Do you want to discuss boring politics? (11 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
I guess you were pretty confident in your prediction as you knew he'd got at least 1 vote:

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics)

This thread is insufferable. I am apolitical, and I fail to see anyone from any party in this mess, who would have handled the crisis in a way to please all the keyboard experts. Theirs cunts on the left as well as the right, not just in politics but also in the world of keyboard warriors.

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Clearly you think it’s a gotcha but a few points. I live in a safe Tory seat so the reality is my vote changed nothing in terms of delivering a conservative majority, despite that if I could go back in time and change my vote I would. I clearly mistakenly put my faith in Cameron, a bit like how you put your faith in the Tories and ultimately Boris Johnson in 2016 by voting leave. Difference between me and you is I’m repentant for putting my faith in the Tories whereas you are more steadfast than ever in putting your faith in the Tories and Boris Johnson. How’s that working out for you.

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Clearly you think it’s a gotcha but a few points. I live in a safe Tory seat so the reality is my vote changed nothing in terms of delivering a conservative majority, despite that if I could go back in time and change my vote I would. I clearly mistakenly put my faith in Cameron, a bit like how you put your faith in the Tories and ultimately Boris Johnson in 2016 by voting leave. Difference between me and you is I’m repentant for putting my faith in the Tories whereas you are more steadfast than ever in putting your faith in the Tories and Boris Johnson. How’s that working out for you.

You said you would vote leave in a second referendum Tony

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 24, 2023

Rugby was a Labour constituency until 2010! And before I get the nonsense about boundary changes, it was a Labour constituency under Bill Price for years... Taking Kenilworth out of it would make it more likely to be Labour, but the voters do like re-electing the sitting MP, regardless of rosette.

fernandopartridge · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Clearly you think it’s a gotcha but a few points. I live in a safe Tory seat so the reality is my vote changed nothing in terms of delivering a conservative majority, despite that if I could go back in time and change my vote I would. I clearly mistakenly put my faith in Cameron, a bit like how you put your faith in the Tories and ultimately Boris Johnson in 2016 by voting leave. Difference between me and you is I’m repentant for putting my faith in the Tories whereas you are more steadfast than ever in putting your faith in the Tories and Boris Johnson. How’s that working out for you.

I have never voted for the Conservative party, you have. You voted for the one with the manifesto commitment to a referendum. You really are a confused man.

I voted leave and whilst I regret it to an extent, it was never a vote for the Conservative party. The Prime Minister at the time of the referendum was David Cameron, the one you voted in.

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
Rugby was a Labour constituency until 2010! And before I get the nonsense about boundary changes, it was a Labour constituency under Bill Price for years... Taking Kenilworth out of it would make it more likely to be Labour, but the voters do like re-electing the sitting MP, regardless of rosette.

Why would Tony then vote Corbyn in a safe Tory seat if it made no difference? It’s a ridiculous argument.

PVA · Feb 24, 2023

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
Why would Tony then vote Corbyn in a safe Tory seat if it made no difference? It’s a ridiculous argument.

As a small aside we'll see what happens at the next election. Unpopular government, incumbent MP standing down... Conservative Party need to choose very wisely... even more so if half their votes are closet Labour voters after all!

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
I have never voted for the Conservative party, you have. You voted for the one with the manifesto commitment to a referendum. You really are a confused man.

I voted leave and whilst I regret it to an extent, it was never a vote for the Conservative party. The Prime Minister at the time of the referendum was David Cameron, the one you voted in.

he voted Tory in 4 of the first 6 general elections he voted in. He’s actually I think from memory voted Tory as much as I have in general elections

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
As a small aside we'll see what happens at the next election. Unpopular government, incumbent MP standing down... Conservative Party need to choose very wisely... even more so if half their votes are closet Labour voters after all!

Tony will probably vote for the Reform Candidate

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
Why would Tony then vote Corbyn in a safe Tory seat if it made no difference? It’s a ridiculous argument.

