December Stadium Deadline (2 Viewers)

armybike · Sep 22, 2015

Otis said:
Yes, most certainly. We date back over 120 years and have always been the biggest sporting club in the city and with a local pedigree.

I think if we were kicked out with nowhere to go, people would indeed be bothered.

But the issue is that though their actions SISU have become a bigger focal point than CCFC for those who follow local news, but don't bother with the sports section/back pages.

Both the Telegraph and Observer have covered the SISU/ACL/Ricoh situation in great depth and whilst some would say from difference perspectives the CCFC side of things in these articles has been little than a footnote.

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't/don't care about CCFC but for the casual observer the owners have been the ones in the spotlight over the last few years.

shy_tall_knight · Sep 22, 2015

In the PR battle what a lot of Cov fan's on here need to appreciate is how poorly informed the majority of the Coventry population are. Most believe everything is OK now we are back at the Ricoh, others genuinely believe WASPs are going to buy CCFC. The court cases, the Sixfields debacle leading to protest marches etc..the overwhelming majority have SISU as the bad guys and the club as a bit of joke compared to the well oiled / slick marketing they perceive is WASPs, not my views but the views I hear here in Coventry

Otis · Sep 22, 2015

Grendel said:
The club isn't sisu.

Wasps shouldn't be here. People from Coventry accepting them as they have has been in droves will be far more to blame than the clubs owners.

Italia and his type will be far more culpable than Joy Seppella for the shameful way they have accepted franchising as a principal in sport.

Think the simple answer is, if you have a new found love for rugby, go and watch Cov play at the Butts. It is a good level, they are a local team and they have a much richer history that is relevant to this city.

Rusty Trombone · Sep 22, 2015

italiahorse said:
First hand

How are Wasps getting on with building their training ground?

As as reported in the Cov Telegraph back in April...Mr Richardson also confirmed that Wasps want to build a state of the art training and academy facility somewhere in the city in the future and hope to be able to provide more information on that towards the end of the year.

Grendel · Sep 22, 2015

armybike said:
But the issue is that though their actions SISU have become a bigger focal point than CCFC for those who follow local news, but don't bother with the sports section/back pages.

Both the Telegraph and Observer have covered the SISU/ACL/Ricoh situation in great depth and whilst some would say from difference perspectives the CCFC side of things in these articles has been little than a footnote.

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't/don't care about CCFC but for the casual observer the owners have been the ones in the spotlight over the last few years.

That's rubbish. When Land Rover announced their sponsorship of wasps the main reaction was surprise as most assumed Coventry owned the ground and no one had heard of Sisu.

I can assure you the majority of Coventry have never heard of sisu, waggott or fisher or indeed Richardson or Eastwood.

chiefdave · Sep 22, 2015

Grendel said:
I can assure you the majority of Coventry have never heard of sisu, waggott or fisher or indeed Richardson or Eastwood.

Plenty of people who do go to games come out with all sorts of factually incorrect rubbish when talking about the stadium so the chance that the rest of the city that can't even be bothered to turn up know what is going on is slim.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 22, 2015

armybike said:
If Wasps were to boot the club out or raise the rent so that it wasn't financially viable for the club to stay do you think the general population of Coventry would be particularly bothered?

That is the worry.

I mentioned before, but none of the protagonists seem that bothered that there's nowehere in the city for the club to call home. The fact they all seem that way inclined suggests there's not much in it for them to need to pull their collective fingers out.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 22, 2015

Otis said:
Think the simple answer is, if you have a new found love for rugby, go and watch Cov play at the Butts. It is a good level, they are a local team and they have a much richer history that is relevant to this city.

Dave Duckham would be spinning in his grave.

if he wasn't alive and well.

chiefdave · Sep 22, 2015

Just been back to look at exactly what Lucas said when she sold the stadium to Wasps.

'We have sought assurances that Coventry City football club will be able to continue with their current arrangements at the Ricoh, and that Coventry Rugby Club will be fully involved in future rugby discussions with Wasps if a deal goes ahead.'We have received assurances on both of these matters.'

Not sure that gives us much comfort. Clearly she wanted it to be interpreted that there was no problem for us but you could easily take it as Wasps have to honour the 4 year deal and can then do what we like. That's if you even believe it at all, we know the bit about CRFC is bollocks.

armybike · Sep 22, 2015

Otis said:
Think the simple answer is, if you have a new found love for rugby, go and watch Cov play at the Butts. It is a good level, they are a local team and they have a much richer history that is relevant to this city.

