Coventry City ground share with Coventry RFC at Butts Park Arena could be back on (1 Viewer)

oucho · Sep 21, 2016

Nick said:
Negotiating? Didn't they try to lower the rent?

Only after they had unilaterally stopped paying it. As if they had a God-given right to play at a stadium they didn't own. "We'll pay our dues if we want to" isn't how respectable, reasonable people do business. That might happen in the world of hard-headed business, but the tactics were misplaced because the council were able to resist such pressure. Sore losers SISU were so outraged at not getting their way due to their bully-boy tactics that they petulantly sued and got battered in court.

Come on, after 47k+ posts you must know some of this by now.

albatross · Sep 21, 2016

ok potentially tenants in a much smaller ground. Mmmm

Also someone has to pay for it. Let's say it cost the £31 million as suggested above that money will have to be raised. In order to do that CCFC would have to commit to stay for a very long time. Let's assume the money men are still listening then simply repaying the £31m over 25 yrs at aninterest rate of 4% (probably optimisticwuth ccfc track record) then the repayments alone are approx £161k per month! The largest burden will most likely fall into the football club.

Given that is more than we currently pay for a season and if successful ticket Income is roughly halved and the fair play finance rules are applied it consigns the club to long term obscurity.

Total non starter

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
Only after they had unilaterally stopped paying it. As if they had a God-given right to play at a stadium they didn't own. "We'll pay our dues if we want to" isn't how respectable, reasonable people do business. That might happen in the world of hard-headed business, but the tactics were misplaced because the council were able to resist such pressure. Sore losers SISU were so outraged at not getting their way due to their bully-boy tactics that they petulantly sued and got battered in court.

Come on, after 47k+ posts you must know some of this by now.

So it was never attempted to be re-negotiated before the rent strike?

oucho · Sep 21, 2016

Nick said:
So it was never attempted to be re-negotiated before the rent strike?

Not that we know of. Even if there was, there was absolutely no justification in simply not trying again to negotiate after relegation. There was no basis whatsoever for the rent strike.

Have you read the judicial review? The judge made it pretty clear who was in the right on the whole topic.

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
Not that we know of. Even if there was, there was absolutely no justification in simply not trying again to negotiate after relegation. There was no basis whatsoever for the rent strike.

Have you read the judicial review? The judge made it pretty clear who was in the right on the whole topic.

I have said a fair few times about trying to renegotiate or even playing the PR to get the fans on board. (if we get the rent down we will increase wage budget or buy a player etc).

The reasoning was that ACL couldn't afford to lower the rent at all wasn't it?

shmmeee · Sep 21, 2016

Can't see how you can fit a stadium big enough on there TBH, but if it's financially better for the club then let's go for it. If it's yet another tactic, they can go fuck themselves.

Godiva · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
Only after they had unilaterally stopped paying it.

What about the minutes of meeting stating that ACL and CCFC agreed to the rent holiday?

MusicDating · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
Personally I'm happy for Wasps to stay at the Ricoh and succeed there; mostly because it would serve our owners right, and shoot them right up the bum!
Plus, if WRFC do succeed, it'll mean they can afford to give us a better deal on rent and other revenues, to help us. That might include revenues from the casino, hotel, exhibition hall etc, which we wouldn't get at the Butts.

This deserves a lol.

Hugh Jarse · Sep 21, 2016

Sorry if this has been asked before.

Is the road and parking infrastucture suitable for our size crowds at The Butts? If yes, would it handle, say, double our home attendance?

Godiva · Sep 21, 2016

Nick said:
The reasoning was that ACL couldn't afford to lower the rent at all wasn't it?

Correct.
There was simply not enough revenue to sustain both CCFC and ACL. CCFC ended up bankrupt and ACL was sold in a fire sale.

Bruce the Boot · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
Come on, after 47k+ posts you must know some of this by now.

This might explain while he is King Wum .. http://skybluestalk.co.uk.w3snoop.com/

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

Bruce the Boot said:
"Come on, after 47k+ posts you must know some of this by now"

This might explain him being King Wum http://skybluestalk.co.uk.w3snoop.com/

Ha if only! I very much doubt anybody would be paying 6k to buy this site.

As for wumming, again it is ironic.

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

Hugh Jarse said:
Sorry if this has been asked before.

Is the road and parking infrastucture suitable for our size crowds at The Butts? If yes, would it handle, say, double our home attendance?

There would need to be a lot of changes as it is now.

Johnnythespider · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
Surely the best thing to do is to stay at t he Ricoh on a long-term secure basis. It has got sufficient capacity for another future rise to the big time, we'll probably be able to buy a chunk of it when Wasps get into financial difficulties, and we're there already; it's our home (even if we do not own it). There's no evidence that moving to the Butts would be a preferable option.

