Ian1779
Well-Known Member
That’s like being asked to chose your favourite type of shit to put in a sandwich.
That’s like being asked to chose your favourite type of shit to put in a sandwich.Think Johnson’s on his way out TBH.
Who do we want in next?
Probably a straight fight between Liz “disgraceful cheese” Truss and Rishi “Rishi Sunak for the Rishi Sunak Party” Sunak.
Have a look at their voting records, they're all Tory cunts regardless of their position on brexitYeah the answer, as it often is, is Brexit.
Some decent Tories in that list.
We're just left with the dregs now.
Have a look at their voting records, they're all Tory cunts regardless of their position on brexit
Have a look at their voting records, they're all Tory cunts regardless of their position on brexit
The options are no improvement. The current cabinet is the most talentless bunch of chancers ever assembled. To the point where if you picked the worse minister for each position in the entire history of that position you’d end up with the current cabinet.That’s like being asked to chose your favourite type of shit to put in a sandwich.
Inexplicably Johnson is the reason they are so popular with the electorate, for now at least. Neither of those two would be anywhere near as popular.Think Johnson’s on his way out TBH.
Who do we want in next?
Probably a straight fight between Liz “disgraceful cheese” Truss and Rishi “Rishi Sunak for the Rishi Sunak Party” Sunak.
She’s as guilty as they come JesusHas she been found guilty - have I missed something?
The depressing thing is Johnson's probably the best option!Think Johnson’s on his way out TBH.
Who do we want in next?
Probably a straight fight between Liz “disgraceful cheese” Truss and Rishi “Rishi Sunak for the Rishi Sunak Party” Sunak.
Inexplicably Johnson is the reason they are so popular with the electorate, for now at least. Neither of those two would be anywhere near as popular.
Polling suggests Sunak is reasonably popular, just his economics that isn’t.
He's reasonably popular because he's not everywhere and still largely an unknown despite being Chancellor. Make him Leader and have him front and centre and I think it'd evaporate over the following year or two. Nick Clegg was popular for a while... As you say the thing people don't like is his economics. The only thing he has to provide at the moment is economics. He doesn't have the charisma of Johnson and people won't put up with this shit from someone who's incredibly dull.
He's only popular because of eat out to help out. It’s as basic as that. People think he's great because they got some half price food, if he was making the crass errors that Johnson does as PM he would soon become very unpopular. He doesn't have the sort of charisma Johnson seems to have.He's reasonably popular because he's not everywhere and still largely an unknown despite being Chancellor. Make him Leader and have him front and centre and I think it'd evaporate over the following year or two. Nick Clegg was popular for a while... As you say the thing people don't like is his economics. The only thing he has to provide at the moment is economics. He doesn't have the charisma of Johnson and people won't put up with this shit from someone who's incredibly dull.
He's reasonably popular because he's not everywhere and still largely an unknown despite being Chancellor. Make him Leader and have him front and centre and I think it'd evaporate over the following year or two. Nick Clegg was popular for a while... As you say the thing people don't like is his economics. The only thing he has to provide at the moment is economics. He doesn't have the charisma of Johnson and people won't put up with this shit from someone who's incredibly dull.
I think Sunak is a much tougher opponent for Starmer who’s main draw is “I’m competent” TBH. If I was Tory HQ it’s who I’d go for. Plus he’s the pay you to stay home and eat half price Nando’s guy.
Sunak maybe would be tougher for Starmer, but I think he would have the slight upper hand as he'd be going up against someone more like him rather than fighting the personality. He's used to that in court and I think he'd feel more comfortable with it.
And does stuff like that really matter in terms of getting elected? Johnson remains more popular than Starmer despite the myriad of shit surrounding him because of his personality, not his ability or his work ethic.
Sunak v Starmer would be dull and duller, which could work against Starmer as people would stop paying attention to politics and just stick with what they know.
And while Sunak is the 'stay at home and get cheap food' guy he's also the 'massive NI hike rather than tax the rich' guy, You'd have also thought being a ex-public schoolboy and being the richest guy in parliament who married a billionnaire heiress wouldn't exactly make him a 'man of the people' considering they don't see Starmer as one just because he's a Sir.
I honestly think Sunak's popularity would very quickly disappear if he became leader.
Fair enough. China, Brazil and India parents don’t want the best for their children. Ok yep I’m sure you’re rightyour first sentence is absurd. China is a corrupt brutal regime that persecutes its civilians - especially “their daughters” on a daily basis. Brazil don’t believe climate change exists. Honestly that is an absurd position to take
The man of the people stuff doesn't seem to actually relate to their background though. Look at Johnson, he's hardly had a tough upbringing and he's considered a man of the people.And while Sunak is the 'stay at home and get cheap food' guy he's also the 'massive NI hike rather than tax the rich' guy, You'd have also thought being a ex-public schoolboy and being the richest guy in parliament who married a billionnaire heiress wouldn't exactly make him a 'man of the people' considering they don't see Starmer as one just because he's a Sir.