Why should people have to watch Cov play?

Whilst this has been mentioned before, and dismissed by some, the sense of the big occasion and family atmosphere (*reply incoming where a mate's mate's neighbour's work colleague was roughed up during a Wasps game!*) is what people are enjoying with Wasps at the Ricoh which you wouldn't get at The Butts.

People are fickle, hence people's dismay/disgust at the sudden love-in many are having with Wasps, and so surely it would follow they'd want what's available at the Ricoh and not watching Cov?

The history of clubs means little to a lot of people.......and why Wasps have seemingly been accepted by some (not all!) people in and around Coventry.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 22, 2015

armybike said:
Why should people have to watch Cov play?

Whilst this has been mentioned before, and dismissed by some, the sense of the big occasion and family atmosphere (*reply incoming where a mate's mate's neighbour's work colleague was roughed up during a Wasps game!*) is what people are enjoying with Wasps at the Ricoh which you wouldn't get at The Butts.

People are fickle, hence people's dismay/disgust at the sudden love-in many are having with Wasps, and so surely it would follow they'd want what's available at the Ricoh and not watching Cov?

The history of clubs means little to a lot of people.......and why Wasps have seemingly been accepted by some (not all!) people in and around Coventry.

Hmm, there's a little bit of right, and a bit of wrong in this in my view. No doubt you're right that a lot is the spectacle and the occasion.

Disagree about the history of clubs however. It doesn't for the one-off, but the club will have uber-fickle fans without the legacy of a sense of place that comes with time. The trick for any newly arrived club is to keep themselves afloat as they try to embed themselves, so that becomes less important.

As it stands, a large high profile start is not surprising for Wasps really. As you say, some will be attracted by the occasion, by curiosity, by whatever. Those people however are also more likely to be attracted by other leisure events on offer elsewhere, so they're more likely to bog off. One thing CCFC does have in its favour is a hardcore of embedded fans who are there because of tradition, the past and the like - Wasps doesn't have them.

The genuinely interesting objective POV is more why someone wouldn't have bought Cov Rugby and spunked a load of money at them to build them up to the Wasps level. In terms of the long term that would have had a better chance of succeeding in my view. In terms of the short term probably not, because there wouldn't have been that curiosity value and the sense of exposure (I'm guessing Wasps also want to piggy-back on the World Cup - so maybe we need to cheer on Wales, Australia... and Uruguay?)

How it plays out over the next 5-10 years will, objectively, be quite interesting.

But yeah, there's already a senior rugby team with a tradition in the city, not to mention Rugby Lions close by so hell, go and watch them if you love your rugby.

armybike · Sep 22, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Hmm, there's a little bit of right, and a bit of wrong in this in my view. No doubt you're right that a lot is the spectacle and the occasion.

Disagree about the history of clubs however. It doesn't for the one-off, but the club will have uber-fickle fans without the legacy of a sense of place that comes with time. The trick for any newly arrived club is to keep themselves afloat as they try to embed themselves, so that becomes less important.

As it stands, a large high profile start is not surprising for Wasps really. As you say, some will be attracted by the occasion, by curiosity, by whatever. Those people however are also more likely to be attracted by other leisure events on offer elsewhere, so they're more likely to bog off. One thing CCFC does have in its favour is a hardcore of embedded fans who are there because of tradition, the past and the like - Wasps doesn't have them.

The genuinely interesting objective POV is more why someone wouldn't have bought Cov Rugby and spunked a load of money at them to build them up to the Wasps level. In terms of the long term that would have had a better chance of succeeding in my view. In terms of the short term probably not, because there wouldn't have been that curiosity value and the sense of exposure (I'm guessing Wasps also want to piggy-back on the World Cup - so maybe we need to cheer on Wales, Australia... and Uruguay?)

How it plays out over the next 5-10 years will, objectively, be quite interesting.

But yeah, there's already a senior rugby team with a tradition in the city, not to mention Rugby Lions close by so hell, go and watch them if you love your rugby.

