Credit to SISU (2 Viewers)

covmark said:

Maybe you're right, but I'd say that the council should take into consideration that CCFC have been an established entity for well over a century regardless of who the owners are. Sisu will not own us forever. I take your point though, Sisu have never at any point helped themselves with all their pissing about.

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I really wish the council had, but I can sort of understand a (admittedly short term) sell it to anyone who's not SISU mentality.

Unfortunately the net result is that we're left up the creek without a .... ummm....stadium.

covmark said:

I take your point though, Sisu have never at any point helped themselves with all their pissing about.

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And the thing is they know this and still did nothing to address it sorry but Sisu are just amateurish, childish bullies, who believe that all should do as they say.
And I say Fuck Um.

DazzleTommyDazzle said:

I really wish the council had, but I can sort of understand a (admittedly short term) sell it to anyone who's not SISU mentality.

Unfortunately the net result is that we're left up the creek without a .... ummm....stadium.

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Nobody wanted it, it was worth nothing and was a white elephant in a shit part of the City....

letsallsingtogether said:

Nobody wanted it, it was worth nothing and was a white elephant in a shit part of the City....

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I think it's called "over-playing your hand".

I'm all for second chances.. But I think it's time to put all that behind us and get behind TM and the team. Why? Because this could be the first time in a very long time where we can all see a bit of success on the pitch and promotion in our sights. #letsbepartofit #pusb


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covmark said:

No, the last time it went through the legal system the judge said the previous judges may have been incorrect. Hence the continuation of the case.

Joy may be in the headlines, but it's for something she said in May ffs.

No one knows how many fans are staying away because of the move away. Correct me if I'm wrong though, our attendances are now higher than pre sixfields.

They were never offered the same deal as an out of town franchise. Sorry to say but that sticks in my throat a little.

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I have no love for Wasps. I agree with the franchise label and feel sorry for their south east based fans who now won't be able to watch them. They are as bad as MK Dons.
I don't think you and I will agree over Sisu. I will finish by saying that they have presided over one of the most disastrous periods in CCFC history. They have taken us to our lowest final league position in over 50 years, one of the lowest finishing positions in our history. During their tenure we have had two of the worst average attendance figures in our history ( the year in Northants probably our worst). Under their leadership we have seen the chances of owning our own stadium almost disappear. Finally, would you call the Sisu regime transparent, one that keeps their customers well informed and truly up to date with what they see as the way forward? Do they tell the truth? Is Tim still really still trying to identify those sites but keeping them secret so that CCC do not step in and spoil things?

Just a few thoughts and yes some questions ......... that should please someone

For me the scales are still heavily balanced in the direction of what they have got wrong rather than what they have got right. But yes they have got some things right. They are not stupid people quite the opposite there are some very clever minds involved but have the successes been because of a SISU plan or a CCFC necessity? And no what has happened to the club has not been all their fault in the wider sense, but the day to day decisions are those of the owners or the people they employ at CCFC/SBS&L - their responsibility

Also I find it strange that it is "SISU is the club" when it suits and "SISU and CCFC are quite separate" when it suits. Can they be separated quite so clearly or at all?

A lot of the successes regarding the team (or failures) are down to the footballing contacts of the football side of the business Mowbray, Venus, Waggott, Pressley etc. In the scheme of things the owner most likely rubber stamps (or not) the financial implications of others decisions made. SISU is pretty much controlled by JS but does anyone really see her with the depth of football knowledge required? Did JS find Mowbray or was it Waggott for example?

Yes the lease needed to be changed/broken but that should have happened in 2008 not 2013. The chosen method has frankly been a disaster which has left us without our own stadium and more importantly significantly reduced income and budgets.

Are we self sufficient? We don't actually know what the current finances are do we? We have been told we are by TF but there is nothing as yet to support this. I always treat anything he says with healthy scepticism. That said self sufficiency is something I have long argued for. But what if we get promoted is it possible to generate the income required to stick to that principle and be successful? We go up next season where does the extra income come from when the owner has indicated CCFC is not getting further monies from them? In doing what they have in directing the finances they have also left the club with massive liabilities. Do we have to be self sufficient simply because JS has said there is no more money to be had from ARVO or SISU? (ie we don't have a choice) Hasn't MV been given responsibility for the football operations budget? That said only one person has overall control of the finances or financial decisions at CCFC/SBS&L and she is sitting in London that includes managers contracts but also the creation of the debt burden.

