Coventry City fans to discuss possibility of supporter-led takeover (14 Viewers)

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 24, 2017

Any other notable figures?
A large amount of money has been paid into an employee benefit trust by Sisu.

Trusts like this allow employers to deposit money into the trust, which is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of tax-free loans which are not always repaid.

Employee benefit trust payments should not be made on a contractual basis - as that would essentially mean they are salary and subject to tax and national insurance.

Mr Carvell said: “There has been a £614,000 increase in investments.

“The investment, in a nutshell, is what’s called an employee benefit trust. It’s a trust set up for the benefit of employees.

“They are spending a lot of money for their employees.

“They’ve had a really good year but, because of the employee benefit trust, they’ve really done no better than the year before.

“The number of debtors has gone down, but the cash has gone up. It’s more cash rich at the end of the year.”

If Fisher says we've made £1m profit.... Where is it??? not gone back into CCFC. Yet suddenly SISU have made a big profit, and extremely generously have paid into a "Employee Benefit Scheme" which as you can see in the highlighted part of the post .... which is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of tax-free loans which are not always repaid.

I wonder who that could be???

Nick · Jan 24, 2017

Sky Blue Kid said:
Any other notable figures?
A large amount of money has been paid into an employee benefit trust by Sisu.

Trusts like this allow employers to deposit money into the trust, which is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of tax-free loans which are not always repaid.

Employee benefit trust payments should not be made on a contractual basis - as that would essentially mean they are salary and subject to tax and national insurance.

Mr Carvell said: “There has been a £614,000 increase in investments.

“The investment, in a nutshell, is what’s called an employee benefit trust. It’s a trust set up for the benefit of employees.

“They are spending a lot of money for their employees.

“They’ve had a really good year but, because of the employee benefit trust, they’ve really done no better than the year before.

“The number of debtors has gone down, but the cash has gone up. It’s more cash rich at the end of the year.”

If Fisher says we've made £1m profit.... Where is it??? not gone back into CCFC. Yet suddenly SISU have made a big profit, and extremely generously have have paid into a "Employee Benefit Scheme" which as you can see in the highlighted part of the post .... which is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of tax-free loans which are not always repaid.

I wonder who that could be???

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 24, 2017

Esoterica said:

skybluetony176 · Jan 24, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
1m profit this year.

Discussed in here as EBIT.

So going of the extracted minutes from the SCG in the link you've provided "EBIT/profit after player trading this year: +£700K" has become £1M profit in a later radio interview and then £1M EBIT when pushed in the same radio interview. Is that where we're at? I wonder what the actual figures are because there seems to be some clouding out in the general domain.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 24, 2017

Nick said:

Hahahaha... Just had a look on the CT site, and this gif came to mind about you digging holes in reply to a lot of their posts to you.... Sadly you beat me to it

Nick · Jan 24, 2017

Sky Blue Kid said:
Hahahaha... Just had a look on the CT site, and this gif came to mind about you digging holes in reply to a lot of their posts to you.... Sadly you beat me to it

Really? ha.

Funniest thing is you actually think you are coming on here proving people wrong. All you do is go mental people disagree with you, abuse them and just throw random links that are completely unrelated about. Then go on about Grendel's estimated facts while you make shit up constantly. Get offended and abuse people because they use facts and figures against what you say.

skybluebeduff · Jan 24, 2017

Won't we find out in March where this profit has been used? Is that when the accounts are released?

Nick · Jan 24, 2017

skybluebeduff said:
Won't we find out in March where this profit has been used? Is that when the accounts are released?

Surely people will see that there isn't a mill sat in a bank account somewhere like they seem to think.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
So going of the extracted minutes from the SCG in the link you've provided "EBIT/profit after player trading this year: +£700K" has become £1M profit in a later radio interview and then £1M EBIT when pushed in the same radio interview. Is that where we're at? I wonder what the actual figures are because there seems to be some clouding out in the general domain.

It's been Grenduffy-ized.

skybluetony176 · Jan 24, 2017

Grendel said:
It wasn't exactly forced out was it. Irrelevant anyway

If it's irrelevant why is Tim banging on about it?

Grendel · Jan 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Can't take you seriously anymore since you've confessed that you're as credible as Italia and others.

Lol how's the Welsh branch of the EU commission doing Tony.

Grendel · Jan 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
If it's irrelevant why is Tim banging on about it?

Makes a headline to talk about. Not that it's going to be accurate either gross or net anyway I'd have thought.

Grendel · Jan 24, 2017

Sky Blue Kid said:
It's been Grenduffy-ized.

What's your obsession - pm me your address and I'll send you a signed poster.

NortonSkyBlue · Jan 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
So going of the extracted minutes from the SCG in the link you've provided "EBIT/profit after player trading this year: +£700K" has become £1M profit in a later radio interview and then £1M EBIT when pushed in the same radio interview. Is that where we're at? I wonder what the actual figures are because there seems to be some clouding out in the general domain.

