Disabled supporters story

[Sky Blue Pete]

Anger as Coventry City FC axes some free tickets for carers

Coventry City FC says the change is in line with other clubs, but a charity has advised them not to.

www.bbc.co.uk

Quite a balanced piece - if anyone knows of anyone asking for their needs to be considered and still refused can they let me know?

 

[chiefdave]

Not really sure why we are being singled out when plenty of venues are clamping down on free tickets due to people abusing the system.

The first case surely falls under "the ticket office will consider all examples such as these on a case-by-case basis", if an U14 requires more than one carer wouldn't common sense say the first would be the person paying under the 'all under-14s in the arena to be accompanied by an adult" rule and then additional carers can be issued with carers tickets at the ticket offices discretion. Doesn't read like they've requested that and been refused.

The other example given seems to be missing some key detail as all it says is that the parent can't afford a ticket and even if they could they wouldn't be able to go anyway as they have another younger child! Not really sure what the club are expected to do in that scenario.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not really sure why we are being singled out when plenty of venues are clamping down on free tickets due to people abusing the system.

The first case surely falls under "the ticket office will consider all examples such as these on a case-by-case basis", if an U14 requires more than one carer wouldn't common sense say the first would be the person paying under the 'all under-14s in the arena to be accompanied by an adult" rule and then additional carers can be issued with carers tickets at the ticket offices discretion. Doesn't read like they've requested that and been refused.

The other example given seems to be missing some key detail as all it says is that the parent can't afford a ticket and even if they could they wouldn't be able to go anyway as they have another younger child! Not really sure what the club are expected to do in that scenario.

Agreed

 

[napolimp]

Not really sure why we are being singled out when plenty of venues are clamping down on free tickets due to people abusing the system.

The first case surely falls under "the ticket office will consider all examples such as these on a case-by-case basis", if an U14 requires more than one carer wouldn't common sense say the first would be the person paying under the 'all under-14s in the arena to be accompanied by an adult" rule and then additional carers can be issued with carers tickets at the ticket offices discretion. Doesn't read like they've requested that and been refused.

The other example given seems to be missing some key detail as all it says is that the parent can't afford a ticket and even if they could they wouldn't be able to go anyway as they have another younger child! Not really sure what the club are expected to do in that scenario.

I think it's pointless to report the story from a financial perspective, because not being able to afford a season ticket to the football is not mutually exclusive to either being disabled or a carer. And it's not the clubs duty to ensure people who are struggling financially can attend the football.

I think this is literally a case of ensuring disabled people aren't excluded due to requiring assistance at the stadium, and not having someone who is willing to pay for a ST if they don't qualify under higher level DLA.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think it's pointless to report the story from a financial perspective, because not being able to afford a season ticket to the football is not mutually exclusive to either being disabled or a carer. And it's not the clubs duty to ensure people who are struggling financially can attend the football.

I think this is literally a case of ensuring disabled people aren't excluded due to requiring assistance at the stadium, and not having someone who is willing to pay for a ST if they don't qualify under higher level DLA.

Agreed

 

[oakey]

On principle I think that making large concessions to families and adults with multiple children is not matched with concessions for disabled people with complex needs.
Why should parents be given access to very cheap tickets but disabled people are expected to repeatedly demonstrate they need help?
The argument that some people take advantage is frankly insulting to disabled fans.
The club have let fans down badly on this.

 

[chiefdave]

The argument that some people take advantage is frankly insulting to disabled fans.

Surely if anyone is insulting disabled fans it's the people making false claims causing a disproportionate number of tickets being issued which has led to a clampdown.

 

[oakey]

Surely if anyone is insulting disabled fans it's the people making false claims causing a disproportionate number of tickets being issued which has led to a clampdown.

Both can be true.

 

[David O'Day]

On principle I think that making large concessions to families and adults with multiple children is not matched with concessions for disabled people with complex needs.
Why should parents be given access to very cheap tickets but disabled people are expected to repeatedly demonstrate they need help?
The argument that some people take advantage is frankly insulting to disabled fans.
The club have let fans down badly on this.

It's not insulting though as it's true, the same way that people used to get in on kids tickets.

The club has to try and stop people abusing the system and they have said they will try and help people with genuine needs.

 

[Nick]

On principle I think that making large concessions to families and adults with multiple children is not matched with concessions for disabled people with complex needs.
Why should parents be given access to very cheap tickets but disabled people are expected to repeatedly demonstrate they need help?
The argument that some people take advantage is frankly insulting to disabled fans.
The club have let fans down badly on this.

Some fans do take advantage. It's a fact

 

[oakey]

Some fans do take advantage. It's a fact

Like some do with Family zone tickets. Nobody suggests it should be made more difficult for families as a result. Quite the reverse, there was a long thread on here calling changes to the Family zone tickets a retrograde move.
We don't do enough for disabled fans currently. I sit in a bay as a carer. Here's just a few examples
1. Access to the bay is difficult as the entrance is next to the Camden ale bar. People block the entrance and the disabled toilet door.
Children sit or play in the tunnel.
2. The wheelchair users sit in a massive puddle as the roof above leaks.
3. At the final whistle hordes of fans open the gate at the side of the bay and use it as a short cut to the concourse.
I could go on but you get the point.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think individual circumstances have been dealt with well

 

[Skybluekyle]

From the outside looking in, the club obviously has to perform the delicate dance of supporting disable supporters and meeting its legal responsibilities, but also to protect its business.

Obviously I will defer to those directly impacted, but at the minute, I think we can hope the club listens to any issues that may arise and acts accordingly. Good to see Pete will take the initiate if anything comes up that he becomes aware.

 

[Flying Fokker]

I think those on low PIP rates are on that for a reason.

One guy I know is on low level PiP. He’s clearly in need of some support with finances and daily living as he squanders his money. He’s a concessionary ST holder and travels to home and away games with his family member who sometimes chooses not to go. Does he deserve a concession any more than a guy scraping his cash together to follow the City?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think those on low PIP rates are on that for a reason.

One guy I know is on low level PiP. He’s clearly in need of some support with finances and daily living as he squanders his money. He’s a concessionary ST holder and travels to home and away games with his family member who sometimes chooses not to go. Does he deserve a concession any more than a guy scraping his cash together to follow the City?

No

 

[Kubrick]

No

This is a disappointing attitude. Disabled households face extra costs, not every disabled household is able to meet the extra cost of disability. Even after taking PIP (designed to help offset these costs) into account, the average disabled household (including at least one disabled adult or child) faces extra costs of £975 per month. Scope’s research, not a number I’ve plucked out of the air.

The club should have included people with disabilities (and carers) in the decision making process. Nothing about us without us.

Disability Price Tag 2023: the extra cost of disability | Disability charity Scope UK

Our latest research shows the extra costs disabled households face.

www.scope.org.uk

 

[Nick]

This is a disappointing attitude. Disabled households face extra costs, not every disabled household is able to meet the extra cost of disability. Even after taking PIP (designed to help offset these costs) into account, the average disabled household (including at least one disabled adult or child) faces extra costs of £975 per month. Scope’s research, not a number I’ve plucked out of the air.

The club should have included people with disabilities (and carers) in the decision making process. Nothing about us without us.

Disability Price Tag 2023: the extra cost of disability | Disability charity Scope UK

Our latest research shows the extra costs disabled households face.

www.scope.org.uk

Isn't it based on the disability and whether they physically need a carer with them?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This is a disappointing attitude. Disabled households face extra costs, not every disabled household is able to meet the extra cost of disability. Even after taking PIP (designed to help offset these costs) into account, the average disabled household (including at least one disabled adult or child) faces extra costs of £975 per month. Scope’s research, not a number I’ve plucked out of the air.

The club should have included people with disabilities (and carers) in the decision making process. Nothing about us without us.

Disability Price Tag 2023: the extra cost of disability | Disability charity Scope UK

Our latest research shows the extra costs disabled households face.

www.scope.org.uk

It was a specific answer to a specific question
I think struggling to pay comes in many different guises
Many families with disabled children struggle financially and probably on balance more than those without but the principle is if there is a special circumstance to discuss with the club
I think they’ve been supportive of the ones I’ve heard about

 

[chiefdave]

This is a disappointing attitude. Disabled households face extra costs, not every disabled household is able to meet the extra cost of disability. Even after taking PIP (designed to help offset these costs) into account, the average disabled household (including at least one disabled adult or child) faces extra costs of £975 per month. Scope’s research, not a number I’ve plucked out of the air.

The club should have included people with disabilities (and carers) in the decision making process. Nothing about us without us.

Disability Price Tag 2023: the extra cost of disability | Disability charity Scope UK

Our latest research shows the extra costs disabled households face.

www.scope.org.uk

Personally I would say that's one for government and not really the responsibly of football clubs.

