Coventry City staring into Football Abyss (12 Viewers)

dongonzalos · Apr 13, 2016

Nick said:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...entry-city-staring-footballing-abyss-11172977

Are we, really?

Maybe it is because Fleck is going? Nothing like trying to whip up a frenzy is there

Is there anything he said that is incorrect?

rupert_bear · Apr 13, 2016

If I was Everton I would go for Adam Armstrong instead wouldn't cost a fortune and with Newcastle almost certain to be relegated difficult for them to resist and good for Armstrong too.

skybluebeduff · Apr 13, 2016

In comparison to Simon, Andy is the bigger knobhead.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 13, 2016

Nick said:
It has been laid hasn't it? Could be wrong, which if so why would they rip it up

Edit : This venue has a (recently relaid!) 3G Rubbercrumb floor - you will need short moulded studs or the pimpled Astroturf boots.

That was dated Sept 2015.

If it has just been done, are they going to rip up 100k's worth?

Thanks for that update Nick I hadnt seen that before

Entirely possible that they would rip it up yes. If it made more sense for a multi million pound swimming pool to replace it in 2019 then they will. They will have had 3 years use out of it and its capital value will be not a lot.

From what we know then there is still a threat to the academy at this time.

dongonzalos · Apr 13, 2016

From what I see Andy Turner has stated obvious facts that a hell of a lot of fans (I would suggest the majority) already think anyway. So it's hardly a shock horror that will whip fans into a frenzy!
With the current financial policy you might get up you might not not. So far it's been more in favour of not.
If we do go up I can't really see how we will survive in the championship on such a budget. So our new emphasis will be can we stay up each year.
As much as I would enjoy the promotion itself. I don't think I will enjoy repeated relegation battles in the championship again.

Leicester and Southampton Bournemouth have owners who wanted the top division. They haven't invested unbelievable amounts.

Yes they had owners with deep pockets. I do not know how much money our owners can raise if they wanted to go for the Prem, so I don't know if our owners can match that or not.

I get the impression our owners are saying this club must pay for itself. For me as it stands when it pays for itself that means mid table league 1 to play offs.
Relegation battle championship.
Unless something very unusual happens.
The owners make no money out of the club and still it seems make some loses. So I guess thats why AT thinks the budget may come down a bit again due to this drive for break even.
So personally until all this legal action is completely finished I see our future as league one or bottom of the championship.

When the legal action finishes I have no idea what will happen I hope it is one of these but this but is just sheer blind hope.

SISU win compensation from the government and use it to try to get to the premiership
SISU lose and there are no further legal options. The only way to recoup is the premiership and they go for it.
SISU lose there are no further legal avenues and someone with such means and desires takes the club.
SISU win and walk away and someone with the means and desire takes over.

skybluetony176 · Apr 13, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Thanks for that update Nick I hadnt seen that before

Entirely possible that they would rip it up yes. If it made more sense for a multi million pound swimming pool to replace it in 2019 then they will. They will have had 3 years use out of it and its capital value will be not a lot.

From what we know then there is still a threat to the academy at this time.

Pretty sure someone on here said that it got relayed after a manufacturer of the pitch had an order cancelled before they could supply it so Higgs got the materials on the cheap.

skybluebeduff · Apr 13, 2016

I do not know how much money our owners can raise if they wanted to go for the Prem

They haven't raised anything to go to the Championship, never mind the Premier League. They have publicly stated they will not be investing any more money into CCFC, we're self sufficient and that's all we can rely on with these bastards in charge.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 13, 2016

One thing I didnt mention in the analysis is the effect that Wasps will have on our ability to progress.

Now i know that Wasps could play hard ball about rent and income streams at the Ricoh and that could hinder the club certainly. However there are other effects that are going to hit but wont be negotiated.

This is not going to be about the right or wrongs of what went on. It has happened and the current situation is what CCFC must deal with must compete with.

Presently Wasps are succeeding on the pitch. I am not going to argue that the AVIVA Premiership is bigger than Premiership or even Championship. However the coverage they currently get nationally is, I would argue, greater than the weekly coverage CCFC gets. But more significant is the more local effects

Like it or not people follow success. They get curious, they want to be associated with it, they dont look at the rights or wrongs, they want to see winning entertainment. Now there is a distinct contrast between the performance of CCFC and Wasps and that creates problems for CCFC because the casual fan may make choices in favour of that success. Now it can be recouped - we have seen a little success by simply winning a few games brings people in for CCFC - but the longer the lack of success goes on then the harder it will be to bridge the gap. That affects income, matchday, sponsorship, advertising etc etc

More importantly the corporate £ that either of the clubs can attract is affected by the success or lack of it. There is a local pool of businesses who will be prepared to buy hospitality, to sponsor, etc, some will of course stick to the sport they prefer but if you are looking to impress clients and have no sporting preference would you choose CCFC vs Wigan or Wasps vs Saracens. Not an easy choice if you are not a CCFC fan but then look at what each match day experience might involve, what is available, the cost to entertainment, the length of time etc. The battle between Wasps and CCFC is not about the joe public in the cheap seats in the stadium it is about the corporate £ and Wasps are well ahead in that presently regularly selling most if not all of the hospitality available.

