Coventry City FC's Players are registered with Limited, not Holdings (9 Viewers)

Skybluesquirrel · Jun 28, 2013

ACL and CCFC have a lease agreement that runs for another 45 years.

ACL could argue that they are owed the total value of the outstanding lease - in excess of £50 million.

Anyone like to suggest what SISU would do if they were the landlords and ACL were the tenant?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 28, 2013

Godiva said:
Yes - that was way over the line. Pure stupidity.
He could just have told it as it was - ACL have taken £500k from the escrow and the club have paid £300k towards matchday costs.

Well, he told an out and out lie when he said that and it's not exactly an isolated incident. How are people like him not held to scrutiny for such false remarks?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 28, 2013

Skybluesquirrel said:
ACL and CCFC have a lease agreement that runs for another 45 years.

ACL could argue that they are owed the total value of the outstanding lease - in excess of £50 million.

Anyone like to suggest what SISU would do if they were the landlords and ACL were the tenant?

They will likely liquidate Ltd in such a scenario leaving ACL with diddly squat. The current dawdling I suspect is focussed on getting all the staff they want kept on, and crucial items such as the Golden Share, out of Ltd before liquidating the company. If any players' contracts are still in Limited when this happens then they will be as screwed as ACL in terms of getting any compensation.

Sky Blue Kid · Jun 28, 2013

The bid from Otium Entertainment Group Limited was substantially more than any of the other three bids received and was the bid which gave the greatest return to the unsecured, non-connected creditors of CCFC Limited by a considerable margin.

This would imply that ACL, the largest of the unsecured creditors and the landlords of the Ricoh arena that were originally owed £1.3 million in rent, will be suitably compensated, possibly in full. This will remove any future legal challenges that would have been open to the company, as there is little to object to. If Tim Fisher, CEO of CCFC Holdings Ltd, was correct in his assertions that CCFC Ltd was a non-trading property subsidiary that contained no assets, it will be interesting to see how much has been offered by Otium Ltd to simply purchase sizeable amounts of liabilities – around £70 million according to the Administrators initial report.

@ Godiva....You were saying?:thinking about:

wingy · Jun 28, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
They will likely liquidate Ltd in such a scenario leaving ACL with diddly squat. The current dawdling I suspect is focussed on getting all the staff they want kept on, and crucial items such as the Golden Share, out of Ltd before liquidating the company. If any players' contracts are still in Limited when this happens then they will be as screwed as ACL in terms of getting any compensation.

Can't see em getting that one past the PFA ...BSB .Was interested with PA's terminology yesterday and wondered if some of that related to certain player registrations or not.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 28, 2013

wingy said:
Can't see em getting that one past the PFA ...BSB .Was interested with PA's terminology yesterday and wondered if some of that related to certain player registrations or not.

I don't think we should underestimate these people's audacity Wingy-they will make sure it is watertight.

James Smith · Jun 28, 2013

Ddccfc said:
I'll show you mine, if you show me yours.

Someone who claims to present an objective legal analysis of a subject loses all credibility if they are not willing to be open and honest themselves.

Bias and subjectivity are implied by the anonymity.

That may well be true and there a few of things on here that are posted have no evidence to back them up. However if that statement you made was defamatory and I'm not suggesting that it is, you would have to prove your allegation about ACL links if it came to court. The other person doesn't have to prove anything about their credibility unless you chose to sue them for defaming you, and I haven't seen a post from them that does.

I've been accused of being PWKH, a Council Troll etc. on this site and it hasn't bothered me because I post anonymously and it isn't my real name I post under. I'm not PWKH and I don't work for any council and I'm not here to post inflammatory comments.

Godiva · Jun 28, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well, he told an out and out lie when he said that and it's not exactly an isolated incident. How are people like him not held to scrutiny for such false remarks?

If only we had a Trust who met with him regulary and could hold him responsible for that kind of remarks ...

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 28, 2013

Godiva said:
If only we had a Trust who met with him regulary and could hold him responsible for that kind of remarks ...

I did mean legally.

