Did Fisher Sanction Cole's Signing? (1 Viewer)

CCFC said:

He's just saying the 11,000 isn't a concrete figure set in stone. Its dependent on the assumption of the average ticket price.

If we gave away 5,000 free tickets for every game and averaged 11k, that wouldn't be anywhere near enough revenue to meet the budget. Likewise if we had everyone paying full adult price of £20 then attendances of 9k would be enough to meet budget needs with some left over.

Stop focusing on the 11,000. When Waggot says we need/budgeted for crowds of 11,000, what is left unsaid is that the 11,000 attendees need to be paying an average of X amount per ticket to meet the budget needs.

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You would think that the man who originally quoted the 11000 figure would or at least should be aware of how many free tickets are going to be given away over the course of the year when he came up with the figure of 11000 wouldn't you?

Surely knowing ALL the figures is his job.

skybluetony176 said:

You would think that the man who originally quoted the 11000 figure would or at least should be aware of how many free tickets are going to be given away over the course of the year when he came up with the figure of 11000 wouldn't you?

Surely knowing ALL the figures is his job.

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As the quote comes from an article referring to the selling price of season and other tickets, you can reasonably assume he is referring to paid tickets

In using that figure I assume he knows averagely what income he can expect

oldfiver said:

As the quote comes from an article referring to the selling price of season and other tickets, you can reasonably assume he is referring to paid tickets

In using that figure I assume he knows averagely what income he can expect

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http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-need-11000-9801357

If you're talking about this interview it says:
According to the minutes of the meeting, published on the club’s official website, Mr Waggott told the SCG: “The Football League will be monitoring the walk up attendances, as the playing squad budget has been based on average home gates of 11,000.”

I wasn't present at the SCG, maybe you were and he gave a fuller break down that wasn't reported but when it says "based on average home gates of 11'000" i don't think it's unreasonable to expect the CEO to understand what of that 11'000 will consist off as regards to paying customers and free tickets. I'm assuming of course that they have planned ahead on how many free tickets they plan to distribute throughout this season. Certainly in this article it doesn't refer to 11'000 paying customers, it refers to home gates. As grendull has already pointed out the two don't mean the same thing.

skybluetony176 said:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-need-11000-9801357

If you're talking about this interview it says:
According to the minutes of the meeting, published on the club’s official website, Mr Waggott told the SCG: “The Football League will be monitoring the walk up attendances, as the playing squad budget has been based on average home gates of 11,000.”

I wasn't present at the SCG, maybe you were and he gave a fuller break down that wasn't reported but when it says "based on average home gates of 11'000" i don't think it's unreasonable to expect the CEO to understand what of that 11'000 will consist off as regards to paying customers and free tickets. I'm assuming of course that they have planned ahead on how many free tickets they plan to distribute throughout this season. Certainly in this article it doesn't refer to 11'000 paying customers, it refers to home gates. As grendull has already pointed out the two don't mean the same thing.

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I understand what the headline says but the detail is much clearer
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/...eve-waggott-201516-coventry-city-2466917.aspx

oldfiver said:

I understand what the headline says but the detail is much clearer
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/...eve-waggott-201516-coventry-city-2466917.aspx

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Not really

“We’ve had a great response since Tony Mowbray signed on the dotted line and we hope to see even stronger sales over the next couple of weeks. If we can get 11,000 plus through the turnstiles each week, it will undoubtedly assist our push for promotion – and Season Ticket holders will play a big part in that.”

Again I would expect that 11,000 through the turnstiles to be a mix of paying and non paying customers. Whether that be full price season tickets, early bird season tickets, consessions, JSB's, free tickets or any promotions and I would also expect that SW did his sums on that basis. It would be silly not to surely.

As TF is a director of Otium then of course he was involved in the decision to take Cole on. Silly to think otherwise. However TM is working within the player budget that has been set by the directors and the role of the directors SW/TF is to rubber stamp or not the deals within that budget. Or are we now saying TM etc do not control the playing budget?