Because it’s my right to vote for whoever I like. Regardless of their chances of winning. A bit like supporting Coventry, I don’t expect us in a million years to win the premier league but I still support Coventry.

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Because it’s my right to vote for whoever I like. Regardless of their chances of winning. A bit like supporting Coventry, I don’t expect us in a million years to win the premier league but I still support Coventry.

So you supported Cameron in 2015 as you wanted his manifesto - including a referendum - to be delivered

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 24, 2023

I'm just relieved my Lib Dem dalliance ended before Nick Clegg got his wicked way...

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
I have never voted for the Conservative party, you have. You voted for the one with the manifesto commitment to a referendum. You really are a confused man.

I voted leave and whilst I regret it to an extent, it was never a vote for the Conservative party. The Prime Minister at the time of the referendum was David Cameron, the one you voted in.

Okay here’s what would have happened if we voted remain. Cameron would have limped on to 2019/20 or until he handed the reins over ahead of the next scheduled GE. The Tories would have continued infighting and the political focus would have been on the failure of Tory policy, most notably the failure of austerity.

Okay here’s what actually happened because we voted leave. The political landscape changed in an instance switching the focus from failed Tory policies to Brexit. That enabled Boris Johnson to be PM and the Red Wall to collapse.

Is the penny dropping yet?

We could have been around 3 years into the next scheduled parliament right now and most likely with a labour government, maybe even your political hero Corbyn would have survived long enough without Brexit to be PM. Instead because you put your faith in the Tories we’ve had 4 Tory PM’s the collapse of the red wall purely because of Brexit handing Boris a massive majority and probably as much as 5 years of a Tory government we wouldn’t have otherwise had. Not to mention some of the MP’s you help to vomit on the country. Gullis and Anderson for example. All on you and everyone else who voted leave.

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
So you supported Cameron in 2015 as you wanted his manifesto - including a referendum - to be delivered

I was very much stuck in a tribalism mentality at that point in life. Still, I lived and learned.

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
I was very much stuck in a tribalism mentality at that point in life. Still, I lived and learned.

And you said you would vote leave Tony in a second referendum

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Okay here’s what would have happened if we voted remain. Cameron would have limped on to 2019/20 or until he handed the reins over ahead of the next scheduled GE. The Tories would have continued infighting and the political focus would have been on the failure of Tory policy, most notably the failure of austerity.

Okay here’s what actually happened because we voted leave. The political landscape changed in an instance switching the focus from failed Tory policies to Brexit. That enabled Boris Johnson to be PM and the Red Wall to collapse.

Is the penny dropping yet?

We could have been around 3 years into the next scheduled parliament right now and most likely with a labour government, maybe even your political hero Corbyn would have survived long enough without Brexit to be PM. Instead because you put your faith in the Tories we’ve had 4 Tory PM’s the collapse of the red wall purely because of Brexit handing Boris a massive majority and probably as much as 5 years of a Tory government we wouldn’t have otherwise had. Not to mention some of the MP’s you help to vomit on the country. Gullis and Anderson for example. All on you and everyone else who voted leave.

You also said you supported Camerons policy on austerity Tony

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Okay here’s what would have happened if we voted remain. Cameron would have limped on to 2019/20 or until he handed the reins over ahead of the next scheduled GE. The Tories would have continued infighting and the political focus would have been on the failure of Tory policy, most notably the failure of austerity.

Okay here’s what actually happened because we voted leave. The political landscape changed in an instance switching the focus from failed Tory policies to Brexit. That enabled Boris Johnson to be PM and the Red Wall to collapse.

Is the penny dropping yet?

