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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (42 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,591
David O'Day said:

Fuck me, if they are losing the Daily Mail readers then they truly are fucked
Click to expand...
Surprised that Reform isn’t beating them in that demographic
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,592
Starmer getting tied up in knots already on Sky
 

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,593
shmmeee said:
The whole circle jerk with the big four needs looking at. It seems whatever you do the big company lawyers manage to wriggle out of it and smaller companies get hit. Like the rest of the legal system I guess.
Click to expand...
Oh it's a legal wrangle, I thought these big corporations were basically able to strongarm the gov't due to their size and jobs created. I'll have to do some further reading.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,594
skybluetony176 said:
Hardly. Hinckley is overdue and over budget, that’s just fact and not a little bit either. EDF, the other partner in it is apparently taking a £10B hit and has pretty much said it isn’t getting involved in another project which brings you onto another issue I didn’t mention before but how likely is it that we can get someone to build it in the first place. That on its own may make Nuclear expansion untenable in the UK.
Click to expand...

It’s overbudget in large part because of reactionary opposition and regulation. As I say SK builds for 1/6 of the cost.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,595
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Starmer getting tied up in knots already on Sky
Click to expand...

He is being asked to account for every single penny he's going to spend in the next 5 years to be fair.

Rigby might actually make Sunak cry. Hopefully.
 
Reactions: oakey

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,596
skybluetony176 said:
The nuclear solution is overstated. Look at Hinckley Point C. Over budget and overdue. Final bill is expected to be over 4 times the original estimate. The idea was first conceived in 2010, was supposed to be completed by 2020 and now it doesn’t look like it will be finished by 2030
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That's not an argument against nuclear it's an argument for updating our planning regulations and getting rid of the NIMBYism we have to deal with.

A G7 economy should be able to build nuclear power plants and high speed rail without blinking.
 
Reactions: Skybluekyle and clint van damme

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,597
shmmeee said:
It’s overbudget in large part because of reactionary opposition and regulation. As I say SK builds for 1/6 of the cost.
Click to expand...
And even if we built at the SK costs price per Mwh it’s still more than renewable's in the UK. SK produces nuclear at about £22 per Mwh, renewables in the UK produces at between £10-20 per Mwh depending on the type of renewable. Hinckley Point C is going to produce at about £128 per Mwh. The arguments for nuclear are falling down.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,598
Liquid Gold said:
That's not an argument against nuclear it's an argument for updating our planning regulations and getting rid of the NIMBYism we have to deal with.

A G7 economy should be able to build nuclear power plants and high speed rail without blinking.
Click to expand...
You may be right on regulations but Hinckley is an existing nuclear site so I don’t think nimbyism was too much of a problem.

You’re 100% right that we’re shit at large infrastructure especially high speed rail though. Japan can build high speed rail far cheaper than us even when the majority is in tunnels.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,599
PVA said:
He is being asked to account for every single penny he's going to spend in the next 5 years to be fair.

Rigby might actually make Sunak cry. Hopefully.
Click to expand...
No, he was just asked about flip flopping and breaking his pledges.
 

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,600
skybluetony176 said:
And even if we built at the SK costs price per Mwh it’s still more than renewable's in the UK. SK produces nuclear at about £22 per Mwh, renewables in the UK produces at between £10-20 per Mwh depending on the type of renewable. Hinckley Point C is going to produce at about £128 per Mwh. The arguments for nuclear are falling down.
Click to expand...
Not really.

The the way we implement large infrastructure projects in this county are the issue. We a spectacularly bad at getting anything done here.
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,601
Brighton Sky Blue said:
No, he was just asked about flip flopping and breaking his pledges.
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Alternatively he has to herd cats leading the Labour party - so making pledges and then shifting when reality bites is the sign of a pragmatic person not an ideologue.
 
Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
Reactions: Ian1779, stupot07, Brighton Sky Blue and 3 others
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,602
I think he's done pretty well on the audience questioning. Much more comfortable and relaxed in that format than the one on on grilling where he did flap a couple of times.

Sunak is going to get an absolute pasting.
 
Reactions: oakey and torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,603
No one who is an "average working man" can afford to send their kid to private school.

Rigby is fucking annoying. Wonder if she interrupts Sunak as much as she did Starmer.
 
Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
Reactions: duffer
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,604
Sunak getting contempt from the audience
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,605
oakey said:
Alternatively he has to herd cats leading the Labour party - so making pledges and then shifting when reality bites is the sign of a pragmatic person not an ideologue.
Click to expand...
He has gone on national TV today to make the famous George Bush pledge: ‘Mark my words, no new taxes’.

Bush couldn’t keep his promise, nor will Starmer. Not that he needed to in the first place.
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys and SIR ERNIE

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,606
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Starmer getting tied up in knots already on Sky
Click to expand...
Fuck me you don't half talk some utter shite at times.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,607
Rigby was far softer on Sunak then Starter.
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,608
Brighton Sky Blue said:
He has gone on national TV today to make the famous George Bush pledge: ‘Mark my words, no new taxes’.

Bush couldn’t keep his promise, nor will Starmer. Not that he needed to in the first place.
Click to expand...
So, what point are you making exactly?
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,609
stupot07 said:
Rigby was far softer on Sunak then Starter.
Click to expand...
And still it's like watching a car crash
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,610
stupot07 said:
Rigby was far softer on Sunak then Starter.
Click to expand...