Does it matter? It's

skybluetony176 said:
If it's irrelevant why is Tim banging on about it?

nobody is banging on about how the fuck do we save the club? Surely that has more relevance or which striker will come in and score the goals to keep us!

dongonzalos · Jan 24, 2017

Grendel said:
The aim is to be cash flow neutral. You asked what the difference was between the trust and sisu.

We know last season the investors lent money as the cash flow position was failing.

Would the trust have access to such facilities.

The fact they want administration is very worrying as they would potentially mean a team in the depths of league two at take over. Summer funding would be a huge risk.

Under these circumstances liquidation would be a definate possibility.

The problem is with the current plan of cuts League 2 seem inevitable anyway.
Sorry but would you mind explaining the difference between cash flow neutral and breakeven.
As Tim Fisher keeps say we have to operate at breakeven.
Personally I believe a club owned by supporters would get a better deal from Wasps than SISU. I also think we would get more help on the academy front.
I also think if the club is ran by supporters any interested parties would more likely consider steeping in that trying to do business with SISU.
( of course all of the above is just my personal opinion nothing I can quantify )
I also can't see SISU handing the club over to the the supporters.
I also think administration is inevitable under the current plan. Without anyone trying to force it.

Captain Dart · Jan 24, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
1m profit this year.

Discussed in here as EBIT.

That wasn't made clear on CWR till DJ spoke up, to be honest I doubt most listeners realis the significance of what was said. In fact Fisher said it was EBIT in some SCG minutes a few months back.

skybluetony176 · Jan 24, 2017

Grendel said:
Lol how's the Welsh branch of the EU commission doing Tony.

I can post plenty of links up to the coverage of the European commission investigating the arrangement that Swansea have on their ground for illegal state aid if you like and you know I can so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You have however self confessed that your as credible as Italia. If you want to prove otherwise by substantiating your claim go ahead. I won't give you a hard time for proving your right. I'll even apologise for suggesting that you're no more credible than Italia. Until then you're no more credible than Italia and the only person who's gave that credence is yourself by bringing him into it in the first place. Well done.

SkyBlueZack · Jan 24, 2017

Captain Dart said:
That wasn't made clear on CWR till DJ spoke up, to be honest I doubt most listeners realis the significance of what was said. In fact Fisher said it was EBIT in some SCG minutes a few months back.

So as I mentioned it wasn't revealed as something new? TF hadn't been pushed to say something he didn't want to. He confirmed something that he had said a few months back.

Sub · Jan 24, 2017

Can i just ask a question as all the accounts stuff goes over my head most of the time.
CCFC made a million pound profit (according to TF)
Then suddenly SISU put X amout of money into an EBIT account for tax free loans to their staff which does not have to be paid back.
How are these two linked or are they not linked ?

dongonzalos · Jan 24, 2017

chiefdave said:
Then it comes down to what has to happen to make that change. If we're saying admin has to happen then there's a very good chance we'd take over a non-league club. Is that worth doing to get rid of SISU. Of course there's no reason to think that under SISU we wouldn't end up there anyway.

I'm not sure a lot of people have a realistic view of what things would be like with fan ownership.

Unfortunately if the current plan is attain breakeven by making cuts as oppose to be increasing revenue. Then yes if SISU are prepared to go to the non league then that is where I see us going.
In my opinion as you cut crowds go down and so does revenue so the breakeven goal post moves. Then you have to cut some more.
So from what I have read supporter ownership does look better out of the two options.
However I also think it will come from a natural progression to administration created by SISU's decision's (no one else)

skybluetony176 · Jan 24, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
So as I mentioned it wasn't revealed as something new? TF hadn't been pushed to say something he didn't want to. He confirmed something that he had said a few months back.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when the SCG minutes talk about EBIT it say's ""EBIT/profit after player trading this year: +£700K". Tim Fisher went on the radio and said £1M profit with no mention of EBIT. Not nearly the same thing. The 2 figures are different for starters and he only acknowledged EBIT when pushed.

Nick · Jan 24, 2017

Sub said:
Can i just ask a question as all the accounts stuff goes over my head most of the time.
CCFC made a million pound profit (according to TF)
Then suddenly SISU put X amout of money into an EBIT account for tax free loans to their staff which does not have to be paid back.
How are these two linked or are they not linked ?

No, the profit was ebit so he says so it means before tax and interest etc.

It isn't linked that anybody can see.

Sub · Jan 24, 2017

Nick said:
No, the profit was ebit so he says so it means before tax and interest etc.

It isn't linked that anybody can see.

Thanks Nick

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 24, 2017

Nick said:
Really? ha.

Funniest thing is you actually think you are coming on here proving people wrong. All you do is go mental people disagree with you, abuse them and just throw random links that are completely unrelated about. Then go on about Grendel's estimated facts while you make shit up constantly. Get offended and abuse people because they use facts and figures against what you say.

Is that like you do on other forums, and don't answer to their posts so come up with your repetitive diatribe after being obliterated.

skybluetony176 · Jan 24, 2017

Grendel said:
Makes a headline to talk about. Not that it's going to be accurate either gross or net anyway I'd have thought.