Thats before we start discussing the effect of wasps charm program in the schools, the moving of its training to the area, the money they have available to spend, the promotions they are doing, the backing of City of Coventry initiatives.

There are some good people that try on behalf of CCFC to do something but it doesnt appear planned and it doesnt appear to be invested in by the club. Promotion of the club is done on an ad hoc basis and just allowed to happen not driven. That to me backs my thoughts on it being allowed to stagnate.

None of that is good for CCFC but even so it doesnt put the club on the current edge of the abyss. Our incomes are affected by all of the above but there is a hard core of support that will remain that is still above most clubs average attendances and therefore a hardcore level of income. That should mean we should be able to hold our own in L1. As for Premiership then thats frankly fantasy in the forseeable future, Championship i doubt we could afford it. L1 would appear to be our level and our owners are prepared to allow the club to stagnate there because it suits their purpose

Just my opinions and thoughts, there could of course be things going on behind the scenes that means it is wrong and the truth is different

dongonzalos · Apr 13, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
One thing I didnt mention in the analysis is the effect that Wasps will have on our ability to progress.

Now i know that Wasps could play hard ball about rent and income streams at the Ricoh and that could hinder the club certainly. However there are other effects that are going to hit but wont be negotiated.

This is not going to be about the right or wrongs of what went on. It has happened and the current situation is what CCFC must deal with must compete with.

Presently Wasps are succeeding on the pitch. I am not going to argue that the AVIVA Premiership is bigger than Premiership or even Championship. However the coverage they currently get nationally is, I would argue, greater than the weekly coverage CCFC gets. But more significant is the more local effects

Like it or not people follow success. They get curious, they want to be associated with it, they dont look at the rights or wrongs, they want to see winning entertainment. Now there is a distinct contrast between the performance of CCFC and Wasps and that creates problems for CCFC because the casual fan may make choices in favour of that success. Now it can be recouped - we have seen a little success by simply winning a few games brings people in for CCFC - but the longer the lack of success goes on then the harder it will be to bridge the gap. That affects income, matchday, sponsorship, advertising etc etc

More importantly the corporate £ that either of the clubs can attract is affected by the success or lack of it. There is a local pool of businesses who will be prepared to buy hospitality, to sponsor, etc, some will of course stick to the sport they prefer but if you are looking to impress clients and have no sporting preference would you choose CCFC vs Wigan or Wasps vs Saracens. Not an easy choice if you are not a CCFC fan but then look at what each match day experience might involve, what is available, the cost to entertainment, the length of time etc. The battle between Wasps and CCFC is not about the joe public in the cheap seats in the stadium it is about the corporate £ and Wasps are well ahead in that presently regularly selling most if not all of the hospitality available.

Thats before we start discussing the effect of wasps charm program in the schools, the moving of its training to the area, the money they have available to spend, the promotions they are doing, the backing of City of Coventry initiatives.

There are some good people that try on behalf of CCFC to do something but it doesnt appear planned and it doesnt appear to be invested in by the club. Promotion of the club is done on an ad hoc basis and just allowed to happen not driven. That to me backs my thoughts on it being allowed to stagnate.

None of that is good for CCFC but even so it doesnt put the club on the current edge of the abyss. Our incomes are affected by all of the above but there is a hard core of support that will remain that is still above most clubs average attendances and therefore a hardcore level of income. That should mean we should be able to hold our own in L1. As for Premiership then thats frankly fantasy in the forseeable future, Championship i doubt we could afford it. L1 would appear to be our level and our owners are prepared to allow the club to stagnate there because it suits their purpose

Just my opinions and thoughts, there could of course be things going on behind the scenes that means it is wrong and the truth is different

That's where I see Wasps as a danger. Profile whilst CCFC bring something to the tabke that gets the Ricoh mentioned in the press and on the telly. We are probably worth any hassle we bring. That plus Wasps seem desperate to be accepted by the people of Coventry ATM. So they are unlikely to do anything too negative towards CCFC.
However if they become that big and we become that small that our hassles outweigh our benefits
That could be worrying.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Apr 13, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
We're no more staring into the abyss than we have been for 15 years.

