Double decker crash (3 Viewers)

Otis · Oct 4, 2015

Jack Griffin said:
Walked past the scene earlier, it is pretty obvious from the road layout and the place where the bus hit the canopy that the driver had started his turn. It is not as if he had sailed straight on. There are lots of Taxi's in a rank on the right hand side of the road where he came from, did the bus hit some of them? On the left there are lots of road works, the part of Hales St connecting to Fairfax St is completely closed & fenced off, as far as I've heard none of the works fences were hit.

I just walked past it.

Hard to ascertain what happened. The crossing isn't involved.

I wonder if his brakes failed. Seems he hit a number of cars before careering into Sainsbury's.

SimonGilbert · Oct 4, 2015

Houchens Head said:
Sky News just been in conversation with our own Simon Gilbert.

Horrible thing to have to cover last night. Something that will stay with me for a very long time. Found it extremely difficult to get to sleep afterwards.

Puts an awful lot of things into perspective. I gave my wife a very big hug when I got home!

rob9872 · Oct 4, 2015

Regardless of whether City fans or not, I think the club need to put out a message of condolence on the official site. Bit of an own goal if they don't after the recent good things they've done and don't want anything to detract from the football side of things. If anyone has a contact that can get something out there it would be worth an email.

I_Saw_Shaw_Score · Oct 4, 2015

rob9872 said:
Regardless of whether City fans or not, I think the club need to put out a message of condolence on the official site. Bit of an own goal if they don't after the recent good things they've done and don't want anything to detract from the football side of things. If anyone has a contact that can get something out there it would be worth an email.

They put a tweet out but I agree.

Minutes silence before the Blackpool game maybe?

Sympathies & thoughts with all those involved.

Johnnythespider · Oct 4, 2015

It was all over social media very early that there had been 2 or 3 deaths even stating that the fatalities involved were an old lady and 2 kids, as we now know this was quite accurate information and was the information I posted in post 4 or 5 of this thread, the news stations were very slow to change their headlines to reflect this as it was confirmed by the police that 2 people had died at the scene around 9pm. Simon Gilbert was interviewed on BBC news and related that there had been confirmed deaths and yet they still persisted with the story that there had been only injuries. So I think the telegraph merely reacted quicker to this news than the national stations, can't really blame them for that. It is now being said that the driver was sounding his horn as he came down Hales street, suggesting some sort of mechanical failure.
Condolences to the bereaved families.

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Some saying this morning that the bus was travelling as fast as 60mph.

If true, most certainly would point to mechanical failure you would have thought.

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Sky Blue Pete · Oct 5, 2015

Taxi driver though so unlikely to be a good judge of speed or road traffic awareness

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Oct 5, 2015

"Bus that killed boy of eight after it crashed into Sainsbury's was driven by 77-year-old former mayor as witnesses claim vehicle was travelling at up to 60mph"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-vehicle-travelling-60mph.html#ixzz3ngFxIOYE
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Some witnesses claimed the bus was travelling at up to 60mph at the moment of impact, while others claimed it had just pulled out of a bus stop and was travelling at around 15mph.
Some claim to have heard the driver desperately sounding his horn to warn pedestrians.

From experience, I would go along with the second quote of travelling at 15mph (maybe a little faster).

1. The bus was just departing from the bus stop outside the transport museum. Even my car would struggle to get to 60m.p.h. in that short space.
2. These buses struggle to get to 50m.p.h. on a dual carriage-way.

I've also had experience of driving on a snowy road high in the alps, even 5m.p.h feels fast when then the vehicle is sliding around with no visibility due to falling snow, just a couple of feet from an 100ft drop.

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Does seem odd for sure.

Do we know the bus stopped at the motor museum? Might it not have just driven past?

Still think 60 mph sounds exaggerated though.

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Deleted member 5849 · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Still think 60 mph sounds exaggerated though.

Not sure it's physically possible around there!

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Only if his brakes failed some distance back from the incident.