Sorry, the point I was making about the 'history of clubs means little to a lot of people' was from the wide publics perspective and not those who are fans of a particular club, so the history of Coventry Rugby team wouldn't mean people would by default go and watch them over Wasps out of a sense of local pride or duty.

*Edit - I'd also guess there's a percentage of people who watch Wasps who haven't got the first clue what's going on and so don't 'love' the game enough to go and watch games at the Butts. Fickle!

letsallsingtogether · Sep 22, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Hmm, there's a little bit of right, and a bit of wrong in this in my view. No doubt you're right that a lot is the spectacle and the occasion.

Disagree about the history of clubs however. It doesn't for the one-off, but the club will have uber-fickle fans without the legacy of a sense of place that comes with time. The trick for any newly arrived club is to keep themselves afloat as they try to embed themselves, so that becomes less important.

As it stands, a large high profile start is not surprising for Wasps really. As you say, some will be attracted by the occasion, by curiosity, by whatever. Those people however are also more likely to be attracted by other leisure events on offer elsewhere, so they're more likely to bog off. One thing CCFC does have in its favour is a hardcore of embedded fans who are there because of tradition, the past and the like - Wasps doesn't have them.

The genuinely interesting objective POV is more why someone wouldn't have bought Cov Rugby and spunked a load of money at them to build them up to the Wasps level. In terms of the long term that would have had a better chance of succeeding in my view. In terms of the short term probably not, because there wouldn't have been that curiosity value and the sense of exposure (I'm guessing Wasps also want to piggy-back on the World Cup - so maybe we need to cheer on Wales, Australia... and Uruguay?)

How it plays out over the next 5-10 years will, objectively, be quite interesting.

But yeah, there's already a senior rugby team with a tradition in the city, not to mention Rugby Lions close by so hell, go and watch them if you love your rugby.

Is it not any different then all those people that support a premier league team rather then there home team.
Most people want top class entertainment watching the best sportsmen in the best leagues.

We really are in the minority.
PUSB

capel & collindridge · Sep 22, 2015

I didn't really believe the Club when they said they'd get us a really good manager. I didn't really believe the new manager when he said he'd get us a really good team. But they have.

So now I'm quite prepared to believe that we'll get a new stadium. I hope we do.

Anything that will get us away from the malign influence of a city council who have demonstrated time and again that they would rather pursue a vendetta with the club's owners than support the best interests of the club and its supporters.

I know this is not a popular view on here, but it's not as if I have any ulterior motive. I've been a Labour voter all my life and don't see any political principle in what CCC has done. Just malice and a lack of concern for the sporting traditions of the city.

italiahorse · Sep 22, 2015

Grendel said:
The club isn't sisu.

Wasps shouldn't be here. People from Coventry accepting them as they have has been in droves will be far more to blame than the clubs owners.

Italia and his type will be far more culpable than Joy Seppella for the shameful way they have accepted franchising as a principal in sport.

Don't make me laugh.
CCFC have been my life and Wasps haven't changed that.
Sisu have not finished yet and time is running out fast.

Moff · Sep 22, 2015

italiahorse said:
I'm now saying it's too late, they are all but established financially and another couple of years they will become one of the richest rugby clubs in the world.

I think the premise that Wasps will soon be one of the richest rugby clubs in the world, is a fact peddled only by wasps themsleves and repeated verbatim in the press. It is quite possibly a huge fallacy, and as yet there is no actual fact in that statement.

There is actually no proof of this, so lets just wait and see how rich they are in a few years when the bonds have to be paid back. I suspect that they wont be as rich as they envisage, with debts a plenty but one very rich owner, and CEO.

Calista · Sep 22, 2015

duffer said:
I'm afraid the worn out line that Wasps aren't from London is utter bullshit trotted out to pretend that this isn't somehow a franchise. I can live with people supporting Wasps, if that's what they want to do and they can live with themselves doing it. What I can't tolerate is this sort of rubbish being used to justify that behaviour.

Even their owner accepted when he bought them that they were a West London club, and to date the RFU have insisted they keep their academy there. The only reason they're at the Ricoh is because it makes more money for the owners.

Anything else is an abject pretence, and as boring as getting into this row again is, it should be challenged every time it's trotted out. 'Nomads' my arse, basically.

