Doug got it right (50 Viewers)

Mucca Mad Boys · Sunday at 8:28 PM

clint van damme said:
I agree the results are the bottom line, but it was the fall out not the results, Kings words not mine.

As for why people think he talks bullshit, he does!

Some key details omitted there. The fall out with AV was the beginning because King felt Robins could get ‘exposed’ as a manager without top coaches around him. The coaching staff not being up to scratch and the results turning made his position untenable.

What’s been bullshit exactly? Genuinely curious here. The way I see things, a lot of negative viewpoints on him have come from ITKs on this forum and people like Dawkins on X. Frankly, some of the ITK insights have been biased on this topic and sometimes contradictory.

robbiekeane · Sunday at 8:30 PM

Ashdown said:
I’m not getting carried away with all this. We’ve had some very favourable results recently but we still look incredibly fragile and have rode our luck. The passing out from the back nonsense is a nightmare waiting to happen and we still have some awful players in the first team.
We have been propped up by a goalkeeper who has grown in confidence and a striker who on his day looks good at this level.
We are nowhere near the team that got to the play off final under MR.
Lets hope Lampard can emulate that but he will need better players in defence to achieve that.

lol “we have been propped up my players in our team being good”

Diogenes · Sunday at 8:34 PM

Ultimately, King realised what can be, unburdened by what has been.

Mucca Mad Boys · Sunday at 8:35 PM

Diogenes said:
Ultimately, King realised what can be, unburdened by what has been.

Rate the reference…

higgs · Sunday at 8:56 PM

Boateng and Carr turned out to be poor appointments if Robins picked them and not king

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

StrettoBoy · Sunday at 9:16 PM

Robins is a genuine legend at our club and I wanted him to be given more time to turn things around because I didn’t think that he had suddenly become a bad manager overnight.

The axe then fell and Lampard was appointed. I had no particular opinion as to whether he would be good for us or not. I did however think that it was ridiculous that many fans condemned him even before we had kicked a ball under his leadership. I merely asked that he be given a decent period of time to prove himself one way or the other.

Football is a results business and on that basis Lampard has proven to be an excellent appointment and for that we must give credit to King.

MalcSB · Sunday at 10:15 PM

JSL said:
You dont get to be successful in business and make shit decisions. Give him some credit and lets move on with believing we are back on track

We have played 33 league games.
Lampard has been in charge for 16 league games from which we have won 30 points. 1.875 points per game
Robins was in charge for 17 league games, accruing 17 points or 1.0 per game.

If we had been gaining points at Lampard’s rate all season, we would have 62 points and would be in a playoff place (5th) and be 15 points ahead of current 7th (Coventry City - weird I know, but thats where mulling things over sometimes takes you) or more likely 14 points above WBA.

Gaining points at Robins rate would put us on 33 points, and 21st in the table. 4 points clear of the relegation zone, with the 2 teams between us and the relegation zone each having a game in hand. Sounds like a relegation battle to me.

We certainly seem to be back on track, however credit requested needs to bear in mind that King should have acted sooner and quicker. It was obvious that it was going downhill at least 6 weeks before he acted and even then the recruitment process seems pretty slow.

I haven’t considered the Cup matches because you get no points for them and a different hand from the deck tends to be played in those matches. TBH I don’t think that they would make much difference. If we don’t make the playoffs this year, on current outcomes it would be down to results under Robins, not Lampard.

Perhaps there should be some sort of bonus for away wins at Swansea and Preston. That’s two hoodoos broken in a week!

it was time for a change. Doesn’t really affect Robins status as a legend, what will do is when Lampard coaches us to the Premier League, and/ or wins the FA Cup (preferably in that order).

clint van damme · Monday at 6:15 AM

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Some key details omitted there. The fall out with AV was the beginning because King felt Robins could get ‘exposed’ as a manager without top coaches around him. The coaching staff not being up to scratch and the results turning made his position untenable.

What’s been bullshit exactly? Genuinely curious here. The way I see things, a lot of negative viewpoints on him have come from ITKs on this forum and people like Dawkins on X. Frankly, some of the ITK insights have been biased on this topic and sometimes contradictory.

I've been through the things I believe Kings lied about many times, I can't be arsed going through them again.
But football club owner tells lies isn't some Watergate style earth shattering revelation.

But as I've said many times, bottom line, Viveash and Robins falling out was the root cause of the end of the Robins era, I don't doubt that.

Deity · Monday at 6:38 AM

clint van damme said:
I've been through the things I believe Kings lied about many times, I can't be arsed going through them again.
But football club owner tells lies isn't some Watergate style earth shattering revelation.

But as I've said many times, bottom line, Viveash and Robins falling out was the root cause of the end of the Robins era, I don't doubt that.

In other words …. You can’t think of anything material.

clint van damme · Monday at 7:17 AM

Deity said:
In other words …. You can’t think of anything material.

That's unusual, Deity jumping straight on a post about King!!
And no, that's not what it means,it means I can't be arsed getting in to it.

You know what the issues I've had with King are, you usually respond to them in seconds!

Balli001 · Monday at 7:24 AM

Ashdown said:
I’m not getting carried away with all this. We’ve had some very favourable results recently but we still look incredibly fragile and have rode our luck. The passing out from the back nonsense is a nightmare waiting to happen and we still have some awful players in the first team.
We have been propped up by a goalkeeper who has grown in confidence and a striker who on his day looks good at this level.
We are nowhere near the team that got to the play off final under MR.
Lets hope Lampard can emulate that but he will need better players in defence to achieve that.

No you are right. We dont have Dabo, Maguire, Panzo, Wilson-Esbrand.... should i go on. If we did indeed get lucky it was 2023. Carried by Hamer and Gyokeres. We had 5 loan players in defence that season. No team in the championship wins 6 out of 7 and is lucky.

Kingokings204 · Monday at 7:54 AM

MalcSB said:
We have played 33 league games.
Lampard has been in charge for 16 league games from which we have won 30 points. 1.875 points per game
Robins was in charge for 17 league games, accruing 17 points or 1.0 per game.

If we had been gaining points at Lampard’s rate all season, we would have 62 points and would be in a playoff place (5th) and be 15 points ahead of current 7th (Coventry City - weird I know, but thats where mulling things over sometimes takes you) or more likely 14 points above WBA.

Gaining points at Robins rate would put us on 33 points, and 21st in the table. 4 points clear of the relegation zone, with the 2 teams between us and the relegation zone each having a game in hand. Sounds like a relegation battle to me.

We certainly seem to be back on track, however credit requested needs to bear in mind that King should have acted sooner and quicker. It was obvious that it was going downhill at least 6 weeks before he acted and even then the recruitment process seems pretty slow.

I haven’t considered the Cup matches because you get no points for them and a different hand from the deck tends to be played in those matches. TBH I don’t think that they would make much difference. If we don’t make the playoffs this year, on current outcomes it would be down to results under Robins, not Lampard.

Perhaps there should be some sort of bonus for away wins at Swansea and Preston. That’s two hoodoos broken in a week!

it was time for a change. Doesn’t really affect Robins status as a legend, what will do is when Lampard coaches us to the Premier League, and/ or wins the FA Cup (preferably in that order).

Cracking post. Perfectly clears explains where we are at. Now seasons do go through cycles so would Lampard have got 1.87points all season and robins 1 point a game all season we will never know. Robins could have easily turned it around and Lampard might still yet have a bad end to the season. Such is football a lot of unknowns but in general robins had run his course. The band of Lawrence vivesh and robins were split up and that was the beginning of the end. Who wasn’t shocked on first day of pre season and Carr and Boeteng had come in? And it seems given kings timelines and forum it was around early to mid October robins realized and wanted an assistant (we know it was Chris Ramsey ) king then vetoed this and was then simply waiting for the right moment to get rid. We can all argue over the semantics about how and why it happened like why did vivesh really go? Does it matter now?

End of the day we are here now and to be 7th in mid Feb is just incredible and gives us a real shot of playoffs and something to play for. We have no fa cup either which simply was the only reason we didn’t make it last season. As good as it was it came at a price.

We have 13 games left and I reckon 70 points gets a spot so we need 23 points. If you offered me 8 wins and 5 losses now I reckon that would do it. And we have our best 2 players to come back. We will be in and around but we shouldn’t be disappointed if we don’t make it. It’s been an incredible run. We can’t go down which would have been an absolute disaster for us. And we have a whole summer to sort this defence out mainly. Ultimately King was right. 100%.