Godiva · Jun 28, 2013

James Smith said:
... because I post anonymously and it isn't my real name I post under.

Oh, James Smith is not your real name?
I was dead sure you were the brother of John Smith.

Godiva · Jun 28, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I did mean legally.

Yeah, never mind legally ... this is not usa.
He would very quickly stop his 'spin' if he were asked to document his claims to the fans representatives.

Godiva · Jun 28, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
The bid from Otium Entertainment Group Limited was substantially more than any of the other three bids received and was the bid which gave the greatest return to the unsecured, non-connected creditors of CCFC Limited by a considerable margin.

This would imply that ACL, the largest of the unsecured creditors and the landlords of the Ricoh arena that were originally owed £1.3 million in rent, will be suitably compensated, possibly in full. This will remove any future legal challenges that would have been open to the company, as there is little to object to. If Tim Fisher, CEO of CCFC Holdings Ltd, was correct in his assertions that CCFC Ltd was a non-trading property subsidiary that contained no assets, it will be interesting to see how much has been offered by Otium Ltd to simply purchase sizeable amounts of liabilities – around £70 million according to the Administrators initial report.

@ Godiva....You were saying?:thinking about:

Is that a quote from a media, a blog or the actual report of Paul Appelton?

James Smith · Jun 28, 2013

Godiva said:
Oh, James Smith is not your real name?
I was dead sure you were the brother of John Smith.

No sadly not and I can't get you any free cans of the stuff or the dog from the adverts that did the tricks either (most people just remember the Peter Kaye ones now though).

SkyBlueScottie · Jun 28, 2013

italiahorse said:
Wasn't it the other way round, with the Council having to bale ACL out with a preferential loan.? Are SISU now pursuing the legality of the loan in the court?
SISU's only interest in this is to distress ACL surely now their original plan has failed.

Ah yes the original plan to distress ACL, the plan which the council agreed to, and then backed out of?

I wonder why they did that?

Godiva · Jun 28, 2013

SkyBlueScottie said:
Ah yes the original plan to distress ACL, the plan which the council agreed to, and then backed out of?

I wonder why they did that?

I am not even going to mention Hoffman and Elliot ...

Ddccfc · Jun 28, 2013

FootyLawBlog said:
I'm more than happy to be open to scrutiny: but scrutiny of the words I post, which are supported by quoted evidence.

Scrutinise the words I use; if they're wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the evidence I use; if it is wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the interpretation I apply to the evidence, the law, the rules and regulations; if it is wrong challenge me.

That's what scrutiny is about: you don't need to know who I am to scrutinise the blog and the posts I make.

For what it's worth:

I have no connection with Sisu or any of its associated companies.
I have no connection with Paul Appleton or his company David Rubin & Partners
I have no connection with the administrations' solicitors Stephenson Harwood LLP
I have no connection with Coventry City Football Club (I'm not even a fan)
I have no connection with Arena Coventry Ltd, The Higgs Charity or Coventry City Council
I have no connection with any adviser (solicitor, insolvency professional or otherwise) of ACL, Higgs or CCC
I have no connection with any player, employee, contractor or other person associated with any of the parties
I have no connection with Brendan Guilfoyle* or any other insolvency professional
(*Mr Guilfoyle did leave a comment on my blog at the weekend, I emailed him and he emailed back. This doesn't not mean that I have "links" with him - a number of people have emailed me and commented on the blog. I do not consider that I have links with them either)

Ddccfc says I should be open to scrutiny - I've said above what the limits to that scrutiny should be (ie, the words I use, the evidence I quote and the interpretation I put on them). If that isn't sufficient, what level of scrutiny does Ddccfc feel is required? What would my identity add to the scrutiny that's required?

I haven't demanded Ddccdc's identity and I don't see what he should seek mine.

BUT: he has said that he has it "on good authority" that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle / ACL."

Everything I have said on my blog has been supported by sourced quotes and evidence
Now it is time for Ddccfc to support his claim: he should name his "authority" and explain what his claimed links are.
In fact, if he does have it on good authority that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle /ACL" he should already know who I am.