The playing budget is set by the Football League calculation agreed with the club based on the level of income received (not the number of people through the gate) as such it can be subject to fluctuation. The playing budget forms part of the overall budget for the club. It seems to me that the players budget is the one being referred to in the articles. So I think it is wrong to assume that 11000 crowds translates in to the club breaking even....... the 11000 average translates, using the assumptions the directors set regarding average price, ST take up, free tickets etc etc in to a playing budget they estimated at the beginning of the year. Their budget model is based on an assumption of 11000 average generating a certain level of income...... that will be affected by the ST takeup where tickets per game are heavily discounted and the actual walk up attendance that is not discounted or how many concessions or free tickets are issued or even the spend on programmes, F&B, add on sales like kit etc - ie the sales mix. If the original assumptions were wrong or miscalculated then the 11000 is meaningless. That player budget is also subject to regular monitoring by the FL.

Unless we know the assumptions made by the directors then we have no idea whether 11000 means anything at all..... so its pointless hanging our hat on that figure

Does the fact that we are over 11000 average currently mean the club is not loss making..... maybe but also maybe not. The 11000 is an annual figure we seem to be comparing it to a rolling weekly average. But in any case the 11000 refers to the player budget not the total budget of the club for the year.

Is there a need for the owners to provide cashflow .... possibly we don't know. Certainly the start of the financial year (June to early August) would have had no match day income but still have had considerable costs going out..... that might imply a cash shortage to be covered. Did the club receive any extras in terms of income (player sale add ons for example) to cover the shortage? we don't know. Had the club built up funds to cover the shortage by not paying out costs for example? Did it require cash flow short term from the owners? Has the increased attendance covered possible early financial year shortfalls? who knows.

Bottom line is that the 11000 is not a precise figure, it sets a target attendance for fans certainly but the devil is in the detail and we simply wont ever know that. It could even be a marketing tool to "pressure" fans to buy so we can get a team. It is a public target to "build" a the original playing budget around it is not the total annual budget for OEG Ltd and does not give much indication of profitability or otherwise for the company. Its an educated guess for the player budget assumptions nothing more. It is not the reality of the finances

<END OF THREAD>! Thanks OSB

skybluetony176 said:

You would think that the man who originally quoted the 11000 figure would or at least should be aware of how many free tickets are going to be given away over the course of the year when he came up with the figure of 11000 wouldn't you?

Surely knowing ALL the figures is his job.

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No I doubt he would know with certainty all free tickets that will be given away over the year, I doubt all ticket promotions, special offers to Schools/local football teams and other things are prepared a year in advance.

skybluetony176 said:

Not really

“We’ve had a great response since Tony Mowbray signed on the dotted line and we hope to see even stronger sales over the next couple of weeks. If we can get 11,000 plus through the turnstiles each week, it will undoubtedly assist our push for promotion – and Season Ticket holders will play a big part in that.”

Again I would expect that 11,000 through the turnstiles to be a mix of paying and non paying customers. Whether that be full price season tickets, early bird season tickets, consessions, JSB's, free tickets or any promotions and I would also expect that SW did his sums on that basis. It would be silly not to surely.

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Obviously I used extreme examples to illustrate the point, the club should be able to predict the average ticket price with a reasonable degree of accuracy but inevitably its likely there prediction will have a margin of error due to various reasons and thus the 11,000 isn't etched in stone which people don't seem to understand.

Grendel said:

That's what I'm saying - the 11,000 is just a number plucked out the air but it's a revenue assumption not a crowd assumption. On a cash flow basis the club is some way from self sufficiency.

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I believe that figure was picked before all season tickets were sold.
So if what we are lead to beiieve is true that sales were down on what they expected, then that in turn has been a good thing for the club so far.
As a season ticket holder you get to watch the game for about £15 as a walk up it is generally £20.
So the club are getting the gates they required, but are also getting a bigger persentage paying full price.
That surely is a good thing for the finances of the club.