Potbellypig · Monday at 7:57 AM

clint van damme said:
I've been through the things I believe Kings lied about many times, I can't be arsed going through them again.
But football club owner tells lies isn't some Watergate style earth shattering revelation.

But as I've said many times, bottom line, Viveash and Robins falling out was the root cause of the end of the Robins era, I don't doubt that.

If you add the word FACT! after then it makes it more believable.

itsabuzzard · Monday at 8:13 AM

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Rate the reference…

Shame it didn't quite get her over the line, and here we are...God help us all, and I say that as an agnostic.

shmmeee · Monday at 9:21 AM

MalcSB said:
We have played 33 league games.
Lampard has been in charge for 16 league games from which we have won 30 points. 1.875 points per game
Robins was in charge for 17 league games, accruing 17 points or 1.0 per game.

If we had been gaining points at Lampard’s rate all season, we would have 62 points and would be in a playoff place (5th) and be 15 points ahead of current 7th (Coventry City - weird I know, but thats where mulling things over sometimes takes you) or more likely 14 points above WBA.

Gaining points at Robins rate would put us on 33 points, and 21st in the table. 4 points clear of the relegation zone, with the 2 teams between us and the relegation zone each having a game in hand. Sounds like a relegation battle to me.

We certainly seem to be back on track, however credit requested needs to bear in mind that King should have acted sooner and quicker. It was obvious that it was going downhill at least 6 weeks before he acted and even then the recruitment process seems pretty slow.

I haven’t considered the Cup matches because you get no points for them and a different hand from the deck tends to be played in those matches. TBH I don’t think that they would make much difference. If we don’t make the playoffs this year, on current outcomes it would be down to results under Robins, not Lampard.

Perhaps there should be some sort of bonus for away wins at Swansea and Preston. That’s two hoodoos broken in a week!

it was time for a change. Doesn’t really affect Robins status as a legend, what will do is when Lampard coaches us to the Premier League, and/ or wins the FA Cup (preferably in that order).

You’ve added Carrs games to Robins’. He was sacked after 14 games.

MalcSB · Monday at 9:30 AM

Kingokings204 said:
Cracking post. Perfectly clears explains where we are at. Now seasons do go through cycles so would Lampard have got 1.87points all season and robins 1 point a game all season we will never know. Robins could have easily turned it around and Lampard might still yet have a bad end to the season. Such is football a lot of unknowns but in general robins had run his course. The band of Lawrence vivesh and robins were split up and that was the beginning of the end. Who wasn’t shocked on first day of pre season and Carr and Boeteng had come in? And it seems given kings timelines and forum it was around early to mid October robins realized and wanted an assistant (we know it was Chris Ramsey ) king then vetoed this and was then simply waiting for the right moment to get rid. We can all argue over the semantics about how and why it happened like why did vivesh really go? Does it matter now?

End of the day we are here now and to be 7th in mid Feb is just incredible and gives us a real shot of playoffs and something to play for. We have no fa cup either which simply was the only reason we didn’t make it last season. As good as it was it came at a price.

We have 13 games left and I reckon 70 points gets a spot so we need 23 points. If you offered me 8 wins and 5 losses now I reckon that would do it. And we have our best 2 players to come back. We will be in and around but we shouldn’t be disappointed if we don’t make it. It’s been an incredible run. We can’t go down which would have been an absolute disaster for us. And we have a whole summer to sort this defence out mainly. Ultimately King was right. 100%. Have turned it around, although there was little ev

I agree with most of this post, but have highlighted a couple of sentences to comment on.

That’s why I used the word IF

If Robins could easily have turned it round, why didn’t he? It would be more accurate to have said he might have turned it around, despite any evidence to support that statement. If results under Lampard deteriorate then the rest of that sentence would need to be re- evaluated.

I completely agree with your views on the FA Cup’s impact on last season. Personally I’m glad we are out of it, would have preferred it to have been without conceding 4 goals but it was never going to be easy once it had been agreed to play Leeds earlier in the week.

MalcSB · Monday at 9:32 AM

shmmeee said:
You’ve added Carrs games to Robins’. He was sacked after 14 games.

Well spotted.

Have you recalculated it?

shmmeee · Monday at 9:33 AM

MalcSB said:
Well spotted.

Have you recalculated it?

No I’ve got to actually do some work sometimes.

skybluelee · Monday at 9:36 AM

RoboCCFC90 said:
Proof will ultimately be in the pudding, if we get promoted via the playoffs then Doug got it right.

Lampard and his team have done very well so far, it’s promising with so many players now coming back into the fold and two players signed since they took over it’s going to be an exciting run in.

If we get to the play-offs and DON'T get promoted then Doug got it right IMO.

skybluelee · Monday at 9:41 AM

MalcSB said:
Well spotted.

Have you recalculated it?

Robins 15 from 14
Carr 2 from 3
Lampard 30 from 16

Deity · Monday at 9:54 AM

MalcSB said:
We have played 33 league games.
Lampard has been in charge for 16 league games from which we have won 30 points. 1.875 points per game
Robins was in charge for 17 league games, accruing 17 points or 1.0 per game.

If we had been gaining points at Lampard’s rate all season, we would have 62 points and would be in a playoff place (5th) and be 15 points ahead of current 7th (Coventry City - weird I know, but thats where mulling things over sometimes takes you) or more likely 14 points above WBA.

Gaining points at Robins rate would put us on 33 points, and 21st in the table. 4 points clear of the relegation zone, with the 2 teams between us and the relegation zone each having a game in hand. Sounds like a relegation battle to me.

We certainly seem to be back on track, however credit requested needs to bear in mind that King should have acted sooner and quicker. It was obvious that it was going downhill at least 6 weeks before he acted and even then the recruitment process seems pretty slow.

I haven’t considered the Cup matches because you get no points for them and a different hand from the deck tends to be played in those matches. TBH I don’t think that they would make much difference. If we don’t make the playoffs this year, on current outcomes it would be down to results under Robins, not Lampard.

Perhaps there should be some sort of bonus for away wins at Swansea and Preston. That’s two hoodoos broken in a week!

it was time for a change. Doesn’t really affect Robins status as a legend, what will do is when Lampard coaches us to the Premier League, and/ or wins the FA Cup (preferably in that order).

I think most fans would have thought firing Robins 6 weeks before he did to be premature. There was a total meltdown when he did fire him.

MalcSB · Monday at 9:58 AM

skybluelee said:
Robins 15 from 14
Carr 2 from 3
Lampard 30 from 16

Well that’s 15 minutes I’ve just wasted recalculating and got the same results.

Theoretical conclusion - the Lampard PPG across season so far would still make us currently at 5th place. Robins PPG would put us at 19 or 20th (can’t estimate goal difference, somebody brighter may be able to.)

Carr‘s PPG would yield 22 points so far, bottom of the table 5 points behnd Luton.

MalcSB · Monday at 10:00 AM

Deity said:
I think most fans would have thought firing Robins 6 weeks before he did to be premature. There was a total meltdown when he did fire him.

And the meltdown would have happened whenever he had been sacked. King should just have accepted he was going to get pelters and got on with it.

Mucca Mad Boys · Monday at 10:05 AM

MalcSB said:
Well that’s 15 minutes I’ve just wasted recalculating and got the same results.

Theoretical conclusion - the Lampard PPG across season so far would still make us currently at 5th place. Robins PPG would put us at 19 or 20th (can’t estimate goal difference, somebody brighter may be able to.)

Carr‘s PPG would yield 22 points so far, bottom of the table 5 points behnd Luton.

Carr’s 3 games were against Sheff U, Burnley and Sunderland though to be fair.

Judging on our form under Lampard, had he came in a few weeks before the Xmas period, we could’ve been in a better position.

The contact time with the players from mid December to new year would’ve been limited and difficult to make an impact on both collectively (team tactics) and individually (1-2-1 coaching).

I would've still back Robins to turn it around at some point but also really happy for Lampard because a lot of people were doubting his ability as a manager.

TomRad85 · Monday at 10:05 AM

MalcSB said:
And the meltdown would have happened whenever he had been sacked. King should just have accepted he was going to get pelters and got on with it.