I've got quite used to it...

...after all, if you're not living on the edge...you take up too much room

SkyBlueZack · Apr 13, 2016

Fuck it. Let's all just be wasps fans. Sisu who have no affinity or connection to the club and have already lost millions refuse to lose any more money. So why should I put my hard earned money into the club I've followed all my life. So we'll just let the club die. Unbelievable some of you lot.

Grendel · Apr 13, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Leicester and Southampton Bournemouth have owners who wanted the top division. They haven't invested unbelievable amounts.

.

Ha ha ha classic.

Nick · Apr 13, 2016

SkyBlueZack said:
Fuck it. Let's all just be wasps fans. Sisu who have no affinity or connection to the club and have already lost millions refuse to lose any more money. So why should I put my hard earned money into the club I've followed all my life. So we'll just let the club die. Unbelievable some of you lot.

No, I am just hoping the rules change so Premier League teams can be moved. Then a Premier League team can be drafted in and I can support them instead, that way I might get to see champions league football.

Actually screw it, I might just drive a bit further and support Leicester as they are winning at the minute.

SkyBlueZack · Apr 13, 2016

Would prefer Arsenal. Regular champions league football. Entertaining to watch. The odd superstar or two. Now that Spurs look like a force, maybe they will have to move or risk no longer being the biggest club in North London. One thing is for certain, Coventry people certainly have an appetite for franchise sports teams.

Otis · Apr 13, 2016

ccfctommy said:
Should have offered him 10 grand a week!

And his own butler.

Nick · Apr 13, 2016

ccfctommy said:
Should have offered him 10 grand a week!

We should, then gone batshit mental that he doesn't play and we can't afford to buy Messi any more.

chiefdave · Apr 13, 2016

dongonzalos said:
That's where I see Wasps as a danger.

Same here. There seems to be a lot of people with their heads in the sand about the dangers of Wasps being here to CCFC and CRFC.

Also not convinced that any success we may have in the future is good for Wasps. I suspect success for us would lead to increased crowds and more corporate money coming to us and not Wasps. I would guess that amount lost to Wasps would be far greater than any gain from F&B etc. If I'm right it means its in our landlords best interests to limit our ability to be successful.

rupert_bear · Apr 13, 2016

Grendel said:
Ha ha ha classic.[/QUOTE. What is ?

skybluetony176 · Apr 13, 2016

Otis said:
And his own butler.

Gerard?

italiahorse · Apr 13, 2016

chiefdave said:
Same here. There seems to be a lot of people with their heads in the sand about the dangers of Wasps being here to CCFC and CRFC.

Also not convinced that any success we may have in the future is good for Wasps. I suspect success for us would lead to increased crowds and more corporate money coming to us and not Wasps. I would guess that amount lost to Wasps would be far greater than any gain from F&B etc. If I'm right it means its in our landlords best interests to limit our ability to be successful.

Or with a bit of forward thinking and discussion it could be mutually beneficial.
But hey assume it can't be done and lets get Wasps out and start the whole Sisu mess up where they left off.

We need to concentrate on working together not mutual destruction.

Ashdown · Apr 13, 2016

Grendel said:
You really need to move on from this. Sisu aren't going anywhere. Just work with them and accept it for what it is.

Work with them ? Err how do we do that then ?

SkyBlueZack · Apr 13, 2016

You're on your own with that Italia. Might be beneficial to you but it won't the club. Move on.

dongonzalos · Apr 13, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Grendel said:

Ha ha ha classic.[/QUOTE. What is ?

Click to expand...

He struggles with the truth a bit

Moff · Apr 13, 2016

italiahorse said:
Or with a bit of forward thinking and discussion it could be mutually beneficial.
But hey assume it can't be done and lets get Wasps out and start the whole Sisu mess up where they left off.

We need to concentrate on working together not mutual destruction.

Did you miss OSB's post on Wasps or just bury your head in the sand? He has said it, I have, Dave has and lots of other people. Whether we work with them or not, they are a threat....even if we ever become some sort of partnership or link up.

Take it in and deal with it, as it makes a mockery of what you are writing in the fact that you just continualy ignore that part of the equation.

chiefdave · Apr 13, 2016

italiahorse said:
Or with a bit of forward thinking and discussion it could be mutually beneficial.
But hey assume it can't be done and lets get Wasps out and start the whole Sisu mess up where they left off.

It's my opinion and I'm not the one who makes the decisions so I hardly think what I say is going to have much of an impact. Maybe you could put a counter argument.