We could have been around 3 years into the next scheduled parliament right now and most likely with a labour government, maybe even your political hero Corbyn would have survived long enough without Brexit to be PM. Instead because you put your faith in the Tories we’ve had 4 Tory PM’s the collapse of the red wall purely because of Brexit handing Boris a massive majority and probably as much as 5 years of a Tory government we wouldn’t have otherwise had. Not to mention some of the MP’s you help to vomit on the country. Gullis and Anderson for example. All on you and everyone else who voted leave.

Jeremy Corbyn was your hero in 2017 Tony

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
Jeremy Corbyn was your hero in 2017 Tony

Correct. Based on his manifesto.

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
And you said you would vote leave Tony in a second referendum

Did I?

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
You also said you supported Camerons policy on austerity Tony

At the time yes. But I saw the error of my ways.

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Did I?

Yes knob head Blair - who you also voted for

The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Lake Garda is amazing, haven't been for a few years but stayed in Riva in about 2010. Did Lake Como last year on the way to Liechtenstein, and finally Basel for the Europa League Final. What a road trip that was. We stopped by near the Anakin Skywalker palace from Star Wars which overlooks the...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

shmmeee · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
Yes knob head Blair - who you also voted for

The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Lake Garda is amazing, haven't been for a few years but stayed in Riva in about 2010. Did Lake Como last year on the way to Liechtenstein, and finally Basel for the Europa League Final. What a road trip that was. We stopped by near the Anakin Skywalker palace from Star Wars which overlooks the...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Best PM for the last 40 years. Prove me wrong.

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
Yes knob head Blair - who you also voted for

The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Lake Garda is amazing, haven't been for a few years but stayed in Riva in about 2010. Did Lake Como last year on the way to Liechtenstein, and finally Basel for the Europa League Final. What a road trip that was. We stopped by near the Anakin Skywalker palace from Star Wars which overlooks the...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Six years ago then. Before it became apparent what an absolute shit show it would be and how hopelessly optimistic project fear was. With the benefit of hindsight why the fuck would anyone vote leave now.

I really don’t know what it is you think you’re achieving here. I’m not a sociopath. I’m capable of reflection, seeing the error of my ways and adjusting. Might be a foreign concept to you but it isn’t to me.

CCFCSteve · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Okay here’s what would have happened if we voted remain. Cameron would have limped on to 2019/20 or until he handed the reins over ahead of the next scheduled GE. The Tories would have continued infighting and the political focus would have been on the failure of Tory policy, most notably the failure of austerity.

Okay here’s what actually happened because we voted leave. The political landscape changed in an instance switching the focus from failed Tory policies to Brexit. That enabled Boris Johnson to be PM and the Red Wall to collapse.

Is the penny dropping yet?

We could have been around 3 years into the next scheduled parliament right now and most likely with a labour government, maybe even your political hero Corbyn would have survived long enough without Brexit to be PM. Instead because you put your faith in the Tories we’ve had 4 Tory PM’s the collapse of the red wall purely because of Brexit handing Boris a massive majority and probably as much as 5 years of a Tory government we wouldn’t have otherwise had. Not to mention some of the MP’s you help to vomit on the country. Gullis and Anderson for example. All on you and everyone else who voted leave.

Got the lottery numbers for tomorrow ?

Let’s be honest nobody knows what would’ve happened. We’ve had two generational/lifetime incidents (covid and war) since the vote for starters. Actually when you look at what’s happened since 2008 you really couldn’t make it up

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

shmmeee said:
Best PM for the last 40 years. Prove me wrong.

well he lies about an illegal war for a start. Perhaps you should tell some of parents and widows of the murdered husbands and sons that Blair’s lies created.

why not visit them and see if they agree with you that the war mongerer was a good PM

Oh I’ve proved you wrong

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 24, 2023

CCFCSteve said:
Got the lottery numbers for tomorrow ?