Grendel · Oct 5, 2015

I'm surprised a 77 year old is still registered to drive a public service bus.

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Does seem odd for sure.

Do we know the bus stopped at the motor museum? Might it not have just driven past?

Still think 60 mph sounds exaggerated though.

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from reports:

It is thought the bus involved had dropped off some passengers at a stop adjacent to Coventry Transport Museum – yards from Sainsbury’s – just before the crash.

A taxi driver, who was waiting in the rank but asked not to be named, said the bus had pulled in behind another bus at the stop, but clipped the first vehicle as it departed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-vehicle-travelling-60mph.html#ixzz3ngUl1Emw
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

This bus service terminus is the stop outside the museum.
There are 2 stops outside the museum.
The stop nearest Sainsbury's (out side the museum on Hales street) is for National Express Coventry services, the stagecoach service departs behind this - hence the taxi driver reporting clipping another bus, this would 'I asume' be a bus waiting in front.

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Oct 5, 2015

Grendel said:
I'm surprised a 77 year old is still registered to drive a public service bus.

Professional drivers HGV (Heavy Goods Vehicles) & PSV (Passenger Service Vehicles) loose your licence at the age of between 40 & 45, depends on the timing of your licence (car is 70).
At these ages you have to pass a medical to regain your licence, then you are required a medical every 5 years.
At the age of 65 you have to pass the medical every year.

These medicals are very strict, I have known drivers loose there professional licence at the age of 40, usually through diabetes.

Most drivers do look forward to retirement, but at my garage we had 2 drivers who were trying to compete who could go the longest one was 69 the other 72. There excuse usually was they need the money.
Most drivers when they reach 60 usually get put on lighter duties, less stressful runs.
Sometimes just school runs, but from my experience the secondary school runs are usually the most stressful.

skybluesam66 · Oct 5, 2015

77 though - I would say that my reactions are as good after 5 pints, as an average 77 year old

Sorry -too old to be driving such a vehicle

That said - under the governments legislation, you cant force anybody to retire now, so if they pass the medical, there is nothing the bus company can do

so the government have surely had a hand in this

lewys33 · Oct 5, 2015

People would be surprised to see what cars/buses record in a crash situation. People always over estimate speed in a crash as well. The part of the store roof that has gone though the top deck would not need a lot of speed to go through the bus like that, so 60mph is probably a bit of an over estimation.

RIP to the 2 dead, and my thoughts go out to family and friends. I hope the little girl pulls through.

Johnnythespider · Oct 5, 2015

On a news report yesterday the reporter showed a lampost with paint marks on it that some witnesses say the bus hit. This was some distance before the transport museum and on the other side of the road, I would add that these marks were on the pavement side of the post and tie in with comments that tne bus then crossed the grassed area opposite the transport museum. Looking at the way the bus has gone straight intp sainsbury's I can't see how that would happen if it had just left a stop outside the museum.

Covstu · Oct 5, 2015

Somethings not right about this but i doubt the bus could even reach 60mph.

On a related matter, i see the bin driver in Glasgow was caught driving after being banned. What is wrong with people!

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Oct 5, 2015

skybluesam66 said:
77 though - I would say that my reactions are as good after 5 pints, as an average 77 year old

Sorry -too old to be driving such a vehicle

That said - under the governments legislation, you cant force anybody to retire now, so if they pass the medical, there is nothing the bus company can do

so the government have surely had a hand in this

This Euro law not just UK law.
I'm 43 and need a medical to renew my licence.

I was driving coaches here in Spain, my boss was Morrocan, it was a new company. I had to explain to him driving regs are European as all he was complaining about was red tape the Spanish authorities put in front of him. He thought 'he could pull the wool over my eyes' as I was English and wouldn't understand the Spanish regs, so therefore I could drive illegally and plead ignorance.
Number of hours we can drive, number of days a week we can work, number of hours we must rest between shifts.