The man of the people stuff doesn't seem to actually relate to their background though. Look at Johnson, he's hardly had a tough upbringing and he's considered a man of the people.
Not sure Sunak has the personality to pull it off though, as has been said it may be playing into Starmers hands to give him someone to debate with rather than someone who throws out jokes and soundbites.
Fair enough. China, Brazil and India parents don’t want the best for their children. Ok yep I’m sure you’re right
tbf, it always has been! Detail is not his strong point...Some (a lot) of the recent decision making is just shambolic
I think when BSB was packing his bags for sunny Scotland a few weeks back when a few others inc me said two years is a long time in politics
The Johnson of today struggles in an election campaign, the positivity, cheeriness, ‘boosterism’ etc has gone. I don’t think he’s the same since getting and nearly dying of Covid, add that to the various other issues since (mainly pandemic and Brexit related), sticking with a weak/loyal cabinet rather than a more competent/challenging one plus having a new kid, he just looks done. Some (a lot) of the recent decision making is just shambolic
Whether he gets ‘it’ back for when an elections called, who knows. without it, if Starmer holds middle ground he’s got a very good chance of beating Johnson ...or a Truss or Sunak.
Sunaks obviously bright, apparently extremely hard working but just not sure after 11 years of Tory government how he or Truss, who appears competent, sells another 4 years without someone like Corbyn opposite. As was highlighted in the Blair and Brown doc, there’s a natural negative pull on parties that have been in power for any length of time and post pandemic theres unlikely to be much economic good news pre election to counter that
As I say, who knows though...politics is funny one and Covid could still come up with some surprises that change the political landscape again
I wish they did live on a different planetWell the evidence proves they don't - China want economic dominance, India is probably the most racist and discriminatory place I have been to and Brazil and the whole of Latin America is massively corrupt. They operate literally on a different planet to the Western world
There is a past sell by date for parties in power - there is no question of that - but the dying embers of Thatcher / Major and then Blair / Brown you knew was coming. There was a momentum to change. It is not the same here. There is no momentum at all behind Starmer - he's a poor leader and when your deputy clearly hates your guts and you retain her its a problem. He has no passion or drive. Kinnock never was elected but he set the seeds for the party with brave and bold choices. He knew the reason Labour was not electable and stood up against it. Starmer is pathetic really. He stands for nothing - no brand or vision - so with him in charge I do not see the electorate engaging with him. If Labour was a PLC you'd dump him and get Burnham in whatever it cost - but they will not
It seems (bar Corbyn!) that the people in charge of public image are a bit stuck in a rut, in terms of trying to do what worked with Blair. The problem being, of course, that it worked with him because of who he was - it was *really* noticable with Brown (his USP by the time he was leader should have been that he was not-Blair) and Milliband seemed constrained when leader. Starmer, too, is nowhere near as impressive as he was when debating Brexit etc, when he made mincemeat of whoever was in front of him.Agree with a lot of that. What I’d say about Burnham is he’s been entirely different since leaving the PLP. He was drab in the leadership campaign. Milliband as well got much better away from the LOTO office.
I wonder how much Labours problem isn’t the leader but the circus around them. Also there’s a storm brewing with the activists at some point that someone’s going to have to lance and it won’t be pretty. Starmer seems to pull his punches there to avoid the full shitshow and in reality is just extending it.
Is there a limit to how many terms he can have in Manchester? If there isn't it must be very tempting to stay there rather than make a bid to get back into parliament.Agree with a lot of that. What I’d say about Burnham is he’s been entirely different since leaving the PLP. He was drab in the leadership campaign. Milliband as well got much better away from the LOTO office.
Too much attention is paid to focus groups and the like and trying to make them something they aren't. Can't be a coincidence that pretty much all leaders, of both parties, come across better post leadership when they don't have the political machine telling them what to do.It seems (bar Corbyn!) that the people in charge of public image are a bit stuck in a rut, in terms of trying to do what worked with Blair. The problem being, of course, that it worked with him because of who he was - it was *really* noticable with Brown (his USP by the time he was leader should have been that he was not-Blair) and Milliband seemed constrained when leader. Starmer, too, is nowhere near as impressive as he was when debating Brexit etc, when he made mincemeat of whoever was in front of him.
Is there a limit to how many terms he can have in Manchester? If there isn't it must be very tempting to stay there rather than make a bid to get back into parliament.
Marr joins Neil & Kuenssberg in leaving the BBC. He's off to LBC. To be honest he's sadly not been his best since his illness.
Opportunity now for the beeb to revamp their political coverage, be interesting to see who they bring in or promote. Not sure there's any glaringly obvious candidates for internal promotion.
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