It's not our home, it's a nice stadium but it's not our home and never has been, also barring some miraculous set of circumstances it never will be. The butts, for all the problems involved with expansion and location, would offer us the chance to leave behind all the baggage of the last few years and start afresh. Coventry's two most historic sporting clubs playing in the same stadium, what's not to like. I'd even consider buying a joint season ticket if it would help CRFC push on and challenge the interlopers.

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Nick · Sep 21, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
It's not our home, it's a nice stadium but it's not our home and never has been, also barring some miraculous set of circumstances it never will be. The butts, for all the problems involved with expansion and location, would offer us the chance to leave behind all the baggage of the last few years and start afresh. Coventry's two most historic sporting clubs playing in the same stadium, what's not to like. I'd even consider buying a joint season ticket if it would help CRFC push on and challenge the interlopers.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

The "partnership" with cov rugby would be a great option as well. They could do a lot with a crossover.

As said before, they shouldn't be forgotten when talking about this.

Johnnythespider · Sep 21, 2016

Brylowes said:
And you dream of that, it just looks like 'well ' a league 1 ground, I know
That's where we are but surely we still aspire to rise again, this or any
Sort of deal at the Butts is just accepting we've found our level. IMHO
Very worrying.

We spent all of our years in the top flight of English football in a stadium just like that.

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oucho · Sep 21, 2016

Nick said:
The "partnership" with cov rugby would be a great option as well. They could do a lot with a crossover.

As said before, they shouldn't be forgotten when talking about this.

The whole topic should be forgotten and never visited again. The future is the Ricoh. Sorry about that.

You can close the thread now.

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
The whole topic should be forgotten and never visited again. The future is the Ricoh. Sorry about that.

You can close the thread now.

The one where you hope Wasps do really well just to spite SISU yeah?

Johnnythespider · Sep 21, 2016

MusicDating said:
This deserves a lol.

There really should be an unlike button on here.

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oldfiver · Sep 21, 2016

oucho said:
The whole topic should be forgotten and never visited again. The future is the Ricoh. Sorry about that.

You can close the thread now.

Why not give it a chance?

fernandopartridge · Sep 21, 2016

Godiva said:
Correct.
There was simply not enough revenue to sustain both CCFC and ACL. CCFC ended up bankrupt and ACL was sold in a fire sale.

....and the reason for that was the council forcing public debt onto a private company, i.e. the £21m lease premium which apparently paid for the stadium fit out

Brylowes · Sep 21, 2016

Nick said:
Part of the issue when people don't seem to understand we are in league 1. Same when we do undisclosed, same as when we get loans and frees. Some will expect massive fancy stadiums, marquee signings etc.

Nick why be so patronising all the time, we all know where we are , we should do
After 5 years in the third division without a top six finish. That doesn't however
Mean we should roll over and accept it, moving to the Butts would be about the
Preservation of SISU at Coventry City FC and not the preservation of CCFC.

If SISU don't have the means or the ambition to take the club forward then they
Should get what they can pack up and leave. Yes we are where we are but we
Shouldn't be in my opinion, a club like ours with a favourable rental deal should
And I think would gain promotion out of this league at, if not the 1st or the 2nd
Then definitely the 3rd attempt.

If we go to the Butts it will be years of temporary stands, uncovered seating and
Tardis toilets, after all what is it they have ever done that makes you think they
Would build anything. To many people are all to willing to accept their half arsed
excuses, it's time to get on their back and apply as much pressure as possible.
Eventually they will give up.

oldfiver · Sep 21, 2016

Brylowes said:
Nick why be so patronising all the time, we all know where we are , we should do
After 5 years in the third division without a top six finish. That doesn't however
Mean we should roll over and accept it, moving to the Butts would be about the
Preservation of SISU at Coventry City FC and not the preservation of CCFC.

If SISU don't have the means or the ambition to take the club forward then they
Should get what they can pack up and leave. Yes we are where we are but we
Shouldn't be in my opinion, a club like ours with a favourable rental deal should
And I think would gain promotion out of this league at, if not the 1st or the 2nd
Then definitely the 3rd attempt.

If we go to the Butts it will be years of temporary stands, uncovered seating and
Tardis toilets, after all what is it they have ever done that makes you think they
Would build anything. To many people are all to willing to accept their half arsed
excuses, it's time to get on their back and apply as much pressure as possible.
Eventually they will give up.

I doubt if your last paragraph would meet FL regs?

Kingokings204 · Sep 21, 2016

Brylowes said:
Nick why be so patronising all the time, we all know where we are , we should do
After 5 years in the third division without a top six finish. That doesn't however
Mean we should roll over and accept it, moving to the Butts would be about the
Preservation of SISU at Coventry City FC and not the preservation of CCFC.

If SISU don't have the means or the ambition to take the club forward then they
Should get what they can pack up and leave. Yes we are where we are but we
Shouldn't be in my opinion, a club like ours with a favourable rental deal should
And I think would gain promotion out of this league at, if not the 1st or the 2nd
Then definitely the 3rd attempt.

