It’s not going to ever resolve though is it. We already have a huge skills shortage, and if climate change continues there will be a huge exodus of people in Europe, of which some will inevitably arrive with us.
I am part of the electorate and I don't believe immigration is an issue. The electorate isn't just Daily Mail/Express readers you know. It has just been weaponised by the Tories to create a scapegoat for their failings in running the country. Virtually all studies have shown immigrants create more wealth for the country than they take out. And the NHS and social care in particular would be decimated without immigration.The electorate wants net migration to be reduced. Pre-Tony Blair the figure was less than 50k per year and the latest figures it’s up to 750k or thereabouts. Even Keir Starmer gave the ‘read my lips’ followed by a promise to get net migration down.
I’m not sure the state can manage as the infrastructure to keep up with the current volume, it’s huge. For example, something in the region of 515k new houses needed per year.
I say this as someone who is pro-immigration.
And how would that provide the doctors, nurses and social care workers we need now?It will, one way or the other. Either the priorities of the electorate are resolved by existing parties or new parties. The last thing we need as a country is to import the latest craze of European politics; rehabilitated and ‘genuinely’ far right major political party.
On the skills gap, this is where we need to think long term and refocusing our education policies to deliver the skills our economy needs.
I am part of the electorate and I don't believe immigration is an issue. The electorate isn't just Daily Mail/Express readers you know. It has just been weaponised by the Tories to create a scapegoat for their failings in running the country. Virtually all studies have shown immigrants create more wealth for the country than they take out. And the NHS and social care in particular would be decimated without immigration.
OK tell me how Farage's differ from the Groups you mention in Germany and Italy. I guess you support the Rwanda policy? Tell me how that differs from the National Front's central policy in the 1980s.
I am part of the electorate and I don't believe immigration is an issue. The electorate isn't just Daily Mail/Express readers you know. It has just been weaponised by the Tories to create a scapegoat for their failings in running the country. Virtually all studies have shown immigrants create more wealth for the country than they take out. And the NHS and social care in particular would be decimated without immigration.
OK tell me how Farage's differ from the Groups you mention in Germany and Italy. I guess you support the Rwanda policy? Tell me how that differs from the National Front's central policy in the 1980s.
Immigration might not be an issue for you, but for the electorate, it’s always a top 5 issues. After the cost of living crisis, 18% of people said immigration is their single most important issue.
How are they different? Well, their background isn’t rooted in neo-nazi movements and both Farage and Tice are Thatcherite in reality.
Click the link below, for more details
General election 2024: what are the most important issues for voters? | YouGov
While 2019 may have been the Brexit election, few see it as a top issue this time roundyougov.co.uk
The Tory party will find a way to repurpose itself. It’s been one of the organic and flexible political parties in the western world. For better or worst depending on your viewpoint.
Some interesting parallels with the Canadian Tories as Farage pointed out who themselves have been took over.
It feels like we’re coming to the end of the latest ‘consensus’ in our political system. The electorate wants things to change under Labour and to be honest, I think there’ll be a lot of disappointed people.
On the skills gap, this is where we need to think long term and refocusing our education policies to deliver the skills our economy needs.
It’s one of the greatest things this country has ever done, so too right people want to protect it. When you introduce a motive for profit into a health system the focus begins to move away from the patient.I personally think the NHS being a staple of "British pride" is what is saving it from privatisation. The good thing is that the Tories know they will lose badly at the polls. I find it weird that people have "national pride", but it is a good thing when it comes to the NHS, I think
Trade unionists are also concerned with low income migration and this was the case historically too.Im not either but labour and the tories are. They see it as a huge issue. Yvette cooper didn’t rule out finding another proxy country as Eu countries also are. Labour have never said ideologically they are opposed to Rwanda but its cost.
I’m afraid you confuse this as right wing. It’s just hard left against hard right. The Labour Party of the early 80’s had similar views to Farage on migration. Michael Foot and Enoch Powell were very close friends
It’s really liberal policy that sees immigration as beneficial as well as mild conservatism- socialists oppose totally
This was the mistake Blair made and frankly it fucked up the education system. The purpose of schools and universities isn’t to try and meet the whims of the market and when they try they inevitably let down students.
What’s needed is proper incentives for business to train up staff. The education system is a 21 year system and will never be up to date with the latest trends. It should be providing a solid base for students to move into any area that arises.
This is actually one of the few things the Tories got right in education. A skills based curriculum was a mess.
There is nothing intrinsically anti immigration in socialism.Im not either but labour and the tories are. They see it as a huge issue. Yvette cooper didn’t rule out finding another proxy country as Eu countries also are. Labour have never said ideologically they are opposed to Rwanda but its cost.
I’m afraid you confuse this as right wing. It’s just hard left against hard right. The Labour Party of the early 80’s had similar views to Farage on migration. Michael Foot and Enoch Powell were very close friends
It’s really liberal policy that sees immigration as beneficial as well as mild conservatism- socialists oppose totally
Trade unionists are also concerned with low income migration and this was the case historically too.
It’s not an issue that impacts me directly, but indirect issue of housing prices does.
Our economy has become overly reliant on low skill migration.
So where do you suggest we get doctors, nurses and social care workers from?Trade unionists are also concerned with low income migration and this was the case historically too.
It’s not an issue that impacts me directly, but indirect issue of housing prices does.
Our economy has become overly reliant on low skill migration.