The way I see it is pretty much every person / company has a limited amount of disposable income (or advertising budget etc). So lets say person A has £50 to spend a month. They could buy tickets to 2 of our games or 1 of Wasps.

It stands to reason that if we are more successful and therefore crowds increase some of that additional support will be people who were going to watch Wasps. They now don't have enough disposable income to do that as well as watch us. I would suggest that Wasps fans are more likely to jump ship as they are more 'casual' supporters what with them only having been here for five minutes.

I don't see a way that Wasps offset that ticket loss with increased revenues from our games via F&B etc.

Same applies to corporate, sponsorship etc.

The only way I can see them doing it is to whack up the rent to offset the lost ticket revenue and that certainly isn't a mutually beneficial agreement.

rupert_bear · Apr 13, 2016

A threat ? Different sport, pretty much a different fan base, fail to see the threat to be honest. Plenty of other football and rugby teams co-habit with no problems

Grendel · Apr 13, 2016

Leicester about £300 million for premier league football and £36 million wages. Southampton over £100 million and £29 million wages - Bournemouth about the same.

letsallsingtogether · Apr 13, 2016

LB87ccfc said:
The telegraph love a good negative story about the City, wouldn't dare say anything negative about our landlords though.

So you believe it is all lies then??

What negatives are there to be said about our landlords at the moment seem to have it all covered.

Otis · Apr 13, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Gerard?

Was thinking more, Alfred to be honest.

Brylowes · Apr 13, 2016

Nick said:
No, I am just hoping the rules change so Premier League teams can be moved. Then a Premier League team can be drafted in and I can support them instead, that way I might get to see champions league football.

Actually screw it, I might just drive a bit further and support Leicester as they are winning at the minute.

Nick you and Zack and a few others are suggesting fans of our club are wrong for
having a moan,after the utter fucking shitstorm we have had to endure.
Its not about supporting a club that win's,it's about supporting a club that try's to
compete,engage's with the fans and tries to build for the future.
This summer you will all be talking about a top 6-8 budget,but there will be
little mention of the starting point. ie other clubs will have a smaller budget
but will only have to add maybe 4 players to the 1st team squad.
How many do you think our budget will have to stretch to,not to mention
having to wait until the seasons started to get the loans in.
How anyone can even tentatively defend SISU is just beyond me.
I swear if these fucking clowns had Rocked up at any other club they would
of been run out of town by now.

SkyBlueZack · Apr 13, 2016

Another hate sisu rant that misses the point. Congratulations.

Nick · Apr 13, 2016

Brylowes said:
Nick you and Zack and a few others are suggesting fans of our club are wrong for
having a moan,after the utter fucking shitstorm we have had to endure.
Its not about supporting a club that win's,it's about supporting a club that try's to
compete,engage's with the fans and tries to build for the future.
This summer you will all be talking about a top 6-8 budget,but there will be
little mention of the starting point. ie other clubs will have a smaller budget
but will only have to add maybe 4 players to the 1st team squad.
How many do you think our budget will have to stretch to,not to mention
having to wait until the seasons started to get the loans in.
How anyone can even tentatively defend SISU is just beyond me.
I swear if these fucking clowns had Rocked up at any other club they would
of been run out of town by now.

So you are saying that next season we won't have a decent enough squad for League 1 like we did this year? Were you saying this in November?

Would you suggest any blame is on the manager? I doubt it.

Brylowes · Apr 13, 2016

Nick said:
So you are saying that next season we won't have a decent enough squad for League 1 like we did this year? Were you saying this in November?

Would you suggest any blame is on the manager? I doubt it.

I think everyone was taken by surprise by our form upto November including
the manager.Who knows if we will have a good enough squad for league 1
next season,it's a complete re-build again,we have no real platform to
build on . At the end of next season it will be the same thing again,this is no
way to run a football club.

Brylowes · Apr 13, 2016

SkyBlueZack said:
Another hate sisu rant that misses the point. Congratulations.

Another defend SISU at all costs retort. Congratulations

italiahorse · Apr 13, 2016

Moff said:
Did you miss OSB's post on Wasps or just bury your head in the sand? He has said it, I have, Dave has and lots of other people. Whether we work with them or not, they are a threat....even if we ever become some sort of partnership or link up.

Take it in and deal with it, as it makes a mockery of what you are writing in the fact that you just continualy ignore that part of the equation.

No I understand fully, but ...........

We have no alternative but to work with them.
Yes they may be a threat but if Sisu fight them we will have nothing.
JR2 will be our downfall. Sisu have nothing to loose but we could loose our club.

We need to get the most out of Wasps as we can because we are going nowhere.

Coventry City staring into Football Abyss (12 Viewers)

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