Coventry 1883 (12 Viewers)

Manchester_sky_blue · Aug 5, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
2000 people a week at £10 per ticket = £460k
Less rent £100k P.a (ACLs latest offer to sisu for league 2)

leaves £360 k net revenue

not many teams below conference premier would have that sort of revenue before sponsorship and other revenues (if any)

we could afford the ricoh (it is whether we would want to)

There all sorts of costs your not considering, employing stewards, policing, ground staff, some form of catering contract/staff, maintenance and repairs etc.

Plus the set up costs of a new team are huge, even at a low level. You have to have somewhere to train, equipment, kits. What happens if the team isnt instantly successful and crowds drop to just a few hundred?

Any new team has to be sustainable and on a sound financial footing from the outset, otherwise its just the same situation all over again but in a lower league.

Additionally, i doubt you could realistically charge £10 a ticket - people might pay it to start with but once the novelty has worn off? I'm not so sure.

Don't get me wrong I would back any plan to play at the Ricoh if it would be possible and i'd be delighted to be proved wrong but I just can't see it at present.

Manchester_sky_blue · Aug 5, 2013

skybluegaz said:
It would require ACL's full backing, but as it's in their interests I don't see why they wouldn't be prepared to give it, unless they still reckon that bringing a big Rugby Union side to the Ricoh would be an easier fix for their finances - IMO that would be a mistake, they'd never get more than 10k averages for Rugby games, it's not the draw that football is in the city.

That would be the only way it might work, if ACL absorbed the bulk of the costs but they would have to be certain it could succeed.

skybluesam66 · Aug 5, 2013

Manchester_sky_blue said:
There all sorts of costs your not considering, employing stewards, policing, ground staff, some form of catering contract/staff, maintenance and repairs etc.

Plus the set up costs of a new team are huge, even at a low level. You have to have somewhere to train, equipment, kits. What happens if the team isnt instantly successful and crowds drop to just a few hundred?

Any new team has to be sustainable and on a sound financial footing from the outset, otherwise its just the same situation all over again but in a lower league.

Additionally, i doubt you could realistically charge £10 a ticket - people might pay it to start with but once the novelty has worn off? I'm not so sure.

Don't get me wrong I would back any plan to play at the Ricoh if it would be possible and i'd be delighted to be proved wrong but I just can't see it at present.

its more than that at Boro - and was £10 when they were 3 leagues lower

they still got 700-800 so surely we could get 2000

mark82 · Aug 5, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
its more than that at Boro - and was £10 when they were 3 leagues lower

they still got 700-800 so surely we could get 2000

And we would be significantly below that.

saltaire bantam · Aug 5, 2013

mark82 said:
But the original Halifax Town was gone.

It's complicated with City still in existence I agree, but Halifax Town AFC's demise is not really relevant to where the new Halifax club started. It should have started at the bottom but the fact is that in 2008 the FL were faced with a new club with signed up members and pledges (fan base), ready to go, it had to be entered somewhere and the FL did not expect then them to start at the bottom with that fan base.

A precedent has already been set by the FL.

chiefdave · Aug 5, 2013

If this is going to be seriously considered then it would be a good idea to meet up with the likes of Wimbledon and get advise from them. Get OSB on board and get a serious budget plan and then start looking for sponsors, or maybe get hold of the likes of Joe and Hoff.

Could maybe start at the Butts and then move to the Ricoh when the capacity is needed.

Manchester_sky_blue · Aug 5, 2013

saltaire bantam said:
It's complicated with City still in existence I agree, but Halifax Town AFC's demise is not really relevant to where the new Halifax club started. It should have started at the bottom but the fact is that in 2008 the FL were faced with a new club with signed up members and pledges (fan base), ready to go, it had to be entered somewhere and the FL did not expect then them to start at the bottom with that fan base.

A precedent has already been set by the FL.

But doesn't there have to be a gap in the league structure in order for a new team to be slotted in? Surely in the Halifax scenario it was the demise of the original team that created a gap, presumably other teams lower down the pyramid were then shuffled up to fill the gap leaving a space in the Northern league into which the "new Halifax" were then inserted. If there is no gap to move into then surely you have no option but to start at the very bottom?

saltaire bantam · Aug 5, 2013

Manchester_sky_blue said:
Plus the set up costs of a new team are huge, even at a low level. You have to have somewhere to train, equipment, kits. What happens if the team isnt instantly successful and crowds drop to just a few hundred?

Actually costs are reasonable, I coach at a low level, the net has forced the cost of kits and equipment into the ground. Pitches? Borrow them from other clubs to train in winter, use council ones in summer, hire 3G pitches, believe me it is far cheaper to set up now than 10/15 years ago. I've just bought one new team kit, branded, 15 full kits for less than £200, 10 years ago I'd have been paying double for the same.

