Elvis Project No 1 Barton & fleck (1 Viewer)

shy_tall_knight · Mar 9, 2013

Elvis likes to promote younger players, Barton & Fleck have youth on their side and higher levels of skill than the average Div 1 player but don't seem to be able to cut it at this level.

Does he play these in preference to Sheffers/ baker / Bell

Does he slowly integrate them

Are they binned.

I think they will be binned Barton is a luxury, pressing opposition to win the ball back Spanish style doesn't seem his game.

Fleck despite his assistance stats (mis hit shots and crosses against crawley form part of those stats) lacks physicality to be effective in this league and as bad as Sheffers has been Fleck hasn't threatened to oust him.

slyblue57 · Mar 9, 2013

Think you re wrong about both. I think a lot of people on here have forgotten what a good skillful player is .
Both Barton and Fleck could be great players for us given an opportunity in the team, they both need regular
games.

Grendel · Mar 9, 2013

Barton was signed after a career threatening injury and looks poor. Fleck is just poor full stop.

Interestingly in his interview Pressley said players to keep shape and press opposition as much when we are off the ball as well as on it.

These 2 go missing when we are not in possession.

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 9, 2013

slyblue57 said:
Think you re wrong about both. I think a lot of people on here have forgotten what a good skillful player is .
Both Barton and Fleck could be great players for us given an opportunity in the team, they both need regular
games.

I echo that sentiment.

Luxury players are, in short, and very generally, are players who aren't all blood and thunder (usually without any technicality) and British fans appreciate that over technicality.

shy_tall_knight · Mar 9, 2013

I have recognised their skill in the above post but Robins din't seem to play them much. fleck came on against Yeovil in a game we were losing and seemed so static, he has good touch and vision but where do you play him too slow to be out wide, easily brushed off the ball in the middle.

Barton has demonstrated what a fine shot he has runs well with the ball but a luxury because doesn't generate the same work effort as the rest of the midfield.

Grendel · Mar 9, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I echo that sentiment.

Luxury players are, in short, and very generally, are players who aren't all blood and thunder (usually without any technicality) and British fans appreciate that over technicality.

That is nonsense. Players like van Persie are not blood and thunder. Successful technical players also work got the team in other ways. Technical ability is not playing 4 30 yard passes in a game and then doing nothing else.

shy_tall_knight · Mar 9, 2013

"Luxury players are, in short, and very generally, are players who aren't all blood and thunder (usually without any technicality) and British fans appreciate that over technicality" - not many were applauding Barton after Stevenage scored their winner at the ricoh as he failed to track his player from a corner and the player scored a free header to win the game.

Spain Barcelona work hard without the ball, that's not technical, its commitment.

I want Fleck & Barton to succeed just need to be realistic as to what they can do and how they fit in, in a team that lacks so much pace and has been beaten so often at home by technically poor teams. I think Swindon are the first team that beat us at home that outplayed us.

SkyBlueScottie · Mar 9, 2013

I knew Barton would come in for flack this season, he is young, not played many games and had a horrendous injury to get over. He has also moved clubs, he really needs time to settle, he has made a few appearances this season and also scored some very nice goals, in time he will become a decent player.

Fleck another youngster, why are some supporters so quick to write players off, yet many are quick to point out that McAllister was prepared to bin McSheffrey after a few years of not making the breakthrough.

stupot07 · Mar 9, 2013

shy_tall_knight said:
"Luxury players are, in short, and very generally, are players who aren't all blood and thunder (usually without any technicality) and British fans appreciate that over technicality" - not many were applauding Barton after Stevenage scored their winner at the ricoh as he failed to track his player from a corner and the player scored a free header to win the game.

[BSpain Barcelona work hard without the ball, that's not technical, its commitment.[/b]

I want Fleck & Barton to succeed just need to be realistic as to what they can do and how they fit in, in a team that lacks so much pace and has been beaten so often at home by technically poor teams. I think Swindon are the first team that beat us at home that outplayed us.

Spot on. Being skillful and working hard defensively aren't mutually exclusive.

psgm1 · Mar 9, 2013

shy_tall_knight said:
Elvis likes to promote younger players, Barton & Fleck have youth on their side and higher levels of skill than the average Div 1 player but don't seem to be able to cut it at this level.

Does he play these in preference to Sheffers/ baker / Bell

Does he slowly integrate them

Are they binned.

I think they will be binned Barton is a luxury, pressing opposition to win the ball back Spanish style doesn't seem his game.

Fleck despite his assistance stats (mis hit shots and crosses against crawley form part of those stats) lacks physicality to be effective in this league and as bad as Sheffers has been Fleck hasn't threatened to oust him.

Funniest thing I ever read! They are better than this level, but cannot cut it at this level!

In other words - they are NOT good enough!

Classic delusion

Stafford_SkBlue · Mar 9, 2013

Barton a good player - he played two weeks ago for the u21's and on all account had a good game, but did did not play last Monday. When the pitches get better in April we need him and Bell.

shy_tall_knight · Mar 9, 2013

Funniest thing I ever read! They are better than this level, but cannot cut it at this level!

In other words - they are NOT good enough!

Classic delusion

I wrote that they are more "SKILFUL" not better ie like Le Tissierwho was seen as one of the most skilful footballers in England but was overlooked by England due to his workrate etc..

for those that went how did Sheffers do and how did Fleck do, radio implied Sheffers was heavily involved in a lot of our attacking play.

