Do you want to discuss boring politics? (129 Viewers)

wingy · Mar 20, 2021

I see we're likely being taken to court over state aid for tax arrangements in Gibraltar .
Apparently historical cases involving 4 multinational companies where we haven't collected sufficiently /adequately.

Here's an old article from around 8 yrs ago, sort of illustrates through the prism of time and events the shift going on .
No Idea if it's exactly the same issue going on .
Noting France has always appeared to dispense state aid at s certain level .

Luxembourg accused of supplying 'state aid' to Amazon | The Bookseller

Luxembourg provided “s

www.thebookseller.com

Skybluefaz · Mar 20, 2021

Spain to launch trial of four-day working week | Spain | The Guardian

Government agrees to proposal from leftwing party Más País allowing companies to test reduced hours

amp.theguardian.com

Four day working week gathering interest and momentum.

chiefdave · Mar 20, 2021

wingy said:
Well what do you do or think

Carers who sleep overnight at work in case they are needed not entitled to minimum wage for whole shift - Supreme Court rules

Judges dismiss appeals from two care workers - while care organisations say they've avoided a "catastrophic financial outcome".

news.sky.com

Should be paid IMO. On call is a cop it for companies who want to provide a round the clock service, which you know they are charging for, but don't want to pay to properly staff it. Even worse when you're talking about staff on minimum wage.

I work in IT support and on-call has exploded in the last 10 or so years. Lost count of the number of times the 'nobody ever calls' excuse has been given for not paying people who are on-call even when you've got data clearly showing thats not true.

If companies want to offer a 24/365 service then employ, and pay, enough people to work a shift pattern that covers that. As far as I'm concerned if I'm not free to do what I want with my own time then I'm working and should be getting paid.

shmmeee · Mar 20, 2021

So much recent “innovation” has just been around finding ways to screw workers over. Uber, Deliveroo, package companies, IT, warehousing, you name it and somewhere some poor bugger is paying for your next day delivery/cheap taxi/whatever through “self employment” or “on call” or “agency” or not paying travel time.

Needs cracking down on across the board.

Marty · Mar 20, 2021

Skybluefaz said:
Spain to launch trial of four-day working week | Spain | The Guardian

Government agrees to proposal from leftwing party Más País allowing companies to test reduced hours

amp.theguardian.com

Four day working week gathering interest and momentum.

My place has been going on about it for the past year or so, same hours but over 4 days instead of 5. So far, they've taken away an unpaid lunch (half hour) and replaced it with a 20 minute paid break and allowing me to finish 30 minutes earlier.

chiefdave · Mar 21, 2021

Skybluefaz said:
Spain to launch trial of four-day working week | Spain | The Guardian

Government agrees to proposal from leftwing party Más País allowing companies to test reduced hours

amp.theguardian.com

Four day working week gathering interest and momentum.

Got a couple of mates who are on 4 day weeks, one has been for over 10 years, the other more recent. Both say the same thing @Evo1883 mentioned on another thread, makes a huge difference as work no longer dominates your life. They also say their companies have seen increased productivity and employee retention since making the change.

They both live in other countries, one in Sweden, the other in Australia. Suspect it'll be a long time before we see many companies here bring something like that in. If my industry is anything to go by we're going in the opposite direction and expecting people to work ever increasing hours to cover the work of people who have been made redundant. When I started it was strictly 35 hours a week, now its 50 plus hours a week.

chiefdave · Mar 21, 2021

shmmeee said:
not paying travel time

I had that one. Was working for a company whose client base was supposed to be entirely in Hampshire. They took on a client in London and expected me to travel there, with traffic it added 6 hours or more a day. Of course the travel time wasn't paid as "our quote wouldn't be competitive if we paid travel time". Don't quote then!

Months of doing that 3 - 5 times a week was not fun.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 21, 2021

Got some people in the City making complaints that they're having to work 95 hour weeks. Want to have that maximised to 80, which is still a ridiculous number but those in the industry are fighting it.