So, I say again: you have made an allegation. The person against whom you make the allegation (me) has completely and unequivocally, denied your allegation.

Please either withdraw your allegation or support it by explaining what your "good authority" is and explaining what the links are that you claim exist.

Bias and subjectivity are implied by your desperation to maintain anonymity.

If you are confident enough in your "research" put your name to it. If not, you don't really have any right to get uppity when your integrity is questioned.

He doth protest too much.

lordsummerisle · Jun 28, 2013

Isn't Footylaw written by Gavin Blake?

Think he's a solicitor for a company in Ireland, though could be wrong.

Does seem strange that somebody who isn't a fan of Coventry City would exclusively blog on Coventry City?

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 28, 2013

Sick Boy said:
It is highly depressing that the fans have never asked questions of ACL, it is a shame upon the football club. The sooner we get rid of both ACL & SISU, the club will grow.

You obviously have a short memory. Lots of fans have questioned acl's tactics but Sisu are mostly to blame and it is very clear that none of the parties trust Sisu and so will struggle to make a deal with them.

Sisu started ok but have proved to be as bad as any owners that have taken temporary ownership of the club and it is time they realised no one wants them anymore.

FootyLawBlog · Jun 28, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Isn't Footylaw written by Gavin Blake?

No. It isn't.

lordsummerisle said:
Does seem strange that somebody who isn't a fan of Coventry City would exclusively blog on Coventry City?

The blog isn't exclusively about CCFC or even football.

CCFC's experiences led me to create the blog but I'm preparing articles on Hearts FC and a Japanese Hammer Thrower even as I type this.

FootyLawBlog · Jun 28, 2013

Ddccfc said:
Bias and subjectivity are implied by your desperation to maintain anonymity.

If you are confident enough in your "research" put your name to it. If not, you don't really have any right to get uppity when your integrity is questioned.

He doth protest too much.

I don't protest too much. I asked you to back up your claim. You haven't. You can't.

The fact that you won't back up your claim or withdraw your claim says so much more about you than me.

Sky Blue Kid · Jun 28, 2013

@ Godiva don't give a frogs fat arse if you believe or not....chew on this....

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-administrator-leaves-3862802

SkyBlueSwiss · Jun 28, 2013

Ddccfc said:
Bias and subjectivity are implied by your desperation to maintain anonymity.

If you are confident enough in your "research" put your name to it. If not, you don't really have any right to get uppity when your integrity is questioned.

He doth protest too much.

Bullshit.
You argue with endless nonsense because you have made an allegation that you cannot support, and when confronted with the truth, you go into all sorts of bullshit. YOU made the allegation, now bloody well support it or be shown to be the liar that I think you probably are!

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jun 28, 2013

Ddccfc said:
Bias and subjectivity are implied by your desperation to maintain anonymity.

If you are confident enough in your "research" put your name to it. If not, you don't really have any right to get uppity when your integrity is questioned.

He doth protest too much.

Seems to me that some on here are getting a bit worried. More and more information is being made available and its really pissing you off isn't it? Because the more that people dig and find or speculate or sow the seeds of doubt the weaker Sisus case. He doesnt need to rid himself of anonimity he doesnt need to be subjective he is more powerfull with his anonimity and you dont like it.You would love him to reveal himself I hope he doesn't

lordsummerisle · Jun 28, 2013

FootyLawBlog said:
No. It isn't.

The blog isn't exclusively about CCFC or even football.

CCFC's experiences led me to create the blog but I'm preparing articles on Hearts FC and a Japanese Hammer Thrower even as I type this.

Sorry, is it Gavin Drake?

footylaw.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/thank-you/‎
2 days ago – Exploring legal issues around Football and other sports (by Gavin Drake)

I can't see anything links on the blog to anything other than Coventry at the moment though?

Don't think anything sinister in your blog or connections to anybody related with the club/ACL/CCC/Guilfoyle though.

Imagine it was all the talk of going to Walsall that piqued your interest.

