EFL to end season this week - City likely to be promoted (7 Viewers)

Magwitch · May 23, 2020

Flying Fokker said:
I was just about to write. Obviously it won’t happen. I’ve been trying to work out if we’d be let in. No stadium and all that. Maybe a Championship and Championship 1.

Having no permanent ground could become an issue, that’s why it needs sorting asap.

Philosoraptor · May 23, 2020

Gibbo said:
For those slagging off the EFL and Rick Parry.

Bear in mind he is not an all powerful President, but the chairman of a committee of 70 odd all of whom have member's rights. The EFL clearly have a favoured solution - PPG. By restricting choice and delaying the decision it makes it more, not less likely that PPG will result. The later the decision, the less likely clubs will have the time to complete the season. EFL appear to have have engineered it so the choice is between their preferred one - PPG, and one which increasingly over time can not be delivered - complete the season. Ironically for those calling the EFL "amateurs" you should probably cheer every delay on.

By making it a change to the constitution applicable to future seasons, it avoids legal action about a one-off decision that breaks the rules. The idea of having bigger group in the play offs is really only applicable to this season because it is unusually close, but that cannot be factored into a constitutional change. Last year the top 6 was virtually decided by the end of February.

As League 1 is an uneven number, a tied vote is unlikely for which we can thank that scoundrel who took over Bury. Although it is not impossible (Southend abstaining?). But if there was a tie, I don't think null and void is the default, as I previously thought, I suspect it is to complete the season.

Weighted PPG is no better than PPG, it is still unfair - it depends on who your outstanding fixtures are just as much as unweighted does. For legal reasons, simplicity is good, it leaves less to be contested by lawyers.

Finally, as I have tweeted elsewhere, the size of our lead is utterly irrelevant and people should stop banging on about it. The top two are a single unit who are treated identically within the rules by being automatically promoted. It matters not who is 1st or 2nd. There is no "Promote Cov, Rotherham in the play offs" option - the issue at stake is the gap between the lower of the top 2 the club placed 3rd, not that between 1st and 3rd. Had Rotherham been say 5 ahead of 3rd, say, the case for PPG would be even stronger.

If someone has said all this above , sorry. Just had to get it out of my head.

Gibbo is correct here.

PPG is easy to explain. you need some sort of mechanism that everyone can easily work out. The problem with systems beyond PPG, and there arent many systems that arent, is that they are more difficult to explain.

Also, PPG keeps the formula of three points for a win, one for a draw. This is the bedrock which the pyramid system works off. Using more complicated rating systems, and my logic dictates at least, that the balance would change within a game, with teams being prone to draw more, due to teams taking less chances in the positional element of the game.

I dont know much about football but I have a feeling a lot of sports work on the same sort of principles.

PPG keeps the attacking element going in each game up to when a division would needs to stop for whatever reason. This is the big plus, I reckon, for using it.

Philosoraptor · May 23, 2020

On the other hand though, 3 points for a win and one for a draw (PPG) doesnt mean much if you cant complete all the games in a season because the average strength of opponents played in a season will differ a lot between teams.

To me, this kind of scoring only works if the season is completed.

Its all swings and roundabouts.

Gibbo · May 23, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
There is nothing unfair about ppg, it is based on fact and applied consistently.

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk

Makes no valuation of the quality of the opponents still to play - some have to play fewer top clubs than others

TTG · May 23, 2020

Could somebody make a ppg table from this point last season? It would be interesting to see how much difference there could be!

Ring Of Steel · May 23, 2020

Oxford confirmed they are voting to play on

Oxford United set to spring major EFL vote surprise

nobody knows for sure but I have a nasty feeling this may be a lot closer than anyone thinks. What are we at now- 6 definitely voting to play on, 6 definitely voting to end? I don’t see why so many people are saying it’s a done deal (obviously I hope it is )

chiefdave · May 23, 2020

Presumably if the vote is to play on then there will be another vote in a few weeks when we're no closer to restarting. Its not like voting to play is going to magically resolve the issues around restarting the league.

They haven't even got a date to restart the Premier League, and two new positives tests have been announced this evening.

