Disheartening Sky Blue's Story On The Way.. (9 Viewers)

James Smith · Jan 18, 2014

mrtickle said:
I think there a long list of people in the queue before sisu. Our previous owners have helped us get where we are today far more than sisu.

Really? Yes we nearly went bust but there were hardly Sisu. Not sure they moved us to substantially worse facilities over 30 miles outside of our city. Also previously we were a limited company and had fans as shareholders- also known as owners. Plus Sir Higgs who was obviously a massive supporter of the club sorted out building a Category 2 training centre for our Academy through the Higgs Charity.

I'd say that the inability or unwillingness of Sisu to negotiate has done far more to get us where we are today.

skybluetony176 · Jan 18, 2014

Astute said:
If you think that 1.2m for the rent was too much what do you say about the 2.5m management fees they charge our club? At least for the rent we got a good ground to play in. As for their management skills.............

the "management" fees cant be blamed on the council, therefore grendull has no concern about them.

skybluetony176 · Jan 18, 2014

mrtickle said:
I think there a long list of people in the queue before sisu. Our previous owners have helped us get where we are today far more than sisu.

in some ways i agree. bad management put the club in a financial position where a hedge fund could view it with interest so yes the previous management shoulder the blame for us having our current owners. however the current owners are 100% to blame for the clubs current pitiful existance. if you dont think things have gone from bad to worse since they arrived i would love to here your justification for this.

mrtickle · Jan 18, 2014

James Smith said:
Really? Yes we nearly went bust but there were hardly Sisu. Not sure they moved us to substantially worse facilities over 30 miles outside of our city. Also previously we were a limited company and had fans as shareholders- also known as owners. Plus Sir Higgs who was obviously a massive supporter of the club sorted out building a Category 2 training centre for our Academy through the Higgs Charity.

I'd say that the inability or unwillingness of Sisu to negotiate has done far more to get us where we are today.

I think some people have short memories. Yes, sisu are the current owners and responsible for the current plight but as a whole this has been along drawn out affair. If we had gone into admin instead of selling rights off left and right we would have a better financial footing. It is that lack of income stream and revenue that cause today's current situation. Sisu did make the choice to take us over and hopefully knew what they we getting themselves into and are far from blameless.

The problem with our club is it has no equity. Previous owners would not go into admin as they owned the debt. Current owners have ran that debt back up but to blame them fully is ridiculous.

chiefdave · Jan 18, 2014

Grendel said:
Well as James smith is very keen to point out no dividends have been paid. So at present their have been no earnings from the venture. Investment which is principally dependant on the success of a football team hitherto unsuccessful I'd say is very high risk.

Higgs didn't really get involved as an investment though did they? They did it to help the football club out and "to make a step change in the north west of the city through economic regeneration bringing employment and other economic benefits to the people of Coventry".

In theory there was no risk at all, the plan was short term with the club buying back the share under the price formula. The club benefit from the immediate receipt of cash which they desperately needed with the ability to buy back at a preset price as soon as it could be afforded. Higgs would receive back all their money and everyones a winner. No one would really have even imagined the football club, or more accurately the owners of the football club, would attempt the things SISU have since becoming owners.

James Smith · Jan 18, 2014

mrtickle said:
I think some people have short memories. Yes, sisu are the current owners and responsible for the current plight but as a whole this has been along drawn out affair. If we had gone into admin instead of selling rights off left and right we would have a better financial footing. It is that lack of income stream and revenue that cause today's current situation. Sisu did make the choice to take us over and hopefully knew what they we getting themselves into and are far from blameless.

The problem with our club is it has no equity. Previous owners would not go into admin as they owned the debt. Current owners have ran that debt back up but to blame them fully is ridiculous.

Didn't some members of the previous board lose vast amounts of money when Sisu came in?
Not saying they were all saints, but Sisu had the opportunity buy half of ACL and apparently (investors) money to do so.

chiefdave · Jan 18, 2014

mrtickle said:
I think there a long list of people in the queue before sisu. Our previous owners have helped us get where we are today far more than sisu.

