Diamonds are forever (1 Viewer)

There was nothing wrong with the formation except that the players did not follow it. At one point Jennings, Kilbane and Baker were in a straight line through the middle leaving Hussey with nobody to pass to and playing it long. The movement when we had the ball was none existent especially first half. It was only when the players injected some tempo in the 2nd half that we looked like scoring.

Slightly off topic but we really need to maximise our corner count this season ,think with height within the team we will score a significant number of goals from set pieces,at least four early in the second half that had them all over the place and the fifth being the discounted one.

I don't think formation is the problem, it is the tempo that we play at. 10 passes when two would do allow the opposition to re-group our best spell in the second half was when we upped the tempo, our goal was as direct as is possible a long punt followed by a couple of touches.

shy_tall_knight said:

I don't think formation is the problem, it is the tempo that we play at. 10 passes when two would do allow the opposition to re-group our best spell in the second half was when we upped the tempo, our goal was as direct as is possible a long punt followed by a couple of touches.

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yep route one with a lovely assist off Cody.

First half we had little pace or tempo..... and very little movement. The difference between the two teams was whan a Sheff player received the ball he looked to go forward, CCFC players almost always received the ball standing still and often played it square or backwards. To be fair to AT he stood on the touchline waving his arms about trying to get the players forward

Second half we appeared to go 4 1 3 2 it looked and was more attacking. We put pressure on the ball in their half and looked to get the ball forward quicker. We still lack pace and enough movement but it was much better. We did tire in last 15 minutes which is a concern as it cost us too many times last season .... surely we should be fitter ( other teams appear to be)

..i think we are 'over fit' to coin a phrase if you will.

Think that when you train too hard physically you will be tired not fitter? Some coaches work their charges too much not knowing where the fine line between fitness and performance related fitness is. No coincidence perhaps that we are lengendary at having regular injuries in our suads?

McPake is a galring example...no such injury concerns for him since moving away?

Tired at the start of a season...I've never heard so many excuses.

possibly Paxman ...... certainly the right rest and preparation is essential. I am not sure that the specific depth of knowledge is there in the coaches because we do not have a full time fitness coach. I look back at how fit Boothroyd got the team and compare to how they are under the current regime and something seems lacking. The team has for over a year now seemed to have had a problem lasting out the games.

Last night i dont think anyone could argue we worked harder than Sheff Utd, certainly first half there was little movement or tempo to expend a lot of energy. Yet Sheff Utd seemed to have more energy at the end... yes i know they were chasing the game but running out of energy happens too often at CCFC for it to be a coincidence. Perhaps it is also a lack of mental toughness too ?

You need to be able pass and have a high work ethic to make the diamond work and the first half last night showed we had neither.

Its sometimes difficult to pick out subtle changes in formation which make a difference but I think we slightly tweaked it in the second half which put us more on the front foot. It might just have been that we actually put some effort in but we did seem to be putting pressure on higher up the pitch.

I feel sorry for our full backs with the diamond as there is no ball up the line for them to play most the time which puts them under pressure to lump it, play the suicide pass or go backwards.

The diamond itself shouldn't be a problem. It should just be a 4-4-2 with 1 ball winner and a creative midfielder with one pushing up and 1 staying back. It would work much better like this:


..............................Jennings
Barton..............................................Kilbane ( or someone quicker )
...............................Fleck ( Baker while he is injured )



The problem is we are playing like this:

............................Jennings


.................Barton................Kilbane..............


..............................Fleck


(ok a slight exaggeration to make a point, but you get the picture... too narrow!! )

oldskyblue58 said:

First half we had little pace or tempo..... and very little movement. The difference between the two teams was whan a Sheff player received the ball he looked to go forward, CCFC players almost always received the ball standing still and often played it square or backwards. To be fair to AT he stood on the touchline waving his arms about trying to get the players forward

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The problem is passing forward means more likely to give away possession then loads of fans start jumping up and down screaming and getting on the players back

Diehard Si said:

The diamond itself shouldn't be a problem. It should just be a 4-4-2 with 1 ball winner and a creative midfielder with one pushing up and 1 staying back. It would work much better like this:


..............................Jennings
Barton..............................................Kilbane ( or someone quicker )
...............................Fleck ( Baker while he is injured )



The problem is we are playing like this:

............................Jennings


.................Barton................Kilbane..............