That's what happens when you get people utterly obsessed with money in charge. Couldn't give a fuck about the toll it takes on people mentally and physically - the £££ makes it all worthwhile.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 21, 2021

chiefdave said:
I had that one. Was working for a company whose client base was supposed to be entirely in Hampshire. They took on a client in London and expected me to travel there, with traffic it added 6 hours or more a day. Of course the travel time wasn't paid as "our quote wouldn't be competitive if we paid travel time". Don't quote then!

Months of doing that 3 - 5 times a week was not fun.

Would it have been more worthwhile to have found somewhere to rent for a short time nearby? Appreciate cost and time away from family but when you consider petrol and just the time and effect it has on you would it have been worth it? Or did you have jobs to do in Hampshire at the same time?

Skybluefaz · Mar 21, 2021

chiefdave said:
Got a couple of mates who are on 4 day weeks, one has been for over 10 years, the other more recent. Both say the same thing @Evo1883 mentioned on another thread, makes a huge difference as work no longer dominates your life. They also say their companies have seen increased productivity and employee retention since making the change.

They both live in other countries, one in Sweden, the other in Australia. Suspect it'll be a long time before we see many companies here bring something like that in. If my industry is anything to go by we're going in the opposite direction and expecting people to work ever increasing hours to cover the work of people who have been made redundant. When I started it was strictly 35 hours a week, now its 50 plus hours a week.

It's not going to be easy particularly for service industries. I do think if companies are willing to adapt they will see productivity benefits.

skybluetony176 · Mar 22, 2021

Well, at least the Tories have missed out on looking hypocrites.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-56442994

wingy · Mar 23, 2021

MPs defeat bid to save leaseholders from huge fire safety bills

Amendments to stop building owners passing on the costs of fixing defects were defeated in a Commons vote

www.theguardian.com

chiefdave · Mar 23, 2021

wingy said:
MPs defeat bid to save leaseholders from huge fire safety bills

Amendments to stop building owners passing on the costs of fixing defects were defeated in a Commons vote

www.theguardian.com

Sadly this kind of thing isn't in the slightest bit surprising anymore.

wingy · Mar 23, 2021

chiefdave said:
Sadly this kind of thing isn't in the slightest bit surprising anymore.

No,. have to envisage many personal bankruptcies

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2021

wingy said:
MPs defeat bid to save leaseholders from huge fire safety bills

Amendments to stop building owners passing on the costs of fixing defects were defeated in a Commons vote

www.theguardian.com

Any Tories around want to defend this?

wingy · Mar 23, 2021

Imagine living those aspiring lives as a result of this one vote ,the personal wreckage.

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2021

One for the Starmer haters. Labour’s polling vs a year ago. Closed the gap by 15 points during a time the government are handing out free cash to stay at home. Could be worse.

clint van damme · Mar 23, 2021

shmmeee said:
One for the Starmer haters. Labour’s polling vs a year ago. Closed the gap by 15 points during a time the government are handing out free cash to stay at home. Could be worse.

Either people are waking up to how fuckng useless and corruption this government is r what he's doing is working.
It still doesn't inspire me personally at the moment

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2021

clint van damme said:
Either people are waking up to how fuckng useless and corruption this government is r what he's doing is working.
It still doesn't inspire me personally at the moment

Same but that’s probably a good thing. I’m still hoping people want a bit of Biden style boring stability, but it’s a long time to the next election so who knows where we’ll be.

Ian1779 · Mar 23, 2021

shmmeee said:
One for the Starmer haters. Labour’s polling vs a year ago. Closed the gap by 15 points during a time the government are handing out free cash to stay at home. Could be worse.

Not sure people are Starmer haters.... just find virtually nothing to be inspired about.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Mar 23, 2021

chiefdave said:
Got a couple of mates who are on 4 day weeks, one has been for over 10 years, the other more recent. Both say the same thing @Evo1883 mentioned on another thread, makes a huge difference as work no longer dominates your life. They also say their companies have seen increased productivity and employee retention since making the change.

