Non AMP
Sky Blues Talk
  • Home
  • Forums
  • General Discussion
  • Off Topic Chat
This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (112 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
Forums New posts
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 921
  • 922
  • 923
  • 924
  • 925
  • …
  • 1507
Next
First Prev 923 of 1507 Next Last

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,271
Time to cancel Owen Jones

 
Reactions: PVA and Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,272
Sky Blue Pete said:
We have to
Click to expand...

No one has to do anything
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,273
Grendel said:
No one has to do anything
Click to expand...
Our country does
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,274
Sky Blue Pete said:
Our country does
Click to expand...

It requires more than a zombie pale imitation of what already exists which will achieve nothing and a leader with zero integrity, values or ambition
 
Reactions: chiefdave

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,275
Sky Blue Pete said:
We have to
Click to expand...
Where is the evidence he has some sort of a plan?

He’s already talking about more austerity under the guise of ‘fiscal rules’
Doesn’t support the right to peaceful protest, the right to strike
Has watered down his supposed flagship Green policy
Won’t support a ceasefire in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Just what is the point of the man?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,276
Ian1779 said:
Where is the evidence he has some sort of a plan?

He’s already talking about more austerity under the guise of ‘fiscal rules’
Doesn’t support the right to peaceful protest, the right to strike
Has watered down his supposed flagship Green policy
Won’t support a ceasefire in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Just what is the point of the man?
Click to expand...
Rishi it is then
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,277
Ian1779 said:
Won’t support a ceasefire in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Click to expand...

You may have a point on the others, but if you read the Labour amendment you'll see that you are wrong on this one. Unless the issue is that the specific word ceasefire was not used?

  • there should be a cessation of fighting
  • all human life is equal and there have been far too many deaths of innocent civilians and children in Gaza
  • states that the International Criminal Court has jurisdiction to address the conduct of all parties in Gaza and Hamas’ attacks in Israel
  • calls on Israel to protect hospitals and lift the siege,
  • seeks a guarantee that people in Gaza who are forced to flee will return to their homes
  • calls explicitly for an end to the expansion of illegal settlements and end to settler violence in the West Bank,
  • demands that humanitarian assistance – food, water, fuel, electricity and medicine – be allowed in on a scale that begins to meet the desperate needs of the people of Gaza
  • sees this as “a necessary step to a lasting end to the fighting and a credible political process to deliver peace and a two-state solution.”
 
Last edited: Dec 4, 2023
Reactions: Grendel

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,278
PVA said:
You may have a point on the others, but if you read the Labour amendment you'll see that you are wrong on this one. Unless the issue is that the specific work ceasefire was not used?

  • there should be a cessation of fighting
  • all human life is equal and there have been far too many deaths of innocent civilians and children in Gaza
  • states that the International Criminal Court has jurisdiction to address the conduct of all parties in Gaza and Hamas’ attacks in Israel
  • calls on Israel to protect hospitals and lift the siege,
  • seeks a guarantee that people in Gaza who are forced to flee will return to their homes
  • calls explicitly for an end to the expansion of illegal settlements and end to settler violence in the West Bank,
  • demands that humanitarian assistance – food, water, fuel, electricity and medicine – be allowed in on a scale that begins to meet the desperate needs of the people of Gaza
  • sees this as “a necessary step to a lasting end to the fighting and a credible political process to deliver peace and a two-state solution.”
Click to expand...
So why won’t he come out and say it for himself publicly, instead of hiding behind an amendment.

This is the guy that will lead our country and hasn’t even got the conviction to stand behind his so-called words, which leads me to think he doesn’t believe in this.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,279
Sky Blue Pete said:
Rishi it is then
Click to expand...
That’s a lazy response. Maybe the best course of events would be for Starmer to be PM, but without an outright majority so he will have to require support of other parties that aren’t Tories.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,280
Ian1779 said:
So why won’t he come out and say it for himself publicly, instead of hiding behind an amendment.