She was, but she didn't need to be hard on him, he still got absolutely skewered.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,611
A first time buyer in Grimsby could buy this stamp duty free.

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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,612
oakey said:
So, what point are you making exactly?
Click to expand...
That he will break his pledges to the country just as he did to the Labour membership.
 
Reactions: Ian1779
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,613
David O'Day said:
Fuck me you don't half talk some utter shite at times.
Click to expand...
Rewatch the opening 10 minutes.
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,614
Brighton Sky Blue said:
That he will break his pledges to the country just as he did to the Labour membership.
Click to expand...
As you are making this prediction, why do you believe Starmer will break his pledges?
Do you think they are too ambitious, impractical? Will events make some changes inevitable? Does he have Machiavellian secret plans? Is he just insincere or incompetent?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,615
oakey said:
As you are making this prediction, why do you believe Starmer will break his pledges?
Do you think they are too ambitious, impractical? Will events make some changes inevitable? Does he have Machiavellian secret plans? Is he just insincere or incompetent?
Click to expand...
Did you watch/hear what he promised tonight?
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,616
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Did you watch/hear what he promised tonight?
Click to expand...
Answer a question with a question.
Okay. You are the one who needs to support the assertion that he will break his pledges. I have not suggested he will or asserted that he won't.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,617
oakey said:
Answer a question with a question.
Okay. You are the one who needs to support the assertion that he will break his pledges. I have not suggested he will or asserted that he won't.
Click to expand...
So you want to know why I think someone with a history of breaking pledges might break more pledges? Particularly one that is ‘no extra taxes’?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,618
shmmeee said:
What do you do about super heavy electric cars damaging the roads though? It’s not all anti pollution it has to fix potholes and stuff to.
Click to expand...
Take all taxes of fuels and VED and do road pricing / cost per mile.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,619
oakey said:
Answer a question with a question.
Okay. You are the one who needs to support the assertion that he will break his pledges. I have not suggested he will or asserted that he won't.
Click to expand...
His track record on making pledges and sticking to them isn't great to say the least. Surely you can see why that would lead people to be less than certain he is going to stick to any pledges he gives now.
 
Reactions: duffer, Ian1779 and Brighton Sky Blue

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,620
shmmeee said:
Carbon tax would surely work for this. Perhaps with a modifier for altitude as I understand that’s what makes aviation particularly nasty.
Click to expand...
Tax fuel for lesuire boats, yachts etc, at the same rate as for road vehicles.
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,621
Brighton Sky Blue said:
So you want to know why I think someone with a history of breaking pledges might break more pledges? Particularly one that is ‘no extra taxes’?
Click to expand...
Not if you don't wish to explain. Up to you. Maybe you already have.
No politician except an ideologue or a time traveller can keep all their pledges. Perhaps they should only make vague broad brush outlines. Don't think that would suffice.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,622
oakey said:
Not if you don't wish to explain. Up to you. Maybe you already have.
No politician except an ideologue or a time traveller can keep all their pledges. Perhaps they should only make vague broad brush outlines. Don't think that would suffice.
Click to expand...
Ok. He has pledged at most modest tax increases in a limited number of areas, while also pledging higher spending and investment while fixing serious societal problems.

How does he make that work? Why is he so afraid to support raising taxes on the wealthy and big business?
 
Reactions: duffer

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,623
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Not read anything along those lines. Regardless the long term energy security for Europe and Africa lies in the desert in my view, but it would require investment and collaboration on a scale that will never happen with the Western governments that keep getting elected.
Click to expand...
Let’s not give the Arabs another source of income to put in to Man. City and Newcastle,
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,624
Brighton Sky Blue said:
He has gone on national TV today to make the famous George Bush pledge: ‘Mark my words, no new taxes’.

Bush couldn’t keep his promise, nor will Starmer. Not that he needed to in the first place.
Click to expand...
To be fair that has a lot of wiggle room.

No new taxes could be interpreted as I won't invent any new taxes (though would rule out a wealth tax). "No new taxes" is not the same as "no increases to existing taxes".
 
Reactions: oakey

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,625
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I know this might sound a bit mad, but I think we may well be at a point whereby things like tax bands and to an extent tax rates should be sorted from the data/stats, rather than being used as much as a political football.

One of the main points of tax is to redistribute wealth by taking from those with a lot to provide services for those at the bottom who can't afford them.

So if you have the info on income levels, you could look at, say, the 50th percentile and the top 10% and work out the difference and however many times more the earnings are at the 90th percentile is some sort of multiplier for the upper tax rate, and also sets the income level at which it is paid. If society is fairer then that upper rate will automatically be low. If we have a huge discrepancy it will be large. It automatically reflects the society we're living in.

Tax free personal allowance should be set at the amount people need to pay rent/mortgage, bills and food. Then you can see what percentile that relates to and maybe work out a basic rate from that as well. Plus should you choose you can add in further tax bands based on percentiles, for example a super rich tax on the top 1% compared to what they have over the top 10%.

I know this doesn't cover the big issue of accumulated wealth (I think something along the lines of treating inheritance as income rather than a separate IHT could be a possibility), but would need access to all the data (and a lot of free time!) to turn it into a detailed, potentially workable solution.
Click to expand...
Teh super rich would just live elsewhere in that scenario, as they did under Wilson.
 
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