The move back. Was it a change of thought or was it financial expediency? Had they remained at Sixfields then what would the clubs player budget presently be? The behind scenes operation of CCFC is being operated on a very tight budget , some might say a shoestring, it is no wonder there are problems with tickets, but what could we have financed there?. Was staying at Sixfields really an option? Yes I know there is argument that other influences were at play. But financially what was it CCFC needed?

For me there are contradictions in a lot of what goes on. The needs of CCFC can seem to conflict with those of the owner. For example

We are told that CCFC needs turnover and every penny will go in to the team. Yet the owner does a deal to franchise out the shop and program sales to receive a commission reducing turnover. I can understand why (to reduce risk and costs) but that restricts the player budget doesn't it?
We are told that CCFC needs 100% of stadium income 365 days a year. But the new plan is a joint venture at BPA which means sharing that income doesn't it?
Turnover is key for CCFC, it regulates everything that can be done. However isn't the bottom line more important to SISU so they can add value to their investment?
We are told that the JR 1 & 2 and all the other stuff has nothing to do with the football club but nearly all the court papers name Otium/CCFC so which is it?

To me it is about what picture they choose to put out at any particular time and that picture changes regularly either to something new or reverting to past copies when it suits. So how if that is the case do we know what it is SISU planned to do or what it is they had little or no choice but to do?

Like I said SISU have not got everything wrong but I do think people should be more aware of what drives decisions etc. Not sure their first thought is CCFC

Just my opinion and of course yours might be different. I have no problem with that

That all said the really important thing is the current success on the pitch............ Rightly I think I credit TM with a lot of that success but to be honest what brightens my day is that it is actually happening I do not care who made it happen just keep it up !!!

I will applaud SISU for the appointment of TM and MV etc. but I will never forgive what they put us through.

If we get promotion I will happily hold my hands up and congratulate them. But I won't forgive or forget the past.

I wouldn't give credit to Sisu. They'd only end up renegotiating it in court then repackaging it and selling it on.

Should point out as this is SBT that was nothing more than a bad hedge fund pun and not a serious commentary.

shmmeee said:

Should point out as this is SBT that was nothing more than a bad hedge fund pun and not a serious commentary.

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It has now lost it's merit and impact, sadly. I did actually titter somewhat, beforehand.

I have said several times that I will forgive them if they get us back to where we were when they took over. I am on my way towards this. But I will never forget what they have done to us supporters.

Astute said:

I have said several times that I will forgive them if they get us back to where we were when they took over. I am on my way towards this. But I will never forget what they have done to us supporters.

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Absolutely, can't agree more. Forgetting is the hard part, forgiving is relatively easy when you see tangible progress.

Astute said:

I have said several times that I will forgive them if they get us back to where we were when they took over. I am on my way towards this. But I will never forget what they have done to us supporters.

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I am tempted to say they have done that already when the CCFC went in to administration 2013 compared to 2008 when they came so close it or liquidation

But I understand the sentiment Astute. We need to look at present and forward, we cant change the past, maybe we can influence what is to come

Forgiveness is a necessary part of life otherwise you end up a bitter and twisted person. However, you have to earn that forgiveness... they are on the right tracks but have some way to go.

HUman nature, isn't it? We will write to complain but not to compliment. So, we will complain when they get things wrong but not compliment when they get things right.

I couldn't care, just enjoying the footy.

if we get promoted we will be back where we began with sisu but without council killing us and we will have had some success too(albeit in a lower league)

overall we will be better off?

covcity4life said:

if we get promoted we will be back where we began with sisu but without council killing us and we will have had some success too(albeit in a lower league)

overall we will be better off?

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I think if this squad and management stays together promotion should be gained, we will then be able to see what Sisu are all about. If they invest and let TM bring in players he knows can compete at that level then i will say we are in a better place. If we get there and TM is not given the same control with a decent budget we will be bouncing between Championship and L1. So although today we are doing well on the field are we really ready and turning round off it.

Blinded by current form and all is forgiven talk, will only be granted by me if we get promoted and they, invest, plan for a future and stability or best of all sell....

Chipfat said:

I think if this squad and management stays together promotion should be gained, we will then be able to see what Sisu are all about. If they invest and let TM bring in players he knows can compete at that level then i will say we are in a better place. If we get there and TM is not given the same control with a decent budget we will be bouncing between Championship and L1. So although today we are doing well on the field are we really ready and turning round off it.