Manchester_sky_blue said:
Any new team has to be sustainable and on a sound financial footing from the outset, otherwise its just the same situation all over again but in a lower league.

Totally agree, you need to get 2000 on board to even start and that's 2000 making deposits and pledges, not just an interested 2000. I suppose a lot will depend on how the Sixfields fiasco pans out, but it cost nowt to explore the idea and make preliminary plans, time moves fast.

saltaire bantam · Aug 5, 2013

Manchester_sky_blue said:
But doesn't there have to be a gap in the league structure in order for a new team to be slotted in? Surely in the Halifax scenario it was the demise of the original team that created a gap, presumably other teams lower down the pyramid were then shuffled up to fill the gap leaving a space in the Northern league into which the "new Halifax" were then inserted. If there is no gap to move into then surely you have no option but to start at the very bottom?

Good point love, but if that was the case then there was free slot, right at the bottom!

Another way of looking at it. My club where I coach is only 2 levels below where Halifax started (again), our average crowd is 30. The simple fact is that we couldn't have hosted Halifax, not with one turnstile, a low wall and and fields all around. How would it be secured and policed? Smaller clubs like us could not afford to invest in the necessary facilities required to host Halifax. At this level, all games are local, every club in the league would have faced the same problem.

Gary.j · Aug 5, 2013

mark82 said:
The thing is we don't know whether the Ricoh is an option, financially or otherwise, until someone asks the question. Options should be kept open.

I have asked the question to an ACL board member, we didn't discuss finances, just wether it would be possible. I don't want to say anymore right now, I hope you understand. When people are ready to meet to talk about a new club, I'll pass on more info.

https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883

stupot07 · Aug 5, 2013

mark82 said:
Couldn't charge £10 ticket at that level. Should look between £3 - £5 per head. Kids go free.

And don't forget £10k per game match fees, cleaning and utilities, etc. plus the vat on each ticket.

skybluesam66 · Aug 5, 2013

its about £8 that to watch bedworth at the oval and £5 for kids

people will pay £10 or maybe £150 for a season ticket

mark82 · Aug 5, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
its about £8 that to watch bedworth at the oval and £5 for kids

people will pay £10 or maybe £150 for a season ticket

You cannot charge grossly more than other teams in your league. If we are in Mid Comb 2 you need to price it as such.

mark82 · Aug 5, 2013

Gary.j said:
I have asked the question to an ACL board member, we didn't discuss finances, just wether it would be possible. I don't want to say anymore right now, I hope you understand. When people are ready to meet to talk about a new club, I'll pass on more info.

https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883

Would be nice to know if it is even a starter or we can just forget it and look at The Butts

Gary.j · Aug 5, 2013

I'm under the impression that people buying into the idea of a reborn CCFC is dependent upon use of the Ricoh. I currently have no plans to talk to The Butts.

stupot07 · Aug 5, 2013

saltaire bantam said:
No, Halifax Town AFC were liquidated with large debts whilst in the Conference Premier, they ceased to exist. FC Halifax Town was formed as an entirely new club.

It started in the NPL 1 division, only 4 promotions from the FL (NPL 1- NPL Prem - Conference N - Conference Prem) and they were not happy about that!

At worst it'll be 1 step below Conference North/South IMO but more likely higher, if the smaller leagues can't cope with Halifax (1200-1500 fans) how can they with a Coventry?

My point is like Chester Halifax ceasing to exist meant an opening in the football pyramid.

Where did afc Wimbledon and FC Manchester start?

stupot07 · Aug 5, 2013

saltaire bantam said:
Good point love, but if that was the case then there was free slot, right at the bottom!

Another way of looking at it. My club where I coach is only 2 levels below where Halifax started (again), our average crowd is 30. The simple fact is that we couldn't have hosted Halifax, not with one turnstile, a low wall and and fields all around. How would it be secured and policed? Smaller clubs like us could not afford to invest in the necessary facilities required to host Halifax. At this level, all games are local, every club in the league would have faced the same problem.

Afc Wimbledon got 4k+ fans in the 9th tier, their fan base didn't alter where they were placed in the pyramid.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2013

I think youre all forgetting something if this was to happen the football authorities would owe us fans remember real football real fans blah blah:thinking about:

stupot07 · Aug 5, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
I think youre all forgetting something if this was to happen the football authorities would owe us fans remember real football real fans blah blah:thinking about:

Didn't they owe Wimbledon fans?

saltaire bantam · Aug 5, 2013

stupot07 said:
Afc Wimbledon got 4k+ fans in the 9th tier, their fan base didn't alter where they were placed in the pyramid.

They averaged about 2500 for their first 6 seasons. But what did they take away? Where the problems would occur, after all, they pulled in 3003 at home for a PL game! Coventry are absolutely massive compared to other clubs that have started again, over 1000 at Crawley after your pre-season!

saltaire bantam · Aug 5, 2013

stupot07 said:
Didn't they owe Wimbledon fans?