This is the guy that will lead our country and hasn’t even got the conviction to stand behind his so-called words, which leads me to think he doesn’t believe in this.
Click to expand...

The answers to all your questions are “because that’s what’s most electorally expedient”. Taking bold stances on controversial issues just isn’t going to happen between now and the GE no matter how much you ask for it.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,281
Ian1779 said:
That’s a lazy response. Maybe the best course of events would be for Starmer to be PM, but without an outright majority so he will have to require support of other parties that aren’t Tories.
Click to expand...

“I want radical change and I’ll achieve this by forcing the Labour Party to be watered down by various right wing and centrist parties”
 
Reactions: Ian1779

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,282
shmmeee said:
The answers to all your questions are “because that’s what’s most electorally expedient”. Taking bold stances on controversial issues just isn’t going to happen between now and the GE no matter how much you ask for it.
Click to expand...

You think thats going to change after the election?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,283
clint van damme said:
You think thats going to change after the election?
Click to expand...

Dunno. But that’s not the question.

We don’t have a presidential system. Labour MPs will want Labour policy, and assuming a decent majority will be able to fight for it. Whereas if we get what you guys want it’ll be super tight discipline to get anything through and even more of an electoral focus.

People who go to become Labour MPs are left wing, no matter how much you’d like to pretend otherwise.
 
Reactions: PVA and Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,284
shmmeee said:
The answers to all your questions are “because that’s what’s most electorally expedient”. Taking bold stances on controversial issues just isn’t going to happen between now and the GE no matter how much you ask for it.
Click to expand...
And some people wonder why the country is the way it is
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,285
Brighton Sky Blue said:
And some people wonder why the country is the way it is
Click to expand...

Because of the kleptocracy of the last 13 years.

Nothing to do with Keir Starmer's electoral strategy.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Grendel
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,286
Kinnock's politics were more mine than Blair's, but Blair's government was more mine than Thatcher's or Major's.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,287
Brighton Sky Blue said:
And some people wonder why the country is the way it is
Click to expand...

Because the left refuses to get elected cos muh principles?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,288
shmmeee said:
The answers to all your questions are “because that’s what’s most electorally expedient”. Taking bold stances on controversial issues just isn’t going to happen between now and the GE no matter how much you ask for it.
Click to expand...

He leaves himself open to yet another claim that he is disingenuous which the media may or may not use depending on how they feel

What's the underlying assumption about the electorate's views on Israel / Palestine anyway?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,289
fernandopartridge said:
He leaves himself open to yet another claim that he is disingenuous which the media may or may not use depending on how they feel

What's the underlying assumption about the electorate's views on Israel / Palestine anyway?
Click to expand...

That the last bloke got battered for being antisemitic so probably best to err on the side of caution.

As I said at the time, Corbyns failures meant the next person had to overcorrect. We may have got a more nuanced position out of him (though not entirely sure what you’re after as has been stated he did call got a ceasefire), had he not had to exorcise the “Labour is antisemitic” meme the last guy created.

See also fiscal discipline. All of these are specifically tailored to counter voter perceptions of the party. This is basic electoral politics and the fact the left keeps wetting the bed over it just shows exactly the problem.

I don’t want Starmer. I want a much more radical government. But no one offering that is sane or capable. So this is what we’ve got.

When the Labour left produces something better than Pidcock, Corbyn, Burgeon, and Sultana to vote for they can start whining about the quality of the rest of the party quite frankly.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,290
It’s amazing when people start earning more money the ideology changes
 
Reactions: chiefdave, Brighton Sky Blue and Deleted member 5849

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,291
shmmeee said:
That the last bloke got battered for being antisemitic so probably best to err on the side of caution.

As I said at the time, Corbyns failures meant the next person had to overcorrect. We may have got a more nuanced position out of him (though not entirely sure what you’re after as has been stated he did call got a ceasefire), had he not had to exorcise the “Labour is antisemitic” meme the last guy created.