And tell me again how people only believe TF when suits?

Nick · Jan 24, 2017

Sky Blue Kid said:
Is that like you do on other forums, and don't answer to their posts so come up with your repetitive diatribe after being obliterated.

What hasn't been answered? Obliterated where by who?

Repetitive diatribe ha, have you seen the pattern of your posts?

Make stuff up
Get corrected
Have a meltdown
Mention grenduffy estimated facts
Throw in random links that are unrelated and keep trying to refer back to them, even though they are unrelated anyway

I think you posting up links that SISU directors got paid by SISU to prove they pocket all of CCFC's money sums it up.

martcov · Jan 24, 2017

Grendel said:
Makes a headline to talk about. Not that it's going to be accurate either gross or net anyway I'd have thought.

Absolutely right. Tim trying to show how he got the losses out of the way and even turned a momentarily profit. Which at the end of the day it probably isn't. I also agree that the "break even" tactic of Tim, is basically the same tactic that a fan ownership would be forced to follow - unless or until someone from outside ploughed money in. The advantage of SISU is that they have provided short term funding in sticky times in the past - which they recoup from player sales, or maybe a cup run. This would depend on the liquidity or creditworthiness of the fan owners in the future.

Any advantages of fan ownership comes out of increased attendances. That has to be offset against the costs of getting fan ownership.

If SISU obtained succcess short term - as with Mowbray 2015 - attendances would go up anyway and the incentive to go through the hard work of obtaining fan ownership would lessen.

I don't see fan ownership getting us much further than we are now. Would just feel better.

chiefdave · Jan 24, 2017

Sky Blue Kid said:
I take it you don't follow football in general then CD? All but 3-4 Clubs in the Bundesliga are "Fan ownership led" and are getting excellent "Gates" One of my sons was based in Dortmund during his Army career and said crowds over there are superb and entrance is very cheap for games.

And it would be brilliant if that model was adopted in England but until it is then its not really going to impact on fan run clubs in our league.

Grendel · Jan 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
And tell me again how people only believe TF when suits?

But I don't relay care if it's gross or net and I don't think anyone else does either

Grendel · Jan 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
I can post plenty of links up to the coverage of the European commission investigating the arrangement that Swansea have on their ground for illegal state aid if you like and you know I can so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You have however self confessed that your as credible as Italia. If you want to prove otherwise by substantiating your claim go ahead. I won't give you a hard time for proving your right. I'll even apologise for suggesting that you're no more credible than Italia. Until then you're no more credible than Italia and the only person who's gave that credence is yourself by bringing him into it in the first place. Well done.

Can you post a link on how it ended?

wince · Jan 24, 2017

martcov said:
If SISU obtained succcess short term - as with Mowbray 2015 - attendances would go up anyway and the incentive to go through the hard work of obtaining fan ownership would lessen.

Attendances are not going to go up (semi final aside ) and there is no short term success at the bottom of division 3 , people are leaving and they are not coming back

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 24, 2017

chiefdave said:
And it would be brilliant if that model was adopted in England but until it is then its not really going to impact on fan run clubs in our league.

Hold on a second CD. You're "Poo Pooing" the idea set by Portsmouth. Make your mind up mate!

Nick · Jan 24, 2017

David Johnson is now making statements for the sky blue trust? I guess the whole seperation thing wasn't taken on board?

That's why confusion happens and why it makes it easier for SISU to discredit and ignore things.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 24, 2017

Nick said:
What hasn't been answered? Obliterated where by who?

Repetitive diatribe ha, have you seen the pattern of your posts?

Make stuff up
Get corrected
Have a meltdown
Mention grenduffy estimated facts
Throw in random links that are unrelated and keep trying to refer back to them, even though they are unrelated anyway

I think you posting up links that SISU directors got paid by SISU to prove they pocket all of CCFC's money sums it up.

You were ripped a new arse by 3-4 on the CT forum, and all you could say was "We have a expert on our website" Yet wouldn't take in what some were telling you. Someone even said take off your blinkers or words to that effect. I'm not having a meltdown much to your annoyance, and actually shown you and all other posters what "Our Expert" has already spoken about. Grenduffy went off on a tangent asking something, so I reciprocated to him, doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why. You only need to read back a few pages to understand... Wait a minute, you don't do reading back do you!

Monkeyface · Jan 24, 2017

stupot07 said:
Just caught Free Radios news bulletin. It only mentioned boycotting not that fans met to discuss a possible takeover. It basically said "fans were told last night that they will have no choice other then to boycott games if they want to takeover the club at a fans forum meeting last night"

This is pretty much what Nick has been saying. The meeting discussed many things but the soundbite that's been picked up is to boycott (regardless of whether it came from the floor or panel)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

And that is exactly what I've been saying to Nick... he has a responcibilty to ensure the fans get the true picture. I haven't heard the Free radio thing, but if that's true they're misleading those that couldn't make the meeting.

Coventry City fans to discuss possibility of supporter-led takeover (14 Viewers)

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