Rugby

Wasps - 2011/12 5904...... 2012/13 6049 .....2013/14 5267 ............ hardly big numbers

There are over the last 3 seasons five teams in the Rugby Premiership that have over 10000 averages - Northampton, Harlequins, Gloucester, Bath & Leicester.

Leicester is the only one by a big distance to average over 20000. (2013/14 22487) next biggest was Gloucester at 14015.

The Premier League average for season 2013/14 was 11882

Except for big European games why would Wasps require a 32000 seat stadium? with all the associated costs? Clearly they have a hard core fan base but it is not huge. They may be having ownership discussions but they are going to require as a necessity a another sporting "franchise" there to make it work financially unless they foresee a massive increase in attendance (not sure I see that happening)

Attendance is important not just because of ticket income but also because it feeds in to a whole host of incomes (F&B, Hospitality, sponsorship, advertising etc)

Would prefer this deal with Wasps not to happen, but I understand the rationale behind it in a way. What are CCFC/SISU going to do about it? - they have 4 years tenure at the Ricoh but the decision to be involved long term at the Ricoh is now. Have own owners miscalculated again? will they have to make a more long term deal or are they about to announce the new ground, because for the sake of their business and most importantly the fans they need to evidence/prove the way forward

Well said, OSB. Always find you surch a reasoned and well balanced poster on here and your coments and views I always find most welcome.

torchomatic · Sep 22, 2014

The crux. Not sure why people find it so hard to understand. This is why our club was almost torn apart and it will be even worse for poor Wasps fans. As I said I have zero interest in Rugby as a sport but there is already a Rugby team in Cov.

Nick said:
Surely a fact would be that a non Coventry team (ie London Wasps) would be playing home games in Coventry?

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

torchomatic said:
The crux. Not sure why people find it so hard to understand. This is why our club was almost torn apart and it will be even worse for poor Wasps fans. As I said I have zero interest in Rugby as a sport but there is already a Rugby team in Cov.

Yet Cov rugby club have said they would be fine about Wasps just playing some European matches here.

The crux is I feel if Wasps want to move here full time and take over the Ricoh.

lordsummerisle · Sep 22, 2014

Otis said:
The crux is I feel if Wasps want to move here full time and take over the Ricoh.

Isn't that what this is all about? That Wasps apparently want to move here full time and take over the Ricoh?

torchomatic · Sep 22, 2014

Yes, that's the impression I get.

lordsummerisle said:
Isn't that what this is all about? That Wasps apparently want to move here full time and take over the Ricoh?

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

torchomatic said:
Yes, that's the impression I get.

It's the impression most people get.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 22, 2014

torchomatic said:
Yes, that's the impression I get.

And personally I don't want them there part-time either. I don't understand why Cov Rugby would be happy with the odd game tbh, as it's a slippery slope to takeover by stealth if it works well.

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
And personally I don't want them there part-time either. I don't understand why Cov Rugby would be happy with the odd game tbh, as it's a slippery slope to takeover by stealth if it works well.

I don't understand that either. Thought they would be totally against any move, so that does come as quite a surprise.

Who is to say it wouldn't be the thin end of the wedge?

AndreasB · Sep 22, 2014

Not sure why so many on here are against the Wasps deal.

It is good business for ACL which keeps them more financially solvent and more likely to strike a better deal with tenants
More ACL income means potentially better F&B negotiations
It increases the value of the Ricoh which could eventually see a takeover of the whole arena AND the club
Sixfields proved it is relatively easy to have 2 teams sharing one ground with a bit of fixture give and take
Coventry Rugby club is a dead duck already - there maybe some residual fondness for it but no one ever goes there.
There are a lot of joing marketing and sponsorship opportunities for both clubs

Astute · Sep 22, 2014

Nick said:
Surely a fact would be that a non Coventry team (ie London Wasps) would be playing home games in Coventry?

Might be would be closer. It has been said that they are in talks with a few stadiums. As I have said before it could be a bargaining tool for Wasps and ACL. And if it stops SISU from messing us all about and taking negotiations seriously it would be a massive bonus. It would be worth it if it just made Fisher shut his gob.

lordsummerisle · Sep 22, 2014

Astute said:
Might be would be closer. It has been said that they are in talks with a few stadiums. As I have said before it could be a bargaining tool for Wasps and ACL. And if it stops SISU from messing us all about and taking negotiations seriously it would be a massive bonus. It would be worth it if it just made Fisher shut his gob.

If the Wasps talks are just a negotiating tactic, would that not be construed as messing us all about and not taking negotiations seriously?

Otis · Sep 22, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
If the Wasps talks are just a negotiating tactic, would that not be construed as messing us all about and not taking negotiations seriously?

What, like that time I went into that Ferrari car showroom?

Astute · Sep 22, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
If the Wasps talks are just a negotiating tactic, would that not be construed as messing us all about and not taking negotiations seriously?

So if Wasps are involved in negotiations or talks with three stadiums but come to an agreement with one you are saying they will have messed the other two about?

And what is wrong with waiting for facts to come out instead of having a go at others when you are guessing what is going on? Noy only could you be barking up the wrong tree you could even be in the wrong forrest.

lordsummerisle · Sep 22, 2014

Astute said:
So if Wasps are involved in negotiations or talks with three stadiums but come to an agreement with one you are saying they will have messed the other two about?

And what is wrong with waiting for facts to come out instead of having a go at others when you are guessing what is going on? Noy only could you be barking up the wrong tree you could even be in the wrong forrest.

Don't have a go at me, I didn't publish a story in the CT saying that Wasps were in talks to buy the Arena and move here.

Maybe you should direct your complaints there?

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 22, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Don't have a go at me, I didn't publish a story in the CT saying that Wasps were in talks to buy the Arena and move here.

Maybe you should direct your complaints there?

You'd almost think nobody bothered saying they didn't fancy a trip to Northampton until it actually happened, as why bother saying you don't want to go there until it actually takes place?

You'd almost think nobody voiced displeasure at the thought of going to Walsall, so making it clear to them that taking us in might be uncomfortable and making them think again.

You'd almost think nobody had an opinion on Haskell as, after all, he hadn't taken the club over so why say whether you'd like him to or not?

As for Dhinsa nobody, but nobody had a view on him, and who voted for Gary Johnson as manager when there was nothing but speculation?

Personally I'm all for Wasps diversifying, setting up a Primark sweat shop in the Ricoh while quarrying for diamonds in Car park B, and thus bringing jobs to the area.

Limey · Sep 22, 2014

Would a supporter buy out for half the Ricoh ever be possible? Just cant see SISU ever paying for it....

Astute · Sep 22, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Don't have a go at me, I didn't publish a story in the CT saying that Wasps were in talks to buy the Arena and move here.

Maybe you should direct your complaints there?

As you know I haven't had a go at you. I have asked you a couple of questions about a statement you have made. I still await answers.

Astute · Sep 22, 2014

Limey said:
Would a supporter buy out for half the Ricoh ever be possible? Just cant see SISU ever paying for it....

SISU wouldn't return our club to the Ricoh under a rental agreement.....until it was the best option left.

SISU wouldn't pay for the Ricoh......how many options are left and is buying the Ricoh one of them?

Limey · Sep 22, 2014

Astute said:
SISU wouldn't pay for the Ricoh......how many options are left and is buying the Ricoh one of them?

I still believe its an option for them. How quickly do they have to make a move? That aside, 50% split with supporters would be ideal..could the council agree a long term sale plan with the trust?

Cov RFC do NOT want a merger with Wasps (2 Viewers)

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