Sick Boy · May 24, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Oxford confirmed they are voting to play on

Oxford United set to spring major EFL vote surprise

nobody knows for sure but I have a nasty feeling this may be a lot closer than anyone thinks. What are we at now- 6 definitely voting to play on, 6 definitely voting to end? I don’t see why so many people are saying it’s a done deal (obviously I hope it is )

I wouldn’t be surprised if the vote is to carry on, after all the time that has gone by I’d be nervous now.

Magwitch · May 24, 2020

Easy to vote on something you know isn’t or can’t happen, Classic “don’t blame us” syndrome

Flying Fokker · May 24, 2020

TTG said:
Could somebody make a ppg table from this point last season? It would be interesting to see how much difference there could be!

2018-2019 League One Table

fernandopartridge · May 24, 2020

Gibbo said:
Makes no valuation of the quality of the opponents still to play - some have to play fewer top clubs than others

That is not fact it is conjecture

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Sky Blue Pete · May 24, 2020

And still won’t mean the league finishes. What’s the solution?

Philosoraptor · May 24, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
That is not fact it is conjecture

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk

I would agree with this.

But it also makes no valution of the average quality of opponents already played by each team which will raise or lower an individual teams PPG. PPG award teams who have a fixture list that is accidentally weighted towards playing other teams at the lower end of the table more, earlier on in a season.

The luck of the fixture draw could have a significant impact on PPG if the season finishes earlier, instead of relying solely on performance with the results teams have in games.

Peter Billing Eyes · May 24, 2020

As far as I see it, the longer it goes on, the less likely there is that we will see a return to football. Footballers’ contracts will expire and club funds will be dissolving each day impacting their ability to pay staff or mount any legals. The owners that have been vocal should soften with time otherwise there is a genuine chance that a good percentage of teams will fold. Also, for me, any votes should be based on the entire EFL as essentially the divisions are just different gears within the same transmission.

Legia Sky Blue · May 24, 2020

Trying to work out a solution covering the supposed strength of teams you have to play is fraught with problems, and no such solution would be able to factor in enough variables to provide a reliable outcome, particularly given results are often contrary to expectation towards the end of a season. A further example of this is that before this season we generally came unstuck against teams in the bottom half, but did well against teams in the top half, so how do you factor in that scenario? Even in this season of seasons we failed to beat Bolton's under 11's! Relying on simple PPG average based on what has actually happened, is a fairer means than theorising an outcome for what hasn't actually happened yet. There is no point making it any more complicated than needs be.

Magwitch · May 24, 2020

Keep saying what happens all depends on what the Premiership do, but the bottom line though is whatever happens we get promotion what happens with the play-offs and relegation could be a different matter.

better days · May 24, 2020

I suspect the number one factor for most L1 L1 clubs is the furlough scheme
If they vote to resume playing the squad will have to return to training and all players and coaching staff come of furlough
If 30 players and staff come back this will result in the loss of £75,000 per month is government support
The scheme runs to the end of August so will take us through to July when normal pre season usually starts

Frostie · May 24, 2020

Anyone see MacAnthony's latest Twitter rants?
Essentially saying other clubs (and renowned Football Finance guy Kieran Maguire) are exaggerating & true cost to resume is circa £250k

shepardo01 · May 24, 2020

Frostie said:
Anyone see MacAnthony's latest Twitter rants?
Essentially saying other clubs (and renowned Football Finance guy Kieran Maguire) are exaggerating & true cost to resume is circa £250k

Yeah, saw that.
Add 50k rent per game for St Andrews and (I think) you are hitting the reported 500k mark....

Lord_Nampil · May 24, 2020

Vote now expected on the 8th June...... that seems massively late......

clint van damme · May 24, 2020

better days said:
I suspect the number one factor for most L1 L1 clubs is the furlough scheme
If they vote to resume playing the squad will have to return to training and all players and coaching staff come of furlough
If 30 players and staff come back this will result in the loss of £75,000 per month is government support
The scheme runs to the end of August so will take us through to July when normal pre season usually starts

can you clear up who will pay for testing if play resumes Better days?

tisza · May 24, 2020

Frostie said:
Anyone see MacAnthony's latest Twitter rants?
Essentially saying other clubs (and renowned Football Finance guy Kieran Maguire) are exaggerating & true cost to resume is circa £250k

This PPE figure seems to be shrinking by the day with him.
He's deliberately missing the point. Clubs with financial issues or nothing to play for don't want to be extending players contracts past June 30th. Would seem some teams bitching about this type of teams putting out very weak sides in July to save money. So distorting the integrity of the competition.

tisza · May 24, 2020

clint van damme said:
can you clear up who will pay for testing if play resumes Better days?

EFL will pay for tests against future monies due to clubs so ultimately clubs paying.
But all the other PPE etc costs paid by clubs directly.
It's a cash flow measure whilst doors are closed.

larry_david · May 24, 2020

I wanted the season to resume. If it does, good let's win it on the pitch. My real concern is that I've now accepted championship football next season, have the players? And if we do play on and we do somehow fuck it up, I don't know how we'd recover. I know I'd be a mess!

Malaka · May 24, 2020

alfielloyd said:
Brilliant!
Currently listening to Sabotage.

Thrill of it All is a killer rift

olderskyblue · May 24, 2020

clint van damme said:
Emerson was never the same when he came back.
A couple of times we were linked with Megson as manager, I wouldn't have been too happy with that.

I don’t like Emerson. He disallowed a goal of mine at dads v kids at his sons primary school.... :emoji_laughing:

clint van damme · May 24, 2020

olderskyblue said:
I don’t like Emerson. He disallowed a goal of mine at dads v kids at his sons primary school.... :emoji_laughing:

he didn't go to VAR?!

Philosoraptor · May 24, 2020

Lord_Nampil said:
Vote now expected on the 8th June...... that seems massively late......

Which vote, I understand there are meant to be two.

I would understand there can't be one vote before the other.

Am I right here?

The window to restart the season looks pretty much slammed shut now.

olderskyblue · May 24, 2020

clint van damme said:
he didn't go to VAR?!

No. He even ignored a supporter Standing right by the goal who told him it went in. Admittedly, it was my wife....

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 24, 2020

chiefdave said:
Imagine if this was the point the Championship broke away from the EFL and they ended promotion and relegation. Sunderland and Pompey would be stuck in L1!

Obviously won't happen but would be funny. Even if the Championship did decide to move to that system they're find a way to get the 'big' clubs in.

Thing is if the did 'break away' so as to not allow promotion from L1, would the PL be able to refuse promotion from Championship and solidarity payments etc? The agreement they made wasn't with this breakaway league so would have to be completely renegotiated.

Also would lower league teams start to refuse letting players leave for Championship clubs and thus remove their ability to sign upcoming talent?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 24, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
That is not fact it is conjecture

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk

Indeed it is but say if you had the choice of playing Bolton, Southend and Tranmere or Rotherham, Oxford and Portsmouth which would you choose and expect to take more points from?

Having said that , given the huge break the form could be more of a lottery now and as you get to the end of a season it's arguably more favourable to play mid-table teams with nothing to fight for than a team scrapping to stay up (as we ourselves can attest to)

jordan210 · May 24, 2020

tisza said:
This PPE figure seems to be shrinking by the day with him.
He's deliberately missing the point. Clubs with financial issues or nothing to play for don't want to be extending players contracts past June 30th. Would seem some teams bitching about this type of teams putting out very weak sides in July to save money. So distorting the integrity of the competition.

He just makes up numbers that suit his argument. Then blocks people who call him out.

jordan210 · May 24, 2020

Lord_Nampil said:
Vote now expected on the 8th June...... that seems massively late......

This is getting ridiculous really. I assume now EFL are making sure they do everything by the book. cross the T's dot the i's. So people cant pick holes.

Mcbean · May 24, 2020

U turn there ?

chiefdave · May 24, 2020

While he's firing out random figures has he actually come up with a solution to what actually happens with players whose loans / contracts will have ended?

EFL to end season this week - City likely to be promoted (7 Viewers)

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