Some of these older driver come from a time when there were no regs, older drivers tales of doing over 150 hours per week.
Driving down the unrestricted M1 to London at well over 100mph. Coaches then designed and built for the new motorway.
However these regs were introduced when the speed limit was applied at 70 for motorways and have been amended on occasions ever since.

All professional European drivers also now have to pass a CPC course (assessment of your work at work) to continue driving, pretty much a driving test review. This has to be taken every 5 years and was introduced in 2009.

I agree 77 is too old to be in this position.

How many others can you carry on until 80?
Sepp Blatter, Geoffrey Robinson.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 5, 2015

Sumo the Micky Quinn said:
I agree 77 is too old to be in this position.

tbf although it surprises me, I suppose if he's had a medical he's arguably passed as safer on the roads than me, who passed his driving test over 20 years ago, and hasn't had another test since.

Captain Dart · Oct 5, 2015

Carrying on at 77 in a job like that requiring good decent reaction times is tantamount to a criminal act, the drivers attitude to other people sucks, he should have retired 4 or 5 years ago. The law must be changed a medical isn't adequate protection for the public.

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Oct 5, 2015

One thing I have noticed is Stagecoach say he was on the 17:33 departure time from Coventry Stop DD, Hales Street outside the transport museum.

Accident happened at 17:57 according to an eye witness.

I believe there was an accident on the A46 earlier on in the day diverting a lot of traffic through Warwick, I heard this listening to BBC Cov & War on line before the match.

Because bus schedules are tight it is possible this bus was still playing catch up with his timetable.
As a driver you do feel under pressure to get the bus back on time, especially from passengers who constantly inform you how late you are, how long they have been waiting in the cold or rain.

On shorter routes we were able to miss a service. Example if you were running a 1/2 hour service and running 1/2 hour late you cut out a service to get back on schedule. However this route is not as easy as it travels down to Stratford in a loop all day.
This driver would not have been driving this route all day - down to regs. He may have taken over the bus at Stratford or Leamington on the way into Cov.

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Oct 5, 2015

Captain Dart said:
Carrying on at 77 in a job like that requiring good decent reaction times is tantamount to a criminal act, the drivers attitude to other people sucks, he should have retired 4 or 5 years ago. The law must be changed a medical isn't adequate protection for the public.

The law also allows people who fail their medical at 40 and loose their professional licence to keep their car licence until their next medical at 70.
However the doctor can request if your medical is so bad he can recommend not renewing your car licence - but this is most unusual.

So should every body also loose their car licence at 70?
I have come across many over 70 who make you wonder, also I have come across many much younger.

Free bus passes are issued to encourage the elderly to give up their car.

But unfortunately some people are to proud to admit they may not be fit to drive.

However the two older drivers I mentioned earlier, seemed perfectly fit to drive.

Nick · Oct 5, 2015

While I am not saying this is the case and might be off topic, I could easily have 3 or 4 pints and still react quicker than some older people who still drive. Yes they might not be speeding, but their hesitation / slow reactions can be just as dangerous.

Captain Dart · Oct 5, 2015

Sumo the Micky Quinn said:
So should every body also loose their car licence at 70?

I think there are a lot of older drivers who carry on past their sell by dates, it is an increasing problem, they are too proud/stupid/selfish to admit they should no longer be driving.

There is a ITV series about it, I think it is still being broadcast ..
https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/100-y...s-2/episode-1-100-year-old-drivers-ride-again

Something needs to be done, I've seen drivers like this who look around for oncoming traffic in a most alarming manner (ie you can see they are too slow).

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Johnnythespider said:
On a news report yesterday the reporter showed a lampost with paint marks on it that some witnesses say the bus hit. This was some distance before the transport museum and on the other side of the road, I would add that these marks were on the pavement side of the post and tie in with comments that tne bus then crossed the grassed area opposite the transport museum. Looking at the way the bus has gone straight intp sainsbury's I can't see how that would happen if it had just left a stop outside the museum.

Yeah, that just doesn't sound right. Can't see how he would be even up to 10mph, let alone 15 mph at that short distance.