I get what you are saying, but you misread me – I don’t pretend it’s not a franchise. I think it’s a franchise that has brought big sport to Coventry, and I’m not prepared to get on a high horse and tell people they are wrong to enjoy it, or say that the city should have turned down the benefits.

Wasps shouldn’t have left London, but they did and over more than a decade they changed their fan base 80% to the Wycombe area. People could hardly kick up a riot when another (more viable) move happened - that’s why there was barely a whimper. The crux of it is - why take a moral stance on behalf of people who either don’t much care, or are actually delighted because their club has moved onto another level?

There must be ways for the interests of the two clubs to be aligned under one roof. Under current ownership arrangements that’s hard (one club as landlord, the other as tenant), but things change. I still think someone can find a way for CCFC to thrive alongside Wasps, rather than just permanently playing the victim.

chiefdave · Sep 23, 2015

letsallsingtogether said:
Is it not any different then all those people that support a premier league team rather then there home team.
Most people want top class entertainment watching the best sportsmen in the best leagues.

The difference would be if you were a football fan from Coventry you would have grown up either supporting us or, as you say, one of the big Premier League teams. Surely the same applies here, if you were a rugby fan from Coventry wouldn't you have grown up either supporting CRFC or, if as you say, people prefer to support a top level team then Leicester or Northampton.

The frustration is that people who have shown zero interest in either their local team or rugby in general are now flocking to the Ricoh in their thousands supporting a team dropped in from 85 miles away.

If for some reason Crystal Palace were suddenly moved to Coventry would you expect people to stop supporting us a become Palace supporters instead? Personally I'd be a bit pissed off if we were playing to 10K and Palace rocked up and got double that.

armybike · Sep 23, 2015

chiefdave said:
The frustration is that people who have shown zero interest in either their local team or rugby in general are now flocking to the Ricoh in their thousands supporting a team dropped in from 85 miles away.

People have given it a go, liked what they've seen and gone back.

As other people has posted the atmosphere at rugby games is different to that of football.

Plus the entertainment and family atmosphere makes the experience one that just adds to this.

CCFC are now replicating aspects of this, so must realise the advantages of it.

The view that rugby supports are all middle/upper class blokes, swigging pints, showing their arses and singing inappropriate songs is totally misplaced.

Whilst some people are hoping Wasps full on their arses I'd predict in five years time they'll still be at their own stadium. CCFC won't be at their own one.

SISU need to start being realistic about their predicament and stop all pedalling of false/misinformation regarding the new stadium and get the best deal they can at the Ricoh. Wasps also need to play a huge part in this and agree reasonable terms and not see CCFC as a cash cow.

skybluesam66 · Sep 23, 2015

Wasps are really at the peak of interest and fan base (remember when ccfc started at the ricoh with 20k + crowds)

CCFC have much more potential (if we could ever get going)

This is what could change the dynamics going forward

armybike · Sep 23, 2015

skybluesam66 said:
Wasps are really at the peak of interest and fan base (remember when ccfc started at the ricoh with 20k + crowds)

It's possible the Rugby World Cup could increase their attendance.

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2015

Norman Lockhart said:
I get what you are saying, but you misread me – I don’t pretend it’s not a franchise. I think it’s a franchise that has brought big sport to Coventry, and I’m not prepared to get on a high horse and tell people they are wrong to enjoy it, or say that the city should have turned down the benefits.

Wasps shouldn’t have left London, but they did and over more than a decade they changed their fan base 80% to the Wycombe area. People could hardly kick up a riot when another (more viable) move happened - that’s why there was barely a whimper. The crux of it is - why take a moral stance on behalf of people who either don’t much care, or are actually delighted because their club has moved onto another level?

There must be ways for the interests of the two clubs to be aligned under one roof. Under current ownership arrangements that’s hard (one club as landlord, the other as tenant), but things change. I still think someone can find a way for CCFC to thrive alongside Wasps, rather than just permanently playing the victim.

Would you be saying the same if we moved back to Northampton? Would you expect their fans to have the same attitude if we did?

Wasn't their a petition when they moved to Coventry? I work with a couple of ex-wasps fans who turned their backs on the club after they moved.