Not saying the previous owners weren't terrible but I think you have to draw a line the day SISU took over. The did, or at least had the opportunity, to do due diligence. They came in telling us we would own the ground and be in the premier league so that have, by any criteria you care to judge them on, failed spectacularly.

This isn't Joe Elliot and some of his mates taking over because there's no other option and the club will cease to exist. if someone had taken over and on day one said the clubs a mess, it's going to take years to turn around and it may well get a lot worse before it gets better than maybe we could all say it's not the owners fault its down to the past owners but that's not what happened.

SISU came in, expected to make money quickly and made a complete mess of it, they knew the state of the club when they took over and didn't have any problem with it therefore, as far as I'm concerned, the mess we're in now is entirely down to them.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

Robinson lost £20m...Shareholders lost everything after being told give their shares to SISU for F**k all or they wouldn't "BUY" CCFC......Lmfao, they paid Nothing, Zilch, Nada, Nowt!

Rusty Trombone · Jan 18, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
Robinson lost £20m...Shareholders lost everything after being told give their shares to SISU for F**k all or they wouldn't "BUY" CCFC......Lmfao, they paid Nothing, Zilch, Nada, Nowt!

I'll save any sympathy for Robinson until such time that all his dealings with the club are revealed.

skybluetony176 · Jan 18, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
Robinson lost £20m...Shareholders lost everything after being told give their shares to SISU for F**k all or they wouldn't "BUY" CCFC......Lmfao, they paid Nothing, Zilch, Nada, Nowt!

you say that like its the sisu way :thinking about:

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

@ skybluetony176.....I would never say anything like that mate

italiahorse · Jan 18, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
Robinson lost £20m...Shareholders lost everything after being told give their shares to SISU for F**k all or they wouldn't "BUY" CCFC......Lmfao, they paid Nothing, Zilch, Nada, Nowt!

Is there a scenario here where although they got the club for nothing they still managed to keep the debt against the club in some sort of transfer from Sisu ? :thinking about:
Otherwise I can't understand why we had so much debt in the club when we went into administration. It simple does not add up.

Jack Griffin · Jan 18, 2014

Grendel said:
The same can be said for the Higgs charity for firstly investing in a high risk project and secondly for taking legal action over a disputed amount. If they lose or draw they too failed in their due dillegence didn't they?

I don't think it was a good idea, but at the time a lot of good will existed between Higgs & CCFC and Derek Higgs was a director of CCFC, sadly Derek Higgs died at a relatively young age and that good will no longer exists, SISU have seen it off.

mrtickle · Jan 18, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
I don't think it was a good idea, but at the time a lot of good will existed between Higgs & CCFC and Derek Higgs was a director of CCFC, sadly Derek Higgs died at a relatively young age and that good will no longer exists and SISU have seen it off.

I think Higgs are the only one who have been supportive of the club. Legal affairs aside*,the club has been well looked after by Higgs.

*until it comes out in the wash we will never who was in the wrong.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

@ italiahorse......My take on the debt before SISU so generously "Bought" the Club is, Whether it be stupidity, or something else, former Chairmen and boards sanctioned buying players, and paying them very high wages. If this is the case, mitigating circumstances come into play(Trying to keep CCFC in the Premier League) Debts of £30m+..depending which Newspaper, or Website you garner information from. SISU claimed to be £40m in debt not that long ago, whilst claiming the former Boards' debt had been "Re-distributed" amongst it's many "Arms of business" So! ask yourselves, What is the difference between £30m and £40m.?????? It's a MAX of £10m is it not?...Wait a second though...I forgot....Appleton comes up with a figure of £70m+ Debt!!!....This comes from a man(Qualified Accountant) that didn't know where the "Golden Share" was.......Mr Appleton, you're a complete imbecile.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

@ italiahorse......My take on the debt before SISU so generously "Bought" the Club is, Whether it be stupidity, or something else, former Chairmen and boards sanctioned buying players, and paying them very high wages. If this is the case, mitigating circumstances come into play(Trying to keep CCFC in the Premier League) Debts of £30m+..depending which Newspaper, or Website you garner information from. SISU claimed to be £40m in debt not that long ago, whilst claiming the former Boards' debt had been "Re-distributed" amongst it's many "Arms of business" So! ask yourselves, What is the difference between £30m and £40m.?????? It's a MAX of £10m is it not?...Wait a second though...I forgot....Appleton comes up with a figure of £70m+ Debt!!!....This comes from a man(Qualified Accountant) that didn't know where the "Golden Share" was.......Mr Appleton, you're a complete imbecile.

magic82ball · Jan 18, 2014

Any chance this thread can die now?

