Not really. Ultimately, you can only score what's in front of you. But it's a rubbish metric to use for the point you're trying to prove, especially when there's complete anomalies such as a hattrick vs Maidstone in there.
Hence why context needs to be applied to the data otherwise it's meaningless as a standalone.
I have backed Simms and tried to be patient, but he is unfortunately the same player he was when he signed - I can't name any aspect of his game that is better or worse than the day he walked through the door, has the odd good game, but for every one of those there is two or three where he looks like a competition winner
What is worrying me at the moment is he is not even missing chances... He is just not getting any to miss in the first place
Why is that an anomaly? We played a full strength and Haji Wright played in the same game but didn’t score. It’s also offset by the Wolves and Man U games too.
Even so, if you discount those goals and Haji’s penalty goals, Simms scored more than Haji from open play.
It’s a straight comparison because Haji and Simms joined the same time, have played in more or the less the same games and have scored roughly the same goals.
If Haji scored a hattrick against Rotherham or Maidstone last season, I doubt that the same people would be saying ‘yeah but, no but’.
Every goal counts and any analysis that discounts them is manipulative.
TBF, probably not many more prolific forwards in the Championship, over the last 3 seasons, than Simms. He's scored 1 every 230 minutes. Piroe is 1 in every 180 minutes, but then he cost more and is definitely worth a lot more + Leeds have been scoring for fun. Take someone like Riis, at Preston, he's 1 for every 260 minutes. This is just league goals.
Well he must have done something right then! Considering our results under Frank, if Simms has played in 26 games ( as you stated), we have won most of them, so he can't be that shite!! They were all shite against Plymouth, apart from Patterson. Did he set up the goal? Did he get a head to the ball when Wright should have scored? No probs to have a go at the team, they were shite. Not sure why you single out Simms!Numbers really aren't your thing are they? He's started 16 games under Frank and been on 10 as sub, so if anything he's featured even more under Lampard. It's also 59% v 41% on starting v sub not '50PC'. He's also featured in 93%of matches over the season. I've been at almost all of them and certainly enough to form an opinion. If you want to quote assits to helping his numbers then he has 2 assists in 41 matches and no he didnt set up the goal, it was saved and Wright put in the rebound.
I'm not sure how you managed to get so much wrong in one short sentence but well done!
Why dont we support our players rather than dig them out when they put in an equal performance to the rest of the squad?
And most of Cannon’s goals were when he was on loan at StokeThere you go, he cost £3.5m which is decent value.
Isidor is on a goal per 252 minutes, Yates 326 MPG and even Zain Flemming is 235 MPG. I’m not going to go through the games the scored in but will probably be a surprisingly low %. Piroe has only scored in 14 games in a freescoring and dominant Leeds team.
Tom Cannon cost £10 million and he is only on 10 goals this season. People really appreciate just how inflated the transfer market.
The thing is though it was only a couple games ago we were clamouring for Wright out left and Simms through the middle because Simms offers more through the middle.We all want our players to do well, but when his performances are the same week in week out.
He doesn't seem to be learning, improving, that's what frustrates the fans.
We have another tough game on Saturday against Luton, I hope Simms scores a couple of goals and gets man of the match.
Totally agree. Don't think any of strikers ,can play as long strikers. Wright had one brilliant game in that role, but generally doesn't suit him..or the others.I am on the fence with Simms.
Based on yesterday's game and others like it this season, I can see the frustration that comes with Simms.
I would balance this by saying I don't think he is suited to playing a lone striker role and it's not a surprise that his best performances this season came when he played in a two with BTA.
In the summer we will need another striker, regardless of what happens with Simms as all of our current options are not consistent enough.
Fk me talk about changing your argument to suit. First he's not played, then he's not played under Frank now it's he must be doing well because the team are winning. It's not about having a go at Simms, fk me I'd be amazed despite all the argument if anyone on this board wouldn't love to see him score a hattrick on Saturday, but on current form I feel I've got more chance of being invited to the Pope's wedding!Well he must have done something right then! Considering our results under Frank, if Simms has played in 26 games ( as you stated), we have won most of them, so he can't be that shite!! They were all shite against Plymouth, apart from Patterson. Did he set up the goal? Did he get a head to the ball when Wright should have scored? No probs to have a go at the team, they were shite. Not sure why you single out Simms!
I'm not sure why you keep bringing last season into it. Last season Sheaf was player of the season, yet so many have written him off and have a pop at him. Last season we had a great spell when O'hare was fit and firing etc ect. So many variables.
This season whatever metric you use of games played (41 v 25), games started (24 v 19) or minutes played (2,152 v 1,753) goal, Haji is miles ahead in goals (6 v 12) and minutes per goal (359 v 146). It's not even close.
The thing is though it was only a couple games ago we were clamouring for Wright out left and Simms through the middle because Simms offers more through the middle.