They both live in other countries, one in Sweden, the other in Australia. Suspect it'll be a long time before we see many companies here bring something like that in. If my industry is anything to go by we're going in the opposite direction and expecting people to work ever increasing hours to cover the work of people who have been made redundant. When I started it was strictly 35 hours a week, now its 50 plus hours a week.

I lived in Sweden when they trialled the four day working week, and the six hour working day. Was pretty good.

Certainly for me, I noticed a difference even working from home one day a week.

clint van damme · Mar 23, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I lived in Sweden when they trialled the four day working week, and the six hour working day. Was pretty good.

Certainly for me, I noticed a difference even working from home one day a week.

Did they implement it permanently?

chiefdave · Mar 23, 2021

clint van damme said:
Did they implement it permanently?

My mate who works in Sweden and he's been on it for years. Says it makes a huge difference. Don't think its mandatory or anything like that, down to individual companies. But as it seems to lead to increased productivity, less sick days and increased employee retention why would companies resist it?

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2021

Ian1779 said:
Not sure people are Starmer haters.... just find virtually nothing to be inspired about.

Im only playing.

Just gave up reading a long read on him, which kind of proves your point

Skybluefaz · Mar 23, 2021

This from the man who wrote a column both for and against Brexit.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 23, 2021

shmmeee said:
Im only playing.

Just gave up reading a long read on him, which kind of proves your point

He's a bit like the Sunday lunches I had growing up. Overcooked, tough meat, boiled and bland vegetables with a side of cauliflower cheese, and everyone except BSB thinks it's delicious.

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2021

Again, I am not saying Johnson is a fascist, but he does keep doing the sorts of things fascists like to do.

Also: The Eton educated former Mayor of London talking about metropolitan elites.

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He's a bit like the Sunday lunches I had growing up. Overcooked, tough meat, boiled and bland vegetables with a side of cauliflower cheese, and everyone except BSB thinks it's delicious.

I love cauliflower cheese

Ian1779 · Mar 23, 2021

shmmeee said:
I love cauliflower cheese

Delectable, maybe not electable.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 23, 2021

shmmeee said:
I love cauliflower cheese

It's as disgusting as broccoli just more beige

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It's as disgusting as broccoli just more beige

That’s what the cheese is for.

skybluetony176 · Mar 23, 2021

Cauliflower is great. Takes on flavour, great in curries as a substitute for chicken and buffalo cauliflower wings are awesome. You just need to cook it properly.

David O'Day · Mar 23, 2021

shmmeee said:
Again, I am not saying Johnson is a fascist, but he does keep doing the sorts of things fascists like to do.

Also: The Eton educated former Mayor of London talking about metropolitan elites.

The New York born Eton educated former Mayor of London you mean?

wingy · Mar 23, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I lived in Sweden when they trialled the four day working week, and the six hour working day. Was pretty good.

Certainly for me, I noticed a difference even working from home one day a week.

The question I guess is does it make people more productive which is the object of this trial .
I certainly know I couldn't have worked harder physically for the past 48 yrs .
I do know you can get diminishing returns by throwing too much at something.
But where flights and Hotel accomodation, expenses were involved longer days from a smaller crew were deemed a saving and a competitive tool ,among home and local contractors .
Doing all that while appearing well rewarded would have been drastically cut on a 40 hr operation.
In fact I'd have been as well rewarded as a tradesman on the council or similar , possibly more secure,not as knackered out definitely.
So that leaves the question of this trial as to whether you can maintain incomes via the hours reduction by proving it increases production .
I hope they can .
Unfortunately that French shift pattern in manufacturing wasn't aimed at reducing the hours .

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 23, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
Cauliflower is great. Takes on flavour, great in curries as a substitute for chicken and buffalo cauliflower wings are awesome. You just need to cook it properly.

The flavour is abhorrent

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (129 Viewers)

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