See also fiscal discipline. All of these are specifically tailored to counter voter perceptions of the party. This is basic electoral politics and the fact the left keeps wetting the bed over it just shows exactly the problem.

I don’t want Starmer. I want a much more radical government. But no one offering that is sane or capable. So this is what we’ve got.

When the Labour left produces something better than Pidcock, Corbyn, Burgeon, and Sultana to vote for they can start whining about the quality of the rest of the party quite frankly.
Click to expand...

You don't want Starmer but you do?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,292
fernandopartridge said:
You don't want Starmer but you do?
Click to expand...

Of course he wants him - Starmer is a classic moderate Tory
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,293
Grendel said:
Of course he wants him - Starmer is a classic moderate Tory
Click to expand...
Although it's fair to say that Pol Pot or Pinochet would have a fighting chance of seeming appealing options compared to the current government.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,294
shmmeee said:
Because the left refuses to get elected cos muh principles?
Click to expand...

There's compromise, then there's capitulation. Starmer looks likely to do the latter. I could well be wrong but time will tell.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,295
shmmeee said:
That the last bloke got battered for being antisemitic so probably best to err on the side of caution.

As I said at the time, Corbyns failures meant the next person had to overcorrect. We may have got a more nuanced position out of him (though not entirely sure what you’re after as has been stated he did call got a ceasefire), had he not had to exorcise the “Labour is antisemitic” meme the last guy created.

See also fiscal discipline. All of these are specifically tailored to counter voter perceptions of the party. This is basic electoral politics and the fact the left keeps wetting the bed over it just shows exactly the problem.

I don’t want Starmer. I want a much more radical government. But no one offering that is sane or capable. So this is what we’ve got.

When the Labour left produces something better than Pidcock, Corbyn, Burgeon, and Sultana to vote for they can start whining about the quality of the rest of the party quite frankly.
Click to expand...
This Corbyn ‘overcorrection’ nonsense is rubbish. Starmer has expelled more Jewish people from the Labour Party than every previous leader combined. Corbyn’s inability to be stand up to the smears against him allowed a narrative to be created that wasn’t accurate - and that is a big failing on his part.
It’s made easy for Starmer though because so called lefties like you, PVA and Pete will wave through any old bollocks he comes out with because it’s ’grown up pragmatism’
 
Reactions: bezzer and lifeskyblue

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,296
Ian1779 said:
This Corbyn ‘overcorrection’ nonsense is rubbish. Starmer has expelled more Jewish people from the Labour Party than every previous leader combined. Corbyn’s inability to be stand up to the smears against him allowed a narrative to be created that wasn’t accurate - and that is a big failing on his part.
It’s made easy for Starmer though because so called lefties like you, PVA and Pete will wave through any old bollocks he comes out with because it’s ’grown up pragmatism’
Click to expand...

What a really fucking weird metric for antisemitism.

“so called lefties”. Listen to yourself man. Just once ask why your chosen politicians keep failing a s answer without blaming everyone else.
 
Reactions: bezzer

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,297
clint van damme said:
There's compromise, then there's capitulation. Starmer looks likely to do the latter. I could well be wrong but time will tell.
Click to expand...

Who has been elected with the correct values in your opinion?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,298
fernandopartridge said:
You don't want Starmer but you do?
Click to expand...

Given a magical fantasy land where the electorate consists entirely of you, Ian and CvD then sure.

Given the real world where it’s Labour or Tories, I’ll choose Labour every time.

Why aren’t you angry with the left for fucking up their big change like I am? Why aren’t you frustrated at the glaring lack of talent in the SCG? Why do you keep giving these fucking awful politicians a free pass and blaming people who actually try to get elected instead of whining that everything isn’t fair?

You’re not fucking lefties. You’re in it for the aesthetic and the ability to grumpily sit at the side and say everything is shit. You have no wish for left wing politics to get into power because that might mean having to sully your oh so precious principles. Principles you never want tested in case you find they come up short outside of protest lines and academia.
 