Yep, the 50% of school leavers going to uni was a mistake in hindsight. I won’t knock the honourable intentions.
I am part of the electorate.Immigration might not be an issue for you, but for the electorate, it’s always a top 5 issues. After the cost of living crisis, 18% of people said immigration is their single most important issue.
How are they different? Well, their background isn’t rooted in neo-nazi movements and both Farage and Tice are Thatcherite in reality.
Click the link below, for more details
General election 2024: what are the most important issues for voters? | YouGov
While 2019 may have been the Brexit election, few see it as a top issue this time roundyougov.co.uk
There is nothing intrinsically anti immigration in socialism.
I am part of the electorate.
As I said it's only an issue because it has been made so by the Tories and Farage backed by the right wing press like the Mail. Picking on minorities and othering them has been used by poor administrations throughout history to cover up for poor Governance. They need a scapegoat. In reality immigrants add more to society than they take out.
Thatcher was nothing like Farage - she was a europhile who backed the ERM up to the point of collapse.
To clarify, the 50% school leavers to uni was a target - not an outcome. I didn’t make that clear at all, my bad.Disagree. And 50% of school leavers don’t go to uni, it’s more like 30% but 50% of adults (I think) do over their lifetime.
But uni shouldn’t be to get you a job and that’s not why the wealthy send their kids to it (for all his bluster I guarantee Sunak kids will all go). It should be to train you in higher level thinking which applies anywhere.
Business needs to be better at picking up grads and non grads and moulding them into productive workers.
Problem is that now we don’t have long term employment there’s less incentive to do so. Not sure how you square that circle. Government is too slow to be reactive to market needs and business needs guarantees they aren’t wasting cash on someone who won’t pay it back.
Now if Boris joins they’ll win it allHe really put the boot in to the tories in his speech so it sounded like he's preparing to go head to head with them.
To clarify, the 50% school leavers to uni was a target - not an outcome. I didn’t make that clear at all, my bad.
I went to uni so know everything you just said. Frankly, there are too many uni places and this well meaning policy was partly a consideration when tripling tutition fees and that failing policy is straining on the public purse.
Well, immigration is an issue in this country that could truly turn toxic if it’s not resolved this election. The electorate thought Brexit would resolve the issue and it hasn’t and people are angered by this, left (blue labour) and right alike.
A quick look over the pond to the continent and there are some truly nasty people and parties polling well.
I’ve been to Italy 3 times and seen some really unpleasant graffiti in two (apparently) traditionally centre-left cities (Fiorentina & Genoa); swastikas and anti-Jewish slogans that wouldn’t look out of place in 1930-40s Germany. Really not surprised there are neo-Nazis for MEPs in the European elections. Then look at RN in France, AfD in Germany and you really can’t compare them to Farage and Reform.
I said there is nothing intrinsically anti immigration in socialism. I didn't say no socialists are anti immigration.So Michael foot wasn’t socialist? For real?
I said there is nothing intrinsically anti immigration in socialism. I didn't say no socialists are anti immigration.
I said there is nothing intrinsically anti immigration in socialism. I didn't say no socialists are anti immigration.
I am part of the electorate.
As I said it's only an issue because it has been made so by the Tories and Farage backed by the right wing press like the Mail. Picking on minorities and othering them has been used by poor administrations throughout history to cover up for poor Governance. They need a scapegoat. In reality immigrants add more to society than they take out.
That’s your view on things. Look up Paul Embrey for a socialist/Blue Labour take on immigration. Even to satisfy your own curiosity.
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in the Tories and eventually their leader.Takeover bid after the election?
Socialism was originally an internationalist movement. In this country there are elements of the left who see it more in terms of protectionism and isolationism, so that is why I used the word intrinsic.There is TBF. Protectionism and government intervention are left wing concepts. Open borders are liberalism surely?
Explain me then?Socialists are by their beliefs opposed as they are to a federal EU state
It's been coming for some time. His attendance at the party conference (still trying to get the image of him dancing with Priti Patel out of my mind) was all part of his bid to succeed Sunak in my view.I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in the Tories and eventually their leader.
Farage does want fewer immigrants, but not too many fewer as otherwise he would have no one to scapegoat, and thus no point.I think that misunderstands the relationship between the public and the right wing TBH. Farage doesn’t want fewer immigrants, he wants less tax. But no one will leave the EU to get stock brokers paying less tax. The right use issues that matter to the public but the left won’t touch to get elected IMO. See also women’s rights right now. They don’t care, mixed sex wards have increased and provision of single sex DV services have decreased on their watch. But they know it makes the left squeamish to talk about.
The right don’t care about child grooming gangs, they’ve not implemented any of the recommendations that came out of Rotherham and Tommy Robinson has done more to endanger convictions than get them. But it’s an emotive issue that the left won’t touch (see what happened to Sarah Champion), so they use it for support.
If you talk to people a lot do have issues with the level of immigration post 2005, and yes some are outright racists, but not a majority. Thats why it’s a successful tactic for the right.
I haven’t had the pleasure of seeing that, thanks for letting me know!It's been coming for some time. His attendance at the party conference (still trying to get the image of him dancing with Priti Patel out if my mind) was all part of his bid to succeed Sunak in my view.
Socialism was originally an internationalist movement. In this country there are elements of the left who see it more in terms of protectionism and isolationism, so that is why I used the word intrinsic.
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