Ddccfc · Jun 28, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
Bullshit.
You argue with endless nonsense because you have made an allegation that you cannot support, and when confronted with the truth, you go into all sorts of bullshit. YOU made the allegation, now bloody well support it or be shown to be the liar that I think you probably are!

I cannot take offence to being called a liar. You do not know who I am. On this board I am anonymous. Therefore your allegation cannot be levelled at anyone in particular or, more accurately, me specifically.

Being anonymous affords me the privilege of not being open to the same level of direct criticism and scrutiny that any public figure / body is. I'm faceless and so any personal risk is eliminated, allowing me to make sweeping statements at will.

Beginning to understand yet sweetie? Or do you need me to speak more slowlyyyyyy?

Ddccfc · Jun 28, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Sorry, is it Gavin Drake?

footylaw.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/thank-you/‎
2 days ago – Exploring legal issues around Football and other sports (by Gavin Drake)

I can't see anything links on the blog to anything other than Coventry at the moment though?

Don't think anything sinister in your blog or connections to anybody related with the club/ACL/CCC/Guilfoyle though.

Imagine it was all the talk of going to Walsall that piqued your interest.

Www.twitter.com/gavindrake

A welcome public revelation for the integrity of the blog.

If you value the content of a blog about legal issues, written by someone with no formal legal qualifications.

While im here, please take a moment to read my blog on brain surgery using some stuff I found on the Internet (I am not a brain surgeon!)

Sky Blue Kid · Jun 28, 2013

The forum is full of wankers, but you Ddccfc and Summerisle top the lot. Every poster has the right to anonimity and FLB is entitled to his. What the fuck are your names?

FootyLawBlog · Jun 28, 2013

Ddccfc, you now know who I am - not that it adds anything to or detracts from the contents of the blog - could you now please explain how I have links with Brendan Guilfoyle or ACL? You made a specific allegation that you had it on "good authority" that such links exist.

I've challenged you - and your fellow Coventry fans have challenged you - to explain what your good authority is and what these links are.

We're still waiting. Do these links exist or are you a liar?

As for the startling revelation that I have no formal legal qualifications, may I suggest that you read the blog page headed "I am not a lawyer" that was created a whole month before the first blog post; or the blog post headed "Thank You" that I wrote as a follow-up to my first blog post?

If you were to read these you find that I have never claimed to have formal legal qualifications. Moreover, I explicitly make clear that I do not.

What I do have is more than two decades of experience of working in and around the law in many areas; including reporting from many different types of court; but also working in a support capacity for a specialist court; and working alongside lawyers in numerous capacities; acting as a litigant in person in the civil courts and as a private prosecutor in the criminal courts. This has given me a considerable knowledge of the law and legal practice which I am now putting to good use as a law student.

Not that this is any of your business.

However, while I blog anonymously I do not blog in secret. People who I have emailed knew my identity; as did anybody searching for the blog on Google. However, I will continue to blog anonymously because the blog isn't about me or my ego or my personal opinion; rather it is my interpretation of the law. If people find it interesting, great. If people don't want to read it, that's fine too. It doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is that you have impugned my reputation by attributing false motives to me; and you have also called me dishonest.

When challenged to substantiate or withdraw you instead demanded to know my identity. Now you know it, please either explain what your "good authority" is and what my links with Brendan Guilfoyle and ACL are; or withdraw your allegation that I have links to them and that I have acted dishonestly.

blend · Jun 28, 2013

Godiva said:
You're right, and all we can do is trust the administrator and the FL as they have reviewed all the evidence.

That said - if we - the fans - are ever to to be fully satisfied that the CURRENT management has done nothing illegal or dodgy, at some point the club will have to sit down with representatives and explain in detail to their satisfaction. I had a hoped our representatives would be the Trust, but it can't happen until they re-adopt their constitution and start working with the club.

We don't have to trust the administrator if we don't want to. His ultimate aim is to get the best for Otium/SISU, if they have created an enigma then why would we trust him to investigate every anomaly when this wouldn't help them?

valiant15 · Jun 28, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
The forum is full of wankers, but you Ddccfc and Summerisle top the lot. Every poster has the right to anonimity and FLB is entitled to his. What the feck are your names?