FRY-CCFC · Jan 18, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Fucking Twitter twats.

Tell us what the "story" is, or fuck off.

This is why the elderly shouldn't be on the internet.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

@ FRY-CCFC..............Cheeky bugger, if it wasn't for the "Older person" You wouldn't exist to be able to use the intertwatty!

Grendel · Jan 18, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ italiahorse......My take on the debt before SISU so generously "Bought" the Club is, Whether it be stupidity, or something else, former Chairmen and boards sanctioned buying players, and paying them very high wages. If this is the case, mitigating circumstances come into play(Trying to keep CCFC in the Premier League) Debts of £30m+..depending which Newspaper, or Website you garner information from. SISU claimed to be £40m in debt not that long ago, whilst claiming the former Boards' debt had been "Re-distributed" amongst it's many "Arms of business" So! ask yourselves, What is the difference between £30m and £40m.?????? It's a MAX of £10m is it not?...Wait a second though...I forgot....Appleton comes up with a figure of £70m+ Debt!!!....This comes from a man(Qualified Accountant) that didn't know where the "Golden Share" was.......Mr Appleton, you're a complete imbecile.

Are you an expert on insolvency law?

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

@ Grenduffy... Are you an expert on insolvency law?.............................................................................Listen mate, I've got my own thoughts on what has gone on. I don't profess to be an expert in anything, but I do know when someone like SISU(Proven countless times) are lying, Appleton(Is either blind or lying)...and I also know the difference between an "Estimation" and a "Fact" ok?

Grendel · Jan 18, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ Grenduffy... Are you an expert on insolvency law?.............................................................................Listen mate, I've got my own thoughts on what has gone on. I don't profess to be an expert in anything, but I do know when someone like SISU(Proven countless times) are lying, Appleton(Is either blind or lying)...and I also know the difference between an "Estimation" and a "Fact" ok?

Cheers for that. I'm down my local and had a wager with my drinking colleagues that you would somehow use the words estimated facts in the response.
I suspect there is now going to be a stewards enquiry as you've actually been rather creative (that old IQ of yours eh?) and said estimation. I say its sufficient and the beers on them.
I'm now telling them what your next response will include - don't disappoint me.

Astute · Jan 18, 2014

mrtickle said:
I think some people have short memories. Yes, sisu are the current owners and responsible for the current plight but as a whole this has been along drawn out affair. If we had gone into admin instead of selling rights off left and right we would have a better financial footing. It is that lack of income stream and revenue that cause today's current situation. Sisu did make the choice to take us over and hopefully knew what they we getting themselves into and are far from blameless.

The problem with our club is it has no equity. Previous owners would not go into admin as they owned the debt. Current owners have ran that debt back up but to blame them fully is ridiculous.

Most of the debt was wiped out when SISUE took over. It was said to be up to 30m. But in 6 years they say we are now 70m in debt 2.5m management fees and 1.2m interest payments a year don't help.

So who has run up the 70m? And we are not to blame them? So if the previous owners should have wiped out the debts as you say why do you say SISUE shouldn't and then start again?

Astute · Jan 18, 2014

mrtickle said:
I think Higgs are the only one who have been supportive of the club. Legal affairs aside*,the club has been well looked after by Higgs.

*until it comes out in the wash we will never who was in the wrong.

Do you think SISUE are innocent for once?

savosdad · Jan 18, 2014

i didnt realize what a clever person you are id like to buy you a pint and become really good mates x

ohitsaidwalker king power · Jan 18, 2014

Grendel said:
Cheers for that. I'm down my local and had a wager with my drinking colleagues that you would somehow use the words estimated facts in the response.
I suspect there is now going to be a stewards enquiry as you've actually been rather creative (that old IQ of yours eh?) and said estimation. I say its sufficient and the beers on them.
I'm now telling them what your next response will include - don't disappoint me.