Will read the report later on but I've got to be honest, the opening paragraph uses booking a holiday as an example of an everyday thing that costs disabled people more. Sure I'm not alone in not having been able to afford a holiday for years so not sure I'd class it as an everyday cost.

Where do you draw the line? I currently get billed 4 figures a month for my Dads end of life care, that's money I most definitely can not afford, should I get a free or discounted season ticket?

I feel like I've missed something here because from what I can read on the clubs website people on the "Enhanced rate of PIP or Higher Level Rate DLA to receive a free Personal Assistant ticket" and "Under 14s will also no longer receive a free ticket for their Personal Assistant" as all under 14s need to be accompanied by an adult. People are acting like disabled people have been banned from the ground or are being charged more than non-disabled people.

 

[Kubrick]

Many families with disabled children struggle financially and probably on balance more than those without but the principle is if there is a special circumstance to discuss with the club

Unfortunately, there's no probably about it. Quoting Scope's research again, "Disabled people are almost three times as likely to live in material deprivation than the rest of the population (34% versus 13%)." Requiring that supporters with disabilities receive a higher rate of DLA or PIP will mean that the majority won't be eligible for a free ticket (36% receive it).

This is a forum, and people are free to share opinions. However, when the clubs' changes for supporters with disabilities aren't a Level Playing Field recommendation, and Level Playing Field won't endorse them, then you know that, objectively, the changes aren't good for supporters with disabilities.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Unfortunately, there's no probably about it. Quoting Scope's research again, "Disabled people are almost three times as likely to live in material deprivation than the rest of the population (34% versus 13%)." Requiring that supporters with disabilities receive a higher rate of DLA or PIP will mean that the majority won't be eligible for a free ticket (36% receive it).

This is a forum, and people are free to share opinions. However, when the clubs' changes for supporters with disabilities aren't a Level Playing Field recommendation, and Level Playing Field won't endorse them, then you know that, objectively, the changes aren't good for supporters with disabilities.

Sound argument well made

 

[Flying Fokker]

Unfortunately, there's no probably about it. Quoting Scope's research again, "Disabled people are almost three times as likely to live in material deprivation than the rest of the population (34% versus 13%)." Requiring that supporters with disabilities receive a higher rate of DLA or PIP will mean that the majority won't be eligible for a free ticket (36% receive it).

This is a forum, and people are free to share opinions. However, when the clubs' changes for supporters with disabilities aren't a Level Playing Field recommendation, and Level Playing Field won't endorse them, then you know that, objectively, the changes aren't good for supporters with disabilities.

There is also the opportunity for people to pay their way if they have discretionary income. I’ve seen LD take £100/150 quid down to game every week. Nowt wrong with that. But not breadline. So yes, I agree with your premise, but these issues are addressed through using PIPS and personal budgets before Coventry City decide to ‘clamp’ down on those who abuse the system. How they choose to spend their money is their choice.

 

[wingy]

There is also the opportunity for people to pay their way if they have discretionary income. I’ve seen LD take £100/150 quid down to game every week. Nowt wrong with that. But not breadline. So yes, I agree with your premise, but these issues are addressed through using PIPS and personal budgets before Coventry City decide to ‘clamp’ down on those who abuse the system. How they choose to spend their money is their choice.

Sure the official body will be checking their bank accounts, sounds a bit big brother to me but then we live in strange times where the fellow man turns on another?
I find it all so far away from what drew me in, the first place, I mean I'm fairly sure these people are heavily policed, like a brother whose been through equivalent courts system to win his case and now supporting his partner to the end of life and now qualifies himself through conditions, disgraceful and not the remit of a football club make policy that goes against the aims of Gov't!

 

[wingy]

MMJ where are you?
Othering again!

 

[Flying Fokker]

Sure the official body will be checking their bank accounts, sounds a bit big brother to me but then we live in strange times where the fellow man turns on another?
I find it all so far away from what drew me in, the first place, I mean I'm fairly sure these people are heavily policed, like a brother whose been through equivalent courts system to win his case and now supporting his partner to the end of life and now qualifies himself through conditions, disgraceful and not the remit of a football club make policy that goes against the aims of Gov't!

Like I said. Once people have the money, they are free to spend it. The PIP and direct payments enable to spend as they choose. It creates problems of course. Regarding football clubs making policy…they are in terms of their own business, not in terms of what people earn or receive in entitlements.

 

[chiefdave]

Was looking for something on the Arena website today and noticed that are policy is now in line with the policy for all events at the Arena, doubt this is a coincidence