If that is your attitude to the situation, then you have no right to complain of we become a franchise ourselves then, especially if it offers to take us to the next level.

stupot07 · Sep 23, 2015

skybluesam66 said:
Wasps are really at the peak of interest and fan base (remember when ccfc started at the ricoh with 20k + crowds)

CCFC have much more potential (if we could ever get going)

This is what could change the dynamics going forward

Not to mention when they stop throwing free tickets left, right and centre.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

stupot07 · Sep 23, 2015

armybike said:
It's possible the Rugby World Cup could increase their attendance.

This season, Sams talking about the gradual decline over 5-6 years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2015

armybike said:
It's possible the Rugby World Cup could increase their attendance.

I'm not so sure, if you aren't a rugby fan you'd have little idea its even on at the moment.

In 5-10 years I can't see them being as successful as they like to think, hopefully they'll be in massive financial trouble and finally leave the city.

armybike · Sep 23, 2015

stupot07 said:
This season, Sams talking about the gradual decline over 5-6 years.

He said - "Wasps are really at the peak of interest and fan base" - I said the World Cup could increase the numbers. If this did happen they haven't peaked as things stand today.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 23, 2015

armybike said:
He said - "Wasps are really at the peak of interest and fan base" - I said the World Cup could increase the numbers. If this did happen they haven't peaked as things stand today.

I'm sure they're hoping it does.

So... go Wales

stupot07 · Sep 23, 2015

armybike said:
He said - "Wasps are really at the peak of interest and fan base" - I said the World Cup could increase the numbers. If this did happen they haven't peaked as things stand today.

Fair enough, I suppose it depends how many freebies they give out and how well we are doing. He may be right, it's not as if our crowds go up after a World Cup.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

armybike · Sep 23, 2015

Sick Boy said:
I'm not so sure, if you aren't a rugby fan you'd have little idea its even on at the moment.

In 5-10 years I can't see them being as successful as they like to think, hopefully they'll be in massive financial trouble and finally leave the city.

I think the response to the Japan game proves that non-rugby fans are watching and fully aware of the WC.

Why would them being in financial trouble mean they have to leave the city? Lots of sporting teams are in the red, but don't up sticks and move away.

JimmyHillsbeard · Sep 23, 2015

italiahorse said:
I have a ticket for Wasps along with my CCFC Season ticket for what will be my 48th season of supporting.
Is it relevant ?

It might be when they start playing Rugby on *their* pitch and ruin the passing style which has characterised the early season delight.

skybluesam66 · Sep 23, 2015

absolutely - forget any world cup boosts - and leicester will always be a big gate (due to leicester supporters) - but interest will wain over the years

Look at the rugby world cup - yes people go to games - I talk at work to Rugby fans (1 is even a wasps STH) and they dont really watch that many games - The pubs arent full etc etc

Rugby is not football and never will be - and therefore this initial excitement of premier league rugby will die away

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 23, 2015

armybike said:
I think the response to the Japan game proves that non-rugby fans are watching and fully aware of the WC.

Why would them being in financial trouble mean they have to leave the city? Lots of sporting teams are in the red, but don't up sticks and move away.

This one does have a track record of placing finance above place however

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2015

One thing I don't understand is why some feel the need to defend them and deflect away any negativity?

I don't remember Northampton fans doing the same when we were there. They are a franchise and always will be; they'll never be as big as CCFC.

armybike · Sep 23, 2015

skybluesam66 said:
absolutely - forget any world cup boosts - and leicester will always be a big gate (due to leicester supporters) - but interest will wain over the years

Look at the rugby world cup - yes people go to games - I talk at work to Rugby fans (1 is even a wasps STH) and they dont really watch that many games - The pubs arent full etc etc

Rugby is not football and never will be - and therefore this initial excitement of premier league rugby will die away

Forget any World Cup boost? Why?

Rugby fans don't watch that many games? Really!? How large was your research group?

Pubs aren't full? Again, maybe not those you use but that's somewhat of a sweeping generalisation.

Why would rugby want to be football? It's a totally different makeup and again your hope Wasps will fall on their arse is clouding your judgement on the situation CCFC are currently facing.

This thread is about the stadium situation. Wasps have one. CCFC don't.

Moff · Sep 23, 2015

armybike said:
It's possible the Rugby World Cup could increase their attendance.

Like after most World Cups there will be a spike, and then a drop.

It will be inetersting to see how Wasps attendances pan out, once the quota of free tickets drops.

December Stadium Deadline (2 Viewers)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency