Do you want to discuss boring politics? (26 Viewers)

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Nuclear as a medium term strategy until renewables are ready to take over would be my preferred route but now the timing is such where it’s less clear cut as to whether or not it’s worth building new reactors to then decommission them not long after.
I had the radio on in the car the other day and some ex Tory now working for the Adam Smith Institute was lamenting that the UK had more nuclear generating power in the 60s than Europe combined.

It's funny that he couldn't seem to draw the obviously conclusion as to why events in the 80s that he and his right wing think tank supported might have affected that.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I had the radio on in the car the other day and some ex Tory now working for the Adam Smith Institute was lamenting that the UK had more nuclear generating power in the 60s than Europe combined.

It's funny that he couldn't seem to draw the obviously conclusion as to why events in the 80s that he and his right wing think tank supported might have affected that.
Pretty startling to think how much better things could have gone for the country had we done that in the 60s.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
This is worth 15 mins of anyone’s time who’s interested in gas, oil and the environment



Finally people are coming round to the logic of what’s the point in importing supplementary LNG to replace what’s (possibly) available in the North Sea when it’s actually dirtier/worse for environment and more expensive 🤷‍♂️.

This isn’t an anti environmental post by the way, if we could operate purely on renewables*, happy days, but we can’t for the foreseeable future. More logic, less ideology might help


* at a personal level im pretty sure I pay more for octopus to supply me with 100% renewable energy


That Ed Conway post is even more relevant after last nights Middle East attacks. Our reliance on foreign LNG, when considering our own energy security as well as its negative environmental impact, is looking ever more stupid. Means we can give ourselves a hollow pat on the back for not producing/extracting more oil and gas from the North Sea though, so all good
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
That Ed Conway post is even more relevant after last nights Middle East attacks. Our reliance on foreign LNG, when considering our own energy security as well as its negative environmental impact, is looking ever more stupid. Means we can give ourselves a hollow pat on the back for not producing/extracting more oil and gas from the North Sea though, so all good
Couldn’t be done overnight
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
That Ed Conway post is even more relevant after last nights Middle East attacks. Our reliance on foreign LNG, when considering our own energy security as well as its negative environmental impact, is looking ever more stupid. Means we can give ourselves a hollow pat on the back for not producing/extracting more oil and gas from the North Sea though, so all good

Leave it to the market, it shall provide.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Leave it to the market, it shall provide.

Successive governments have directed/led the market using a mixture of billions in subsidies, tax, energy profits levy, energy cap and green taxes etc. It’s pretty far removed to being left to the market


Ps I’d quite happily had some state owned SMR nuclear power stations but not sure what difference it would make in the grand scheme of things. If anyone looks at cost of energy before Ukraine we were competitive. Costs of updating infrastructure, reliance on gas for electricity and taxes appear to be the drivers. Whether it’s state owned or private these issues/challenges would remain
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Successive governments have directed/led the market using a mixture of billions in subsidies, tax, energy profits levy, energy cap and green taxes etc. It’s pretty far removed to being left to the market


Ps I’d quite happily had some state owned SMR nuclear power stations but not sure what difference it would make in the grand scheme of things. If anyone looks at cost of energy before Ukraine we were competitive. Costs of updating infrastructure, reliance on gas for electricity and taxes appear to be the drivers. Whether it’s state owned or private these issues/challenges would remain
Need bug beautiful coal
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
That Ed Conway post is even more relevant after last nights Middle East attacks. Our reliance on foreign LNG, when considering our own energy security as well as its negative environmental impact, is looking ever more stupid. Means we can give ourselves a hollow pat on the back for not producing/extracting more oil and gas from the North Sea though, so all good
We could pull as much gas out of the North Sea as you like and it would change nothing, it’s all sold on the open market. Unless we renationalise North Sea oil and take control over distribution of course, for which the argument is getting stronger.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
We could pull as much gas out of the North Sea as you like and it would change nothing, it’s all sold on the open market. Unless we renationalise North Sea oil and take control over distribution of course, for which the argument is getting stronger.

I wasn’t saying it would make a big difference to cost although I still can’t quite get my head around why if we’re producing more gas cheaper locally rather than importing more expensive LNG from Qatar, US etc it wouldn’t make a difference (even appreciating it’s global pricing). Nor the unfairness of us paying additional green taxes etc yet not then getting the benefit of this cheaper renewable energy as it’s charged at marginal pricing ie gas price 🤷‍♂️

The main points Conway was making though was that imported LNG is more expensive and is a fair bit worse for the environment. Throw in energy security when gas plants are being bombed elsewhere in the world and the policies of successive governments aren’t looking great.