Wright gets bullied out of games sometimes, whereas Simms always makes a nuisance of himself, technically he’s not the player we thought but he’s a hard worker its just his personality and body language that makes him look lazy when in reality he’s a calm, laid back guy just like Wright.
There’s a clear difference when Simms is in the team when the ball goes into the box teams scramble more as they know he can put it in the net or flick it for a Rudoni or Sakamoto or Wright or EMC or MvE etc etc.
The thing is we havent struggled for goals this year and in this system the emphasis isn’t on the ST to score goals unless they dry up elsewhere, the dirtywork is to be done by the CF to allow the wide players to isolate Full backs or create space for Rudoni to burst through.
The area that needs fixing is defence, 57 goals conceded is really poor and is saved by the fact we have the 3rd highest Goals scored (62) in the league behind Middlesbrough (64) and Leeds (89).
Take Simms out and put BTA, Bassette or Wright through the middle watch us struggle to score trust me
Simms started at Millwall early on in Frank's reign. He was disappointing, and lost his place for a spell. He then came back looking bang up for it, and scoring goals. Then the goals dried up, but he was still playing well (Oxford away). He's gone back into his shell again. He wasn't strong enough yesterday. If he scores at Luton, and begins a run of goals (as is his habit) then it could be perfect timing.
And most of Cannon’s goals were when he was on loan at Stoke
The thing is you can forgive form. But form is really 6-8 games. 10 at a push. When he's featured in 41/44 it feels much worse. I'm also not sure he's been injured really and should be up to speed whether to come on or play. He was on the bench unused twice so can only be one game he was out injured for at most. Equally included in Wright's figures are him having to get back his sharpness after a long lay-off and playing games in more than one position. It's day and night (imo) to compare them.Players have bad seasons and this is something people seem unable to accept. Simms has had a drop off, there’s no denying that. He’s struggled to break into the team, with injury and loss of form. However, when the team needed him to deliver, his goals were instrumental in shooting us up the table.
The people who wrote Sheaf off look silly as well. Simms will have a big season next year imo.
Well you proved me wrong re appearances, but you cannot have it both ways. If the team has been winning , under Frank, which they have, he can't be that shite. When Wright was injured , for a long time. We played 5 at the back and 2 strikers. We won loads and Simms and Assante played well together. He was shite on Saturday, but they all were. He still managed to set up a goal and another one that Wright should have scored. Why not set up a forum about all the others. MVE..shite...Tats...shite...Bidwell shite..Collins shite... Grimes..shite..etc, etc..Fk me talk about changing your argument to suit. First he's not played, then he's not played under Frank now it's he must be doing well because the team are winning. It's not about having a go at Simms, fk me I'd be amazed despite all the argument if anyone on this board wouldn't love to see him score a hattrick on Saturday, but on current form I feel I've got more chance of being invited to the Pope's wedding!
To get better we’d have to get promoted as we simply can’t attract better, Haji is a top player in this league and Simms on his day is a good player1 goal in 13 for Sheff U. He only scored the 9 goals over 6 games. 2 in 13 for Leicester too, all scored in one game.
I don’t think we’ll get much better than Haji and Simms to be honest. We’ll have to work with what we’ve got.
Players have bad seasons and this is something people seem unable to accept. Simms has had a drop off, there’s no denying that. He’s struggled to break into the team, with injury and loss of form. However, when the team needed him to deliver, his goals were instrumental in shooting us up the table.
The people who wrote Sheaf off look silly as well. Simms will have a big season next year imo.
The thing is you can forgive form. But form is really 6-8 games. 10 at a push. When he's featured in 41/44 it feels much worse. I'm also not sure he's been injured really and should be up to speed whether to come on or play. He was on the bench unused twice so can only be one game he was out injured for at most. Equally included in Wright's figures are him having to get back his sharpness after a long lay-off and playing games in more than one position. It's day and night (imo) to compare them.
Anyhow, I really hope that you can come back on here Saturday night, quote me and all the others with a massive 'I told you so' and we have multiple threads with na na na na na na na na Ellis, Ellis Simms.
People aren't saying that though, you've just pulled that from thin air. The problem with Simms is that he simply can't be relied upon and that's been proven over an extended period.
Even last season his form was erratic. A positive 14/15 game period was sandwiched in between a 1 game in 7 spell and a 4 goal in 35 spell.
What has followed is a consistently poor season where both numbers posted and performances have been pretty crap on the whole.
No player is going to play well every game but you simply can't have a striker in what is supposed to be a promotion chasing side who doesn't perform to the standard that is expected of him for massive chunks of the season. Surely you get that?
Which is why questions have to be asked now whether he has a future here or if it's simply just not working.
Simms can't seem to use his physical strength to hold the ball up , make a nuisance of himself , his first touch is often poor,doesn't even look particularly full of pace , and his goals record this season has been poor.People aren't saying that though, you've just pulled that from thin air. The problem with Simms is that he simply can't be relied upon and that's been proven over an extended period.