Support-the-team · Mar 9, 2013

Don't be daft, these two have the potential to be out best players. Ok it hasn't worked this season, Barton has just come back from a serious injury and fleck is just obese, but wait till next season. I expect Barton to step up 100%

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Mar 9, 2013

shy_tall_knight said:
Elvis likes to promote younger players, Barton & Fleck have youth on their side and higher levels of skill than the average Div 1 player but don't seem to be able to cut it at this level.

Does he play these in preference to Sheffers/ baker / Bell

Does he slowly integrate them

Are they binned.

I think they will be binned Barton is a luxury, pressing opposition to win the ball back Spanish style doesn't seem his game.

Fleck despite his assistance stats (mis hit shots and crosses against crawley form part of those stats) lacks physicality to be effective in this league and as bad as Sheffers has been Fleck hasn't threatened to oust him.

Baker needs to stay in the team. Fleck, Barton and Thomas need to be integrated into the team. He likes playing the kids in his teams, so i think it wud be a 5 man midfield with Moussa pushing behing Leon, Fleck on the left, Thomas and Barton in the centre and Baker on the right

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 9, 2013

Grendel said:
That is nonsense. Players like van Persie are not blood and thunder. Successful technical players also work got the team in other ways. Technical ability is not playing 4 30 yard passes in a game and then doing nothing else.

In "general" and "short" it is.

I don't know how a player can be a 'luxury' anyway? Stupid concept.

covcity4life · Mar 9, 2013

Both good players that can do a job for ccfc

sw88 · Mar 9, 2013

Barton is a strange one. I do hope Pressley can find a place for him though. We need players who aren't afraid to shoot from distance and i think this is something Barton offers us! Hes already scored a couple of long rangers for us. His laid back style will be considered 'lazy' by some fans though.

Fleck, im not sure where his best position is. He tends to alternate / replace Sheff who is more left sided, but I see Fleck as a central player. Yet to see him do anything to prove hes a good player though!

stupot07 · Mar 9, 2013

covcity4life said:
Both good players that can do a job for ccfc

Yep Chester city fc

stupot07 · Mar 9, 2013

sw88 said:
Barton is a strange one. I do hope Pressley can find a place for him though. We need players who aren't afraid to shoot from distance and i think this is something Barton offers us! Hes already scored a couple of long rangers for us. His laid back style will be considered 'lazy' by some fans though.

Fleck, im not sure where his best position is. He tends to alternate / replace Sheff who is more left sided, but I see Fleck as a central player. Yet to see him do anything to prove hes a good player though!

Regardless of what us fans think, neither player has managed to convince our manager(s) their deserving of a regular place in the side.

deanocity3 · Mar 9, 2013

i doubt if sp has seen or heard of many of our players,so most of them all start from scratch and will try to impress him from the word go

sw88 · Mar 9, 2013

deanocity3 said:
i doubt if sp has seen or heard of many of our players,so most of them all start from scratch and will try to impress him from the word go

Im sure hes heard of Fleck though.......

Wouldnt be surprised to see him start Tuesday

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Mar 9, 2013

sw88 said:
Barton is a strange one. I do hope Pressley can find a place for him though. We need players who aren't afraid to shoot from distance and i think this is something Barton offers us! Hes already scored a couple of long rangers for us. His laid back style will be considered 'lazy' by some fans though.

Fleck, im not sure where his best position is. He tends to alternate / replace Sheff who is more left sided, but I see Fleck as a central player. Yet to see him do anything to prove hes a good player though!

Hardly seen him at home, but apparently when he came against Crewe away in the JPT, he played central and was the mastermind behind our goals and some great chances, so i would like to see him in the cntre, but i wanna see Moussa push up behind Leon and Sheffers needs to earn his place in the team, plus Thomas and Barton cant play on the wing, so may be the only option for 451

shy_tall_knight · Mar 9, 2013

Liam I don't know how old you are but we used to have players such as Nuddy or Huckerby where the debate was whether they were better out wide or up front through the middle ie they seemed to be effective in both positions.

The problem with Fleck and Barton is they are restricted as to where they can play, lack pace not physical enough, not interested in their perceived potential its what they can do now, they are 21 & 22. Nuddy 18 when he made his debut, Hucks was 20.

Not sure you can have a successful campaign if the squad has such limitations in its squad. We have lost so many home games by being outfought rather than outplayed and I'm not convinced these two are up for the fight.

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Mar 10, 2013

shy_tall_knight said:
Liam I don't know how old you are but we used to have players such as Nuddy or Huckerby where the debate was whether they were better out wide or up front through the middle ie they seemed to be effective in both positions.

The problem with Fleck and Barton is they are restricted as to where they can play, lack pace not physical enough, not interested in their perceived potential its what they can do now, they are 21 & 22. Nuddy 18 when he made his debut, Hucks was 20.

Not sure you can have a successful campaign if the squad has such limitations in its squad. We have lost so many home games by being outfought rather than outplayed and I'm not convinced these two are up for the fight.

I'm 17 so Huckerby is a bit before my time. I still think we need a proper Left Winger. Sheffers has and always will be an attacking midfielder. Look what we did when we played him behind the lone striker last season compared to what he did when he played on the wing the season before. We need a proper, agile, speedy left winger who had work down the line, cut into the centre and who can actually cross. Shefers want cross, isnt as fast as he was and is suited behind the lone striker. We need a young player who's favoured position is the left wing. That way Sheffers can play in his favoured position, we need a proper left winger and we get to choose between Fleck and Barton to replace Jenno, cus he isnt in good foorm and Bailey will for sure be going back to Derby

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