That's another thing, the FL had a vested interst in shafting both Wimbledon & FC United. Hopefully SISU might become an embarrassment for them.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2013

stupot07 said:
Didn't they owe Wimbledon fans?

Quite right but and this is a big but they had no control over the move to MK they changed rules after they have in our case

Vedere · Aug 5, 2013

Is there a forum (in the digital and the wider sense) where these issues can be raised and recorded. As someone suggested, someone needs to discuss with other clubs on procedures of how to get this in place the worst happens to City!

RogerH · Aug 5, 2013

Vedere said:
Is there a forum (in the digital and the wider sense) where these issues can be raised and recorded. As someone suggested, someone needs to discuss with other clubs on procedures of how to get this in place the worst happens to City!

https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883

https://coventry1883.wordpress.com/

Vedere · Aug 5, 2013

RogerH said:
https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883

https://coventry1883.wordpress.com/

Cheers

mark82 · Aug 5, 2013

I had a play on pitchero which is used for club websites. It's not perfect but I may open it up as it has a forum feature on it.

mark82 · Aug 5, 2013

mark82 said:
I had a play on pitchero which is used for club websites. It's not perfect but I may open it up as it has a forum feature on it.

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/coventry1883/

Voice_of_Reason · Aug 5, 2013

My feelings are we should support 1883 for as long as SISU FC plays at Sixfields. I would love to see 1883 enter the pyramid and prosper. I think every Sky Blue supporter should get behind them - nothing wrong in this as we can still support the City at away games and continue to protest. This is a "fail safe" as no way can I see CCFC returning to Coventry.

mark82 · Aug 5, 2013

Voice_of_Reason said:
My feelings are we should support 1883 for as long as SISU FC plays at Sixfields. I would love to see 1883 enter the pyramid and prosper. I think every Sky Blue supporter should get behind them - nothing wrong in this as we can still support the City at away games and continue to protest. This is a "fail safe" as no way can I see CCFC returning to Coventry.

Could maybe request we are at home the same weeks as CCFC. Such requests are often taken into account.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2013

Voice_of_Reason said:
My feelings are we should support 1883 for as long as SISU FC plays at Sixfields. I would love to see 1883 enter the pyramid and prosper. I think every Sky Blue supporter should get behind them - nothing wrong in this as we can still support the City at away games and continue to protest. This is a "fail safe" as no way can I see CCFC returning to Coventry.

If there is no way you can see CCFC returning to Coventry then why would you still support them?

skybluesam66 · Aug 5, 2013

i suggest that as soon as we kick off for the 1st time in northampton is the time for Coventry1883 to begin
Is somebody organising this - initial meeting etc

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
i suggest that as soon as we kick off for the 1st time in northampton is the time for Coventry1883 to begin
Is somebody organising this - initial meeting etc

I would wait till next week:thinking about:

mark82 · Aug 5, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
I would wait till next week:thinking about:

Agree. As much as this needs doing soon there is no rush. Just need to be ready for next season. Team will need to be registered by about March realistically.

covmutley · Aug 5, 2013

I agree with Mark that this should be a project and for what it is worth, I am comfortable with this. We shouldn't try to rush a rival team and best case is we don't need a new team anyway.

Good stuff on the pitchero site mark. Coventry1883.co.uk and coventry1883.com point to the blog I set up that you have included the link for. If the person a few pages up who offered would kindly like to help create a website it would be much appreciated and the project could use those domain names?

We need to think what the club structure will be. I have looked into fc united amongst other fan owned clubs and udated the 'constitution' page on the blog and copied below. Please can people comment!

........

The core principles of how the club will operate are set out below, and once agreed by the membership, will be protected by all elected Board members:

-The Board will be democratically elected by its members.
-The Board must consist of at least 5 people, at least 50% of whom must be members and with no other financial interest in the club
-Club members will be required to pay an annual fee (£50?) that entitles them to vote as a club owner
-The elected board will determine what issues should be voted on by members. This is not championship manager!
-Membership fees will be reinvested into the club
-Decisions taken by the members will be decided on a one member, one vote basis.
-The club will develop strong links with the local community
-The club will encourage young, local participation - playing and supporting - whenever possible.
-The members will always own and control a minimum 55% stake in the club.*
-Private investment, including purchase or part of the club (to a maximum of 45%) will be encouraged
-Sale of any part of the club to a private investor will be subject to the agreement of members by a vote
-Any profits attributable to members will be reinvested into the club

ajsccfc · Aug 5, 2013

Voice_of_Reason said:
My feelings are we should support 1883 for as long as SISU FC plays at Sixfields.

But if we returned from Sixfields, what then? Ditch this new team?

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