Even last season his form was erratic. A positive 14/15 game period was sandwiched in between a 1 game in 7 spell and a 4 goal in 35 spell.
What has followed is a consistently poor season where both numbers posted and performances have been pretty crap on the whole.
No player is going to play well every game but you simply can't have a striker in what is supposed to be a promotion chasing side who doesn't perform to the standard that is expected of him for massive chunks of the season. Surely you get that?
Which is why questions have to be asked now whether he has a future here or if it's simply just not working.
He's got to learn how to fucking control it firstHe just doesn't have a strikers instinct, ie, anticipation, getting in front of the defender as the ball comes across.
He don't seem to have many of those days nowTo get better we’d have to get promoted as we simply can’t attract better, Haji is a top player in this league and Simms on his day is a good player
‘Featured in’ is the operative word here. When you work out the minutes he’s played, it’s nearly half the games - 25.5 games.
It’s totally different comparing a player who’s started 40 games versus someone who’s come on as a sub in a similar amount of games.
The long term data on Simms’ career contradicts most of this. His per 90 minute goals for us tracks closely with his career standard of 1 in 3 games.
He's only really started games at the start of the season, and in Jan when the Bassette experiment was dropped. The data metrics also show our results are stronger when Simms starts for us.
What does it contradict? I'm well aware of his MPG you've bored most of us to death with your infallible argument enough for one afternoon.
Having an MPG of 3.6 (all comps) this season doesn't mean if he started over a full season he's guaranteed to score 15ish goals, it's a very rough projection. Stats without context are just numbers. Look at the last 10-11 games as an example. He hasn't scored once and has posted a fairly solid amount of minutes. Small sample size granted but his performances aren't screaming I'm a 1 in 3 striker.
Also his minutes over the season, or lack thereof, will surely be skewed by the fact he's taken off early most games? Granted we often rotate the front three at the back end of games, but he's often the first to come off.
Honestly haven't been told a name yet, if the talks advance he'll usually then give it up. Literally just told me a couple of things after Stoke at home, so i messaged Saddle to see if he'd heard similar, he said he had.Does his name start with J?
Not heard anything about a keeper, but this was before Dovin injury.@Jimmy87 any other snippets on potential areas of priority - GK for example / centre half?
Guess will also depend who’s shipped out / moved on - suspect Stoke may be destination for couple.
So thats Lati and BTANot heard anything about a keeper, but this was before Dovin injury.
You're right, i'm presuming they are preparing for both scenarios, go up / stay down, who's likely to leave etc.
He told me he is certain a bid will come in for Eccles, there has been whispers about this since January, so somebody is showing heavy interest obviously. Whether or not he's in the plans and we accept a bid, i don't know.
One CB wants out, think we know who that is by now. He stills says it wasn't Burnley after him.
One forward player wants to moved on for game time.
Looking to move on one of the LB's to make way for this target.
I first heard about their injuries during Sheff Weds away, Eccles, BTA and Simms were all managing problems (injections etc). Been a recurring problem for each of them since.Last season he did score 13 goals when starting most games… which is 1 in 3 in a 46 game season.
In 17 of his appearances this season have been less than 30 minute appearances. That certainly has skewed the numbers, equally, it’s misleading to say he’s scored 6 in 40-odd presented as if he’s putting up Stuart Beavon numbers as a regular starter because that isn’t the case.
We’ve been told he’s been playing with an injury and without knowing what it is and for long, we can’t judge. My best guess is that he’s probably been injured between Oxford (a) and Stoke (H) because that’s when he started getting subbed off earlier than usual and tracks with what Jimmy87 said about BTA succumbing to a similar injury around the same time.
You mention the last 10-11 games as if he hasn’t been a sub for 4 of those and supposedly having a rest because of an injury he’s having.
Under Lampard, he was back in fold as a starter since Cardiff (A) on New Year. It’s been about 20 games from then and he’s scored 4 goals. It’s nothing special but it really isn’t as bad as some people are making out to be the case.
When you assess the raw data, the minutes played versus the goals scored, he is nowhere near as bad as people have made out. Thats enough in my mind that things will eventually even out and he’ll be a consistent goal threat on this league.
I’m confident he’ll do v well next season when he gets over his injuries and the coaches work on his game.
Could be BinksSo thats Lati and BTA
So for all the stick Simms has been getting, turns out hes been playing with an injury.I first heard about their injuries during Sheff Weds away, Eccles, BTA and Simms were all managing problems (injections etc). Been a recurring problem for each of them since.
Not heard anything about a keeper, but this was before Dovin injury.
You're right, i'm presuming they are preparing for both scenarios, go up / stay down, who's likely to leave etc.
He told me he is certain a bid will come in for Eccles, there has been whispers about this since January, so somebody is showing heavy interest obviously. Whether or not he's in the plans and we accept a bid, i don't know.
One CB wants out, think we know who that is by now. He stills says it wasn't Burnley after him.
One forward player wants to moved on for game time.
Looking to move on one of the LB's to make way for this target.
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