..............................Fleck


(ok a slight exaggeration to make a point, but you get the picture... too narrow!! )

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Then you leave a big gap in the middle for the opposition to play in as Jennings is too deep and Fleck too high. That is why 4-4-2 is preferred when playing with proper wide players
Besides the point that Barton is a central midfielder and Kilbane is too slow to play as a proper wide player

the problem if we dont is that we dont score or threaten to score..... fans dont like that either. If you are going to be successful you have to take reasonable risk. Players more likely to give it away because they are risk averse or tentative when passing forward. We are too deliberate in our build up

CCFC said:

Then you leave a big gap in the middle for the opposition to play in as Jennings is too deep and Fleck too high. That is why 4-4-2 is preferred when playing with proper wide players
Besides the point that Barton is a central midfielder and Kilbane is too slow to play as a proper wide player

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Barton I think would be ok, but Kilbane isn't. I'd have him left back and bring in a winger to play there personally. But hey ho.

oldskyblue58 said:

the problem if we dont is that we dont score or threaten to score..... fans dont like that either. If you are going to be successful you have to take reasonable risk. Players more likely to give it away because they are risk averse or tentative when passing forward. We are too deliberate in our build up

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It's lack of confidence heightened by fear of failure. It's that lingering negativity and doubt from relegation.

A few wins and we might forget all about it.... ( i hope )

oldskyblue58 said:

the problem if we dont is that we dont score or threaten to score..... fans dont like that either. If you are going to be successful you have to take reasonable risk. Players more likely to give it away because they are risk averse or tentative when passing forward. We are too deliberate in our build up

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I agree but if we try and play a forward/attacking pass and it goes wrong all our fans moan, the players confidence is shot and next time he will go for the safe square pass passing responsibility onto another player

I think Baker suffered from this last night, in my eyes he was the player most looking to create a chance or play someone in actually trying to create a chance rather than wait for one to present itself. Obviously not everything came off for him and he got a lot of stick because of this

speedie87 said:

Can't see thorn ever changing tactics, anyone else notice how narrow the pitch is this season, presume that is to help us defend.

We should be making the pitch as big as possible to help us break down teams who come to defend

Plus why why why do we never bring subs on before it's too late!

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We don,t have Willie Humphreys & Ronnie Rees or Tommy Hutch & Quinton Young or anyone who could lace their boots
I would hazard a guess thats why the pitch is so narrow.

CCFC said:

I agree but if we try and play a forward/attacking pass and it goes wrong all our fans moan, the players confidence is shot and next time he will go for the safe square pass passing responsibility onto another player

I think Baker suffered from this last night, in my eyes he was the player most looking to create a chance or play someone in actually trying to create a chance rather than wait for one to present itself. Obviously not everything came off for him and he got a lot of stick because of this

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But that is where a good coach comes in to the equation. IF he has a clear plan of what he is trying to achieve and how to do it he can instill belief and mental strength into the players to keep trying it. The more they do it the better they will become at it.... will learn more from mistakes than keep safe football.

If i were coach I would be telling the players to try to block out the crowd and focus on their football. Some of the rubbish and booing coming from our fans basically makes them irrelevant in getting the best from the team anyway...... infact they become a disadvantage making players scared to perform (as you point out)

Last night our best period of play was in the second half where we moved the ball quickly and forward....... taking it to the extreme for the goal you could say (no i am not advocating hoofball or simple route 1 but there are times it works)......... first half AT was gesticulating at the players to get forward and they sat back, so he wants the team higher up the pitch. The team proved they could pass forward quickly and well ..... now they have to prove they can do it consistently for all of a game.

Unfortunately the fans always have to have a player or two to pick on..... is hard for Baker to do anything right for some, even heard fans slagging him off for perfectly good passes !