Saw the scene yesterday. Can't see if he was going slowly how he could have ended up crashing into Sainsbury's wall.

Guess we will have to wait a while longer to find out what happened.

Doesn't make it any less tragic.

Houchens Head · Oct 5, 2015

I was a West Midlands Travel bus driver for nearly 10 years in the 1980's and when we had a "private hire", which required us to drive out to places like Alton Towers etc, the double deck Metro buses could barely reach 50mph even on motorways! Single deckers fared a bit better, reaching 60-65mph at times! So for the report to say this vehicle was doing at least 60mph is a joke!

lewys33 · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Saw the scene yesterday. Can't see if he was going slowly how he could have ended up crashing into Sainsbury's wall.

I could geek this for you, but I won't go too crazy. Basically because the roof/canopy that comes out of Sainsbury's will only come in to contact with a small part of the bus it won't cause the bus to actually slow down much at all. That and the fact the bus is quite a large mass so to stop it would take a lot more force. So it would be quite easy to reach the actual building without a lot of speed.

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

lewys33 said:
I could geek this for you, but I won't go too crazy. Basically because the roof/canopy that comes out of Sainsbury's will only come in to contact with a small part of the bus it won't cause the bus to actually slow down much at all. That and the fact the bus is quite a large mass so to stop it would take a lot more force. So it would be quite easy to reach the actual building without a lot of speed.

Yeah, get that, but there are reports of the driver sounding his horn. Just think if was going that slowly it would have been quite easy for him to not lose control of the bus.

lewys33 · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Yeah, get that, but there are reports of the driver sounding his horn. Just think if was going that slowly it would have been quite easy for him to not lose control of the bus.

It's whether people were actually telling the truth or not I guess. It's all very up in the air at the moment.

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Yeah, get that, but there are reports of the driver sounding his horn. Just think if was going that slowly it would have been quite easy for him to not lose control of the bus.

Also Chinese Whispers coming into play too.

That was a nasty accident on the Holyhead Rd last week and all my daughter's friends were talking about it on social media.

Then one girl said it was confirmed 2 people had died. My daughter said 'are you sure?' And one girl said yes and then it was confirmed by a number of others too.

So I quickly looked on the CT site and it said no-one had been seriously hurt.

lewys33 · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Also Chinese Whispers coming into play too.

That was a nasty accident on the Holyhead Rd last week and all my daughter's friends were talking about it on social media.

Then one girl said it was confirmed 2 people had died. My daughter said 'are you sure?' And one girl said yes and then it was confirmed by a number of others too.

So I quickly looked on the CT site and it said no-one had been seriously hurt.

Yh unfortunately it happens all the time.

The speculation is that a bus pulled out on him, and he swerved to avoid it.

It's a possibility that he just hasn't hit the brakes. Whether he has gone for the brakes and hit the accelerator instead is a different matter.

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Yep, well that would explain it. A sudden burst of acceleration.

Lots of rumours at the mo.

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Yeah, that just doesn't sound right. Can't see how he would be even up to 10mph, let alone 15 mph at that short distance.

I remember on my bus driving lessons, I was doing a practice test. I was told to accelerate harder when pulling away from a bus stop, and get the bus speed to speed of the road (30mph in this case) as quickly as possible. 'If I had carried on dawdling' other car drivers would quickly catch me up and get frustrated and that would be a fail on the test.
Same thing happened on speed bumps, you need to get to 'road speed' as soon as possible but also slowly enough over the bumps to not make the journey uncomfortable.

Coventry City Centre or any town centre the speed of the road is much slower. As you have to be aware of other buses pulling out in front of you, people crossing the road between packed vehicles.

Unfortunately we will never know what actually happened, as this information will not be made public. - unless the driver/company is found to be responsable and then goes to court.

Just hope the girl makes a full recovery.

Nick · Oct 5, 2015

Surely there will be loads of CCTV anyway?

Double decker crash (3 Viewers)

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