Dumb and dumber?

duffer · Jun 28, 2013

Ddccfc said:
Www.twitter.com/gavindrake

A welcome public revelation for the integrity of the blog.

If you value the content of a blog about legal issues, written by someone with no formal legal qualifications.

While im here, please take a moment to read my blog on brain surgery using some stuff I found on the Internet (I am not a brain surgeon!)

The difference is that it would take about two seconds of research to realise that you were a clueless oaf regarding brain surgery, and perhaps other things too.

However, rather than try to criticise FLB's blog by challenging the facts stated on it, you choose to challenge the motives of the writer. Lazy and tiresome.

Prove one thing on those blogs wrong, then come back here with evidence.

Otherwise it just looks a lot like you're throwing around baseless allegations because somebody has written something you don't like.

Ddccfc · Jun 28, 2013

duffer said:
The difference is that it would take about two seconds of research to realise that you were a clueless oaf regarding brain surgery, and perhaps other things too.

However, rather than try to criticise FLB's blog by challenging the facts stated on it, you choose to challenge the motives of the writer. Lazy and tiresome.

Prove one thing on those blogs wrong, then come back here with evidence.

Otherwise it just looks a lot like you're throwing around baseless allegations because somebody has written something you don't like.

I believe I pointed out an obvious error in my very first post in this thread.

The thread with the misleading title. Started by...

Ddccfc · Jun 28, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
The forum is full of wankers, but you Ddccfc and Summerisle top the lot. Every poster has the right to anonimity and FLB is entitled to his. What the feck are your names?

So very eloquent. But hey, you're entitled to that opinion.

Ddccfc · Jun 28, 2013

FootyLawBlog said:
Ddccfc, you now know who I am - not that it adds anything to or detracts from the contents of the blog - could you now please explain how I have links with Brendan Guilfoyle or ACL? You made a specific allegation that you had it on "good authority" that such links exist.

I've challenged you - and your fellow Coventry fans have challenged you - to explain what your good authority is and what these links are.

We're still waiting. Do these links exist or are you a liar?

As for the startling revelation that I have no formal legal qualifications, may I suggest that you read the blog page headed "I am not a lawyer" that was created a whole month before the first blog post; or the blog post headed "Thank You" that I wrote as a follow-up to my first blog post?

If you were to read these you find that I have never claimed to have formal legal qualifications. Moreover, I explicitly make clear that I do not.

What I do have is more than two decades of experience of working in and around the law in many areas; including reporting from many different types of court; but also working in a support capacity for a specialist court; and working alongside lawyers in numerous capacities; acting as a litigant in person in the civil courts and as a private prosecutor in the criminal courts. This has given me a considerable knowledge of the law and legal practice which I am now putting to good use as a law student.

Not that this is any of your business.

However, while I blog anonymously I do not blog in secret. People who I have emailed knew my identity; as did anybody searching for the blog on Google. However, I will continue to blog anonymously because the blog isn't about me or my ego or my personal opinion; rather it is my interpretation of the law. If people find it interesting, great. If people don't want to read it, that's fine too. It doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is that you have impugned my reputation by attributing false motives to me; and you have also called me dishonest.

When challenged to substantiate or withdraw you instead demanded to know my identity. Now you know it, please either explain what your "good authority" is and what my links with Brendan Guilfoyle and ACL are; or withdraw your allegation that I have links to them and that I have acted dishonestly.

I was acutely aware you had no formal legal qualifications.

Indeed, I had no such information about your links with ACL / Guilfoyle.

However, this conversation has served its purpose and perfectly sums up the dangerous misdirection ill informed statements under the guise of anonymity can create.

It will now be extremely difficult for either side to discredit you when you produce well researched, balanced blogs. Keep up the "good" work.

Sky Blue Kid · Jun 28, 2013

Proud of yourself are you?....I've had rows with Grenduffy, Torchomatic, to name but two, but even they wouldn't stoop to what you and Summerisle did.
Scum doesn't come close!

Coventry City FC's Players are registered with Limited, not Holdings (9 Viewers)

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