Reactions: HuckerbyDublinWhelan

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,299
Fucking evergreen from Pratchett PBUH

 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,300
shmmeee said:
Given a magical fantasy land where the electorate consists entirely of you, Ian and CvD then sure.

Given the real world where it’s Labour or Tories, I’ll choose Labour every time.

Why aren’t you angry with the left for fucking up their big change like I am? Why aren’t you frustrated at the glaring lack of talent in the SCG? Why do you keep giving these fucking awful politicians a free pass and blaming people who actually try to get elected instead of whining that everything isn’t fair?

You’re not fucking lefties. You’re in it for the aesthetic and the ability to grumpily sit at the side and say everything is shit. You have no wish for left wing politics to get into power because that might mean having to sully your oh so precious principles. Principles you never want tested in case you find they come up short outside of protest lines and academia.
Click to expand...


 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,301
shmmeee said:
Who has been elected with the correct values in your opinion?
Click to expand...
It's not about values it's about policies.
Every thing Starmer has said that I can get on board with he's subsequently reneged on.

Not some things, which is why I referred to compromise, but everything.

I just can't get on board with this 'but he's only saying that, wait until he gets elected' shtick.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,302
shmmeee said:
What a really fucking weird metric for antisemitism.

“so called lefties”. Listen to yourself man. Just once ask why your chosen politicians keep failing a s answer without blaming everyone else.
Click to expand...

To be fair, as is the norm in these types of debates on here, the first person to mention Corbyn is you.

Personally I'd be delighted if he was never mentioned again.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,303
shmmeee said:
Given a magical fantasy land where the electorate consists entirely of you, Ian and CvD then sure.

Given the real world where it’s Labour or Tories, I’ll choose Labour every time.

Why aren’t you angry with the left for fucking up their big change like I am? Why aren’t you frustrated at the glaring lack of talent in the SCG? Why do you keep giving these fucking awful politicians a free pass and blaming people who actually try to get elected instead of whining that everything isn’t fair?

You’re not fucking lefties. You’re in it for the aesthetic and the ability to grumpily sit at the side and say everything is shit. You have no wish for left wing politics to get into power because that might mean having to sully your oh so precious principles. Principles you never want tested in case you find they come up short outside of protest lines and academia.
Click to expand...

More bollocks, I've consistently said Corbyn fucked up.
At the start of Starmers tenure I said I'd give him a chance.
I said I really liked the 10 pledges and since then he's consistently u turned and back tracked until I see someone who isn't going to bring about meaningful change.

You and several others really are in anyone but the tories territory but we need something far far better than that.

If it does turn out to be Starmer I'll hold my hands up, admit I was wrong and vote for him next time round, but not at the minute, not a chance.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,304
shmmeee said:
What a really fucking weird metric for antisemitism.

“so called lefties”. Listen to yourself man. Just once ask why your chosen politicians keep failing a s answer without blaming everyone else.
Click to expand...
Metric for antisemitism? What does that even mean?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2023
  • #32,305
Another low for this government. Dragging the country’s reputation further into the gutter purely to make Labour clean it up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67612152
 
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 921
  • 922
  • 923
  • 924
  • 925
  • …
  • 1507
Next
First Prev 923 of 1507 Next Last
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • MartyA moment ago
  • Ian17799 minutes ago
  • SBT9 minutes ago
  • chiefdave15 minutes ago
Total: 107 (members: 4, guests: 103)
Share:
Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email
  • Home
  • Forums
  • General Discussion
  • Off Topic Chat
  • Default Style
  • Contact us
  • Terms and rules
  • Privacy policy
  • Help
  • Home
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2021 XenForo Ltd.
Menu
Log in

Register

  • Home
  • Forums
    • New posts
    • Search forums
  • What's new
    • New posts
    • Latest activity
  • Members
    • Current visitors
  • Donate to the Season Ticket Fund
X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?