I'd have sacked him after Sheffield Wednesday at home. To me it was clear quite early just from listening to Robins that it was completely off.
We landed on the right decision eventually, its a bit boring to still be discussing it at this point mind, i think we are probably at about 90% that accept it was correct and the remaining 10% probably never will.

Mucca Mad Boys · Monday at 10:19 AM

MalcSB said:
And the meltdown would have happened whenever he had been sacked. King should just have accepted he was going to get pelters and got on with it.

I think he did, we sacked him after 2 impressive wins v Luton and Boro.

He stood up at the fans forum and made his case and imo, got more people open to the idea that sacking a legend was the right decision and also dispelled a lot of toxic conspiracy theories surrounding the last few months of MR’s tenure.

It was a big call and so far, it’s the right one.

Ashdown · Monday at 10:49 AM

MR was struggling to look motivated for sure. His post match interviews and excuses were getting tedious and repetitive. I do think he was suffering for a time with personal issues but that’s life.
I’m delighted with recent results if not that convinced with the style of football and hope we can soon look more solid in time.
We would have to spend big if we did get promoted because this defence would be crucified by Premiership strikers.

shmmeee · Monday at 10:50 AM

MalcSB said:
Well that’s 15 minutes I’ve just wasted recalculating and got the same results.

Theoretical conclusion - the Lampard PPG across season so far would still make us currently at 5th place. Robins PPG would put us at 19 or 20th (can’t estimate goal difference, somebody brighter may be able to.)

Carr‘s PPG would yield 22 points so far, bottom of the table 5 points behnd Luton.

Except Robins PPG over this whole time was 1.47. Which is where the argument comes. People who didn’t want him sacked assumed we’d improve like we have every season. I assume people who support Lampard also don’t believe he’ll keep his current win rate up indefinitely. All academic now anyway what’s done is done.

JSL · Monday at 10:55 AM

Carr played Collins in goal. I am amazed we got any points during his short lived tenure

mmttww · Monday at 2:34 PM

MalcSB said:
And the meltdown would have happened whenever he had been sacked. King should just have accepted he was going to get pelters and got on with it.

Dunno, for me, he spotted that this could break the relationship between owners, management and fans that had been rebuilt. I get why he felt he had to get ahead of that somehow. Whether he did it well, people will make up their own minds about.

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Monday at 2:44 PM

shmmeee said:
No I’ve got to actually do some work sometimes.

So you work for the government then as a civil servant.

M3rcian · Monday at 4:48 PM

Ashdown said:
MR was struggling to look motivated for sure. His post match interviews and excuses were getting tedious and repetitive. I do think he was suffering for a time with personal issues but that’s life.
I’m delighted with recent results if not that convinced with the style of football and hope we can soon look more solid in time.
We would have to spend big if we did get promoted because this defence would be crucified by Premiership strikers.

I dont think it's just the style of football that's changed. Player motivation was an issue, the dressing room was an issue (most noteably Palmer) and MR's ability to adjust without coaching support defintely seemed to be an issue. Stale tactics with late subs and predictable systems that got found out often.

The changes since FL came in have been quick, and most impressively, address everything from tactics and formation, to player motivation and rotation. Also, would Grimes have come if MR were still in charge? I doubt it.

Also, a big indicator of his willingness to address the importance of morale for me (with FL) is he gets close to players, and they clearly value that. I mean, did Robins ever join in with Milan celebrating with the fans? I fucking love that he's doing that (even if he's clearly a bit shy about it)!

shmmeee · Monday at 5:03 PM

Had a lovely sausage sandwich this morning. Would that have happened under Robins? I don’t think so.

Terry Gibson's perm · Monday at 5:09 PM

I preferred Carsley at the time Lampard was employed it shows how you can be wrong. Robins had gone stale and should have gone sooner, I also feel that he thought he had become untouchable.

Sky Blue Goblin · Monday at 5:14 PM

Terry Gibson's perm said:
I preferred Carsley at the time Lampard was employed it shows how you can be wrong. Robins had gone stale and should have gone sooner, I also feel that he thought he had become untouchable.

To be fair Lee would of been an interesting shout. Hard to tell if it would have worked.

Does any ITKs know anyone else in the five person shortlist? Not that I dislike Lampard as he’s clearly done very well in his early days. Just curious who we were looking at

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