Again, this isn’t an anti renewables post, I wish we could produce all our energy this way but there’s a realisation that an element of gas will be required in our energy mix for a long time yet and it’s how we plug that gap
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I wasn’t saying it would make a big difference to cost although I still can’t quite get my head around why if we’re producing more gas cheaper locally rather than importing more expensive LNG from Qatar, US etc it wouldn’t make a difference (even appreciating it’s global pricing). Nor the unfairness of us paying additional green taxes etc yet not then getting the benefit of this cheaper renewable energy as it’s charged at marginal pricing ie gas price 🤷‍♂️

The main points Conway was making though was that imported LNG is more expensive and is a fair bit worse for the environment. Throw in energy security when gas plants are being bombed elsewhere in the world and the policies of successive governments aren’t looking great.

Again, this isn’t an anti renewables post, I wish we could produce all our energy this way but there’s a realisation that an element of gas will be required in our energy mix for a long time yet and it’s how we plug that gap
I wasn’t talking about cost, I was talking about security.

Unless the government takes back control of distribution of North Sea oil through nationalisation it won’t matter a bit. The private sector will always sell to the highest bidder regardless of how much is pumped out so pumping more out offers no security at all.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
I wasn’t talking about cost, I was talking about security.

Unless the government takes back control of distribution of North Sea oil through nationalisation it won’t matter a bit. The private sector will always sell to the highest bidder regardless of how much is pumped out so pumping more out offers no security at all.

I personally think in a war/global emergency situation we (and the rest of Europe) have far more potential energy security from what’s produced in and around this country than from LNG imports from the gulf states

As we saw during Covid it was every country for themselves

Ps and as stated previously imported LNG is far worse for the environment !
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I personally think in a war/global emergency situation we (and the rest of Europe) have far more potential energy security from what’s produced in and around this country than from LNG imports from the gulf states

As we saw during Covid it was every country for themselves

Ps and as stated previously imported LNG is far worse for the environment !
Fact is we import the majority of the oil and gas we use while exporting the majority of oil and gas we produce. This is down to the free market. I suspect that the only thing that will change under the current arrangement is more will be exported if we pump more out. It’s our dependency on fossil fuels that’s costing us. The UK is uniquely placed in Europe with with the longest coastline in Europe and dependable wind because of the Gulf Stream. We were late to the renewable energy revolution, something that could have given us real energy independence as a country.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Fact is we import the majority of the oil and gas we use while exporting the majority of oil and gas we produce. This is down to the free market. I suspect that the only thing that will change under the current arrangement is more will be exported if we pump more out. It’s our dependency on fossil fuels that’s costing us. The UK is uniquely placed in Europe with with the longest coastline in Europe and dependable wind because of the Gulf Stream. We were late to the renewable energy revolution, something that could have given us real energy independence as a country.

It’s not as simple as that. We export a majority of the oil produced as it’s the wrong type of oil for what we need and refine here. We import more gas (LNG) because we need it to produce electricity to keep the lights on

Everyone wants more renewables but there will still be some reliance on gas, it’s where we get that from which is being questioned (Have you watched the Conway video I posted which is what started the discussion ?)

We’re pretty good with renewables, from my limited understanding it appears that the main issue is related to getting everything connected to the grind. As I’ve also said the fact we don’t benefit from cheaper renewables due to marginal pricing is always going to piss me off
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
It’s not as simple as that. We export a majority of the oil produced as it’s the wrong type of oil for what we need and refine here. We import more gas (LNG) because we need it to produce electricity to keep the lights on

Everyone wants more renewables but there will still be some reliance on gas, it’s where we get that from which is being questioned (Have you watched the Conway video I posted which is what started the discussion ?)

We’re pretty good with renewables, from my limited understanding it appears that the main issue is related to getting everything connected to the grind. As I’ve also said the fact we don’t benefit from cheaper renewables due to marginal pricing is always going to piss me off
You’re contradicting yourself a bit Steve . You started off saying that we import LNG when we could be using our own and now you’re saying we don’t have the right gas. Which is it?
 

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