G- such imagination?....

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 18, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
You see I am not sure that is really the case. There seems to be a popular myth that SISU are some super court room beings that always win their case. I really do not think that is the case. What they appear to have is lots of money to spend on legal fees for expensive solicitors and barristers. Ordinarily that is good enough to win through because the people defending do not have the means or will to fight. In which case it isn't necessarily about being legally right, it could be simply who has deepest pockets and that is a very different thing.

I think where SISU have led the events then it is easy to perceive that they are running rings round others, because the others will clearly always have to play catch up. Proactive vs reactive if you like. However there have been times in this dispute where they have clearly been caught out by events and statements. This has sent them scampering about playing catch up themselves. The reason this whole affair has been so acrimonious is because neither side have rolled over.

Good point to be fair-although if they had been less on the ball with their ARVO debenture, they wouldn't have been able to jump the gun on the administration process the year after and hand the club back to themselves. My point was more or less in tandem with yours-I didn't mean to say that SISU's position is legally flawless, but that they can devote more time and resources to expensive lawyers than the Council can; the latter has a city to run and the former doesn't.

skybluericoh · Jan 18, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
You see I am not sure that is really the case. There seems to be a popular myth that SISU are some super court room beings that always win their case. I really do not think that is the case. What they appear to have is lots of money to spend on legal fees for expensive solicitors and barristers. Ordinarily that is good enough to win through because the people defending do not have the means or will to fight. In which case it isn't necessarily about being legally right, it could be simply who has deepest pockets and that is a very different thing.

I think where SISU have led the events then it is easy to perceive that they are running rings round others, because the others will clearly always have to play catch up. Proactive vs reactive if you like. However there have been times in this dispute where they have clearly been caught out by events and statements. This has sent them scampering about playing catch up themselves. The reason this whole affair has been so acrimonious is because neither side have rolled over.

I don't think that SISU will be picking up any cost at all. They will probably just pile it into the management fees in the column headed 'Legal'.
While I agreed with them to a point when they started their stance on the rent etc. The Hard Ball tactics they use are not for football clubs, which were and should continue to be community assets. As far as I'm concerned the only way SISU should get there hands on the Ricoh is by paying a fair market rate that benefits the Football Club, ACL, and the local community and not just SISU.

letsallsingtogether · Jan 18, 2014

Well we are fucked then. They only care about themselves.
not Coventry City
Not Coventry
Not the Fans
Not any one except their investors.

skybluericoh said:
I don't think that SISU will be picking up any cost at all. They will probably just pile it into the management fees in the column headed 'Legal'.
While I agreed with them to a point when they started their stance on the rent etc. The Hard Ball tactics they use are not for football clubs, which were and should continue to be community assets. As far as I'm concerned the only way SISU should get there hands on the Ricoh is by paying a fair market rate that benefits the Football Club, ACL, and the local community and not just SISU.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 18, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
Well we are fucked then. They only care about themselves.
not Coventry City
Not Coventry
Not the Fans
Not any one except their investors.

They haven't done a sterling job on that either...

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

Grenduffy...You're a F**king Nobnosher...Bet you never "Estimated" that "Fact" into the equation eh?

Nick · Jan 18, 2014

Sky Blue Kid said:
Grenduffy...You're a F**king Nobnosher...Bet you never "Estimated" that "Fact" into the equation eh?

Jesus, can't you take it up a level and say something about his mum?

letsallsingtogether · Jan 18, 2014

Why even she doesn't like him

Nick said:
Jesus, can't you take it up a level and say something about his mum?

RPHunt · Jan 18, 2014

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
G- such imagination?....

Absolutely.

Imagine it, you are having a quiet pint on a Saturday afternoon and some guy whips out his mobile phone and says "Look at the discussion I am having on this internet forum. Who wants to have a bet on what is said next?".

The following week you offer to take the wife shopping.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 18, 2014

Sorry Nick...Have I upset you by defending myself against your friend?

Disheartening Sky Blue's Story On The Way.. (9 Viewers)

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