Let’s be honest nobody knows what would’ve happened. We’ve had two generational/lifetime incidents (covid and war) since the vote for starters. Actually when you look at what’s happened since 2008 you really couldn’t make it up

I saw recently that the proposed merger of the two Bury successor clubs failed because it didn’t hit a two third threshold for support. Quite why we insist on that for a trivial local business merger but wedded ourselves to a 52-48 split I don’t know. But plenty in the 48% did predict it would damage the country on the balance of probabilities and they are undeniably right.

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

CCFCSteve said:
Got the lottery numbers for tomorrow ?

Let’s be honest nobody knows what would’ve happened. We’ve had two generational/lifetime incidents (covid and war) since the vote for starters. Actually when you look at what’s happened since 2008 you really couldn’t make it up

Well, you can with one simple question. Why did Corbyn lose the red wall if not because of brexit? Biggest socialist manifesto in decades and the socialist red wall turned its back on it. A nett loss of 60 seats. There is only one possible answer. Brexit.

CCFCSteve · Feb 24, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I saw recently that the proposed merger of the two Bury successor clubs failed because it didn’t hit a two third threshold for support. Quite why we insist on that for a trivial local business merger but wedded ourselves to a 52-48 split I don’t know. But plenty in the 48% did predict it would damage the country on the balance of probabilities and they are undeniably right.

My point was that Tony started predicting what would happen with leaders of parties, future elections etc. nobody knows. I honestly didn’t think Cameron would walk immediately after result, nor that May would be next in line, or that parliament would grind to a halt, that ERG would continue to try to force a hard Brexit, that certain remainers wouldn’t accept Mays deal and then her calling an election and fucking it up v Corbyn and Johnson getting in etc etc. so why would anyone know what would happen to the political landscape if we’d voted the other way ?!

ps agree that it shouldn’t have been just a straight/simple majority

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

shmmeee said:
Best PM for the last 40 years. Prove me wrong.

Depends on your yard stick. Longest period of sustained growth in UK history vs took us into an illegal war that has damaged the UK for decades. If he hadn’t done the latter I would say yes without a doubt but the fact is he did do the latter.

CCFCSteve · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Well, you can with one simple question. Why did Corbyn lose the red wall if not because of brexit? Biggest socialist manifesto in decades and the socialist red wall turned its back on it. A nett loss of 60 seats. There is only one possible answer. Brexit.

They didn’t in the election v May ? By the next election people were that fucked off with Parliament pissing about on one issue for three years they just wanted it out the way

Ps I think Corbyn himself was one of the main reasons in the most recent election

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

Grendel said:
well he lies about an illegal war for a start. Perhaps you should tell some of parents and widows of the murdered husbands and sons that Blair’s lies created.

why not visit them and see if they agree with you that the war mongerer was a good PM

Oh I’ve proved you wrong

Perhaps he was provoked. You know, like Putin.

fernandopartridge · Feb 24, 2023

shmmeee said:
Best PM for the last 40 years. Prove me wrong.

What about Brown? Probably doesn't get enough credit for steering through the global financial crisis. The problems since then all a result of the pointless and ideologically driven austerity.

skybluetony176 · Feb 24, 2023

CCFCSteve said:
They didn’t in the election v May ? By the next election people were that fucked off with Parliament pissing about on one issue for three years they just wanted it out the way

Ps I think Corbyn himself was one of the main reasons in the latest election

That’s because the Brexit battle lines were still being drawn. Come 2019 the lines were clear. Get Brexit done vs maybe get brexit done in some way. The Brexit voting red wall turned on him and Labour. His socialist manifesto meant nothing. He lost an election on a single issue that wouldn’t have even existed without a leave vote in the referendum. The irony being Corbyn is a true believer in brexit and Johnson isn’t.

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
What about Brown? Probably doesn't get enough credit for steering through the global financial crisis. The problems since then all a result of the pointless and ideologically driven austerity.

When asked the best labour leader none of the candidates said Blair at the last leadership election did they?

Grendel · Feb 24, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Perhaps he was provoked. You know, like Putin.

You ditched him as you leader at the ballot box after one term in office Tony

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