If we go to the Butts it will be years of temporary stands, uncovered seating and
Tardis toilets, after all what is it they have ever done that makes you think they
Would build anything. To many people are all to willing to accept their half arsed
excuses, it's time to get on their back and apply as much pressure as possible.
Eventually they will give up.

Exactly how I feel Bry. We keep burnt told we aren't good enough and there is no fan base. We are a league 1 club get over it. Well I don't want to be a league 1 club and I want to be PL and we can be under the right guidance. If Bournemouth can do it then we can. Did they just accept they are league 1 with a 11k stadium?

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
Exactly how I feel Bry. We keep burnt told we aren't good enough and there is no fan base. We are a league 1 club get over it. Well I don't want to be a league 1 club and I want to be PL and we can be under the right guidance. If Bournemouth can do it then we can. Did they just accept they are league 1 with a 11k stadium?

No, they had a Billionaire owner.

Everybody wants to be a Premier League club don't they?

Kingokings204 · Sep 21, 2016

Nick said:
No, they had a Billionaire owner.

Everybody wants to be a Premier League club don't they?

Not just as simple as that Nick. They had a billionaire end of story. They had ambition and the right people there. Good players. It isn't all solved by a billionaire.

The Reverend Skyblue · Sep 21, 2016

these people who want o stay at the Ricoh, how do they think we can survive on £70,000 F & B money and 8,000 crowds.
What a bright future that is. get your heads out of the sand and see we have no option but to move, nothing at all.
"The lets get a better deal with Wasps brigade", they don't want to talk to us, and if they did they have a £35 million bond issue at £2 million a year to pay for very soon, Do you really think we can get a better deal ! , though the man who negotiated to get Man City to pay £49 million for Ryheem Sterling should be definitely given a go
They wont give us more F & B without raising the rent, so we are truly knackered for decades whilst they have a huge annual financial commitment like that
Lets get to the Butts and start building a future for the club, its the only option out there.

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
Not just as simple as that Nick. They had a billionaire end of story. They had ambition and the right people there. Good players. It isn't all solved by a billionaire.

How else could they spend double their turnover without a Billionaire, without going bust?

Rodders1 · Sep 21, 2016

Sky Blue Dal said:
There a train line too .. how would that not get affected in any future expansion?

I think PSG's ground is built over a train line and so is Ireland's Aviva stadium - so in theory not a problem.

Rodders1 · Sep 21, 2016

Frankley said:
There is standing and that does boost the capacity.

I think Celtic are running a trial of railed seating (which is a way of operating safe standing that they have in Germany). Standing is already allowed in the third flight and if the Celtic trial is successful it may be that some standing may be allowed in the top two divisions.

I've posted about safe standing before and would absolutely love it if we could do it also. Atmosphere would be great and as suggested the attendance would be bigger too - everyone's a winner!!

Brylowes · Sep 21, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
We spent all of our years in the top flight of English football in a stadium just like that.

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Besides the fact that was a different time, I went HR over many years, it looked nothing
Like that.

ajsccfc · Sep 21, 2016

Rodders1 said:
I think PSG's ground is built over a train line and so is Ireland's Aviva stadium - so in theory not a problem.

Yeah I remember getting a train that went directly under a stand at the old Lansdowne Road, you could see the tiering underneath.

Brylowes · Sep 21, 2016

The Reverend Skyblue said:
these people who want o stay at the Ricoh, how do they think we can survive on £70,000 F & B money and 8,000 crowds.
What a bright future that is. get your heads out of the sand and see we have no option but to move, nothing at all.
"The lets get a better deal with Wasps brigade", they don't want to talk to us, and if they did they have a £35 million bond issue at £2 million a year to pay for very soon, Do you really think we can get a better deal !
They wont give us more F & B without raising the rent, so we are truly knackered for decades whilst they have a huge annual financial commitment like that
Lets get to the Butts and start building a future for the club, its the only option out there.

We have dropped to 8-000because of the product on offer, don't forget last season
Up until the team died on it's arse in January we were up around 15-000 and would
Have been over 20-000 had the ball kept rolling.
Why are so many of you willing to just take whatever they tell you, we are bigger and
Better than this, it's about time we realised it and got our fucking club back.

Nick · Sep 21, 2016

Brylowes said:
We have dropped to 8-000because of the product on offer, don't forget last season
Up until the team died on it's arse in January we were up around 15-000 and would
Have been over 20-000 had the ball kept rolling.
Why are so many of you willing to just take whatever they tell you, we are bigger and
Better than this, it's about time we realised it and got our fucking club back.

Yes, it went up until we lost a game and then straight back down...

martcov · Sep 21, 2016

Rodders1 said:
I think PSG's ground is built over a train line and so is Ireland's Aviva stadium - so in theory not a problem.

Isn't the track on an embankment? Too high?

Coventry City ground share with Coventry RFC at Butts Park Arena could be back on (1 Viewer)

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