Blinded by current form and all is forgiven talk, will only be granted by me if we get promoted and they, invest, plan for a future and stability or best of all sell....

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sounds reasonable to me

The worst owner of the club must be Richardson surely? The whole sorry ricoh saga began with him. The initial debt burdens began with him. The whole mess started with him in my opinion. Maybe if he hadn't been so bad we might never have known who sisu were?
Disclaimer. This is by no means me exonerating sisu of any wrongdoing.

SkyBlueZack said:

The worst owner of the club must be Richardson surely? The whole sorry ricoh saga began with him. The initial debt burdens began with him. The whole mess started with him in my opinion. Maybe if he hadn't been so bad we might never have known who sisu were?
Disclaimer. This is by no means me exonerating sisu of any wrongdoing.

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Agree with every word. He was the catalyst.

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torchomatic said:

Agree with every word. He was the catalyst.

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Robinson

(Worth pointing out the building of the Ricoh has always been a political move... and not just from the council)

Deleted member 5849 said:

Robinson

(Worth pointing out the building of the Ricoh has always been a political move... and not just from the council)

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We'll have to agree to disagree. Whilst not a fan of Robinson at least he put money INTO the club on occasion.


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torchomatic said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Whilst not a fan of Robinson at least he put money INTO the club on occasion.

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He was always the powerbroker.

Much like focussing on Ranson, Dulieu, Fisher would allow SISU off the hook, as they ultimately are in charge and responsible.

He's also responsible for guiding through some truly abysmal deals, in the aim of protecting whatever money he put in, rather than what was best for the club.

skybluesunny said:

I'm all for second chances.. But I think it's time to put all that behind us and get behind TM and the team. Why? Because this could be the first time in a very long time where we can all see a bit of success on the pitch and promotion in our sights. #letsbepartofit #pusb


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Who's not getting behind the team.
Some recon that you cannot support the team if you hate the owners, what a load of codswallop.

I hate the owners but have always backed the team. even went tonight
PUSB

letsallsingtogether said:

Who's not getting behind the team.
Some recon that you cannot support the team if you hate the owners, what a load of codswallop.

I hate the owners but have always backed the team. even went tonight
PUSB

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Fair play but some out there are still claiming they aren't supporting the team by attending matches because of SISU/Fisher/Sepalla etc.

Personally I suspect most of the people claiming this point of view are in fact talking shit and this is just the latest in their line of excuses to not go rather than a genuine stance.

The year Seppala stops appointing SISU people to run the club and steps back to concentrate on court cases...appoints someone who is a football person, we start doing well.....coincidence?

CCFC said:

Fair play but some out there are still claiming they aren't supporting the team by attending matches because of SISU/Fisher/Sepalla etc.

Personally I suspect most of the people claiming this point of view are in fact talking shit and this is just the latest in their line of excuses to not go rather than a genuine stance.

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Who I genuinely don't know any.....

What has changed to make the difference? The manager and the players. NOT the owners, they are the same.

Gazolba said:

What has changed to make the difference? The manager and the players. NOT the owners, they are the same.

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I don't quite get this. If the new players have made a difference and the new manager is given credit for this, why shouldn't the owners get some credit for investing in the new manager?

capel & collindridge said:

I don't quite get this. If the new players have made a difference and the new manager is given credit for this, why shouldn't the owners get some credit for investing in the new manager?

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Invested in a manager. You have to have one don't you?
How much more is he on then SP?

Of course, you have to have one (or sometimes 2?), but it's who you choose. And in this instance they've chosen a real gem!

They deserve more credit for that than most here are giving them. Just my opinion of course.

capel & collindridge said:

Of course, you have to have one (or sometimes 2?), but it's who you choose. And in this instance they've chosen a real gem!

They deserve more credit for that than most here are giving them. Just my opinion of course.

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I thought TM put himself forward to Waggot. Fair Play to Waggot for the contact. I think Joy concentrating on court cases, TF on a non-existant Stadium and CCFC being run as a ( apparently ) self sufficient football Club is the difference. Mowbray probably wouldn't have come here if our CEO was in court and we were in Northampton ( as was the case a short time ago). TF and JS out of the way and the world seems a better place - personalities were a big part of our downfall.