England v italy (1 Viewer)

oldskyblue58 · Jun 25, 2012

Seems to me that we always look to find excuses for poor performance without ever really addressing the real issue which is the depth of real talent in this country. We have the richest league in the world and yet so little seems to be spent on the long term plan to develop our own talent. Look at the England team and the first 11 or so are capable without being that exciting but what is behind it ?

We are not comfortable on the ball, our ball retention is woeful, we are forced to rely on defense because we have little in midfield that is incisive or creative, we are workmanlike not talented and until we invest properly from grass roots up in developing touch and skill to match our natural strength defensively then we will remain a quarter final team. Until we realise that passing it around the back and them lumping it forward is not good enough then we will not progress - there are flashes of incisive passing football so we can do it at International level but it is so rare it almost brings amazement amongst those watching

But go to a league match, go to a parks pitch, listen to what is being shouted from the side lines, watch the product on the pitch ..... the choice is generally long ball lump it or safe and risk free when it comes to English football. The reason the premiership rises above it is not generally because of the English players ..... the risk takers, the players good on the ball, the entertainment is often not English bred.

Think Hodgson has done a good job in a short time with what he has but I am sure he knows we need better and that it will take time.

ajsccfc · Jun 25, 2012

If Hodgson catches any kind of shit for this the world's gone mad. He's been England manager for all of five minutes and already done better on the big stage than Capello did.

Otis · Jun 25, 2012

The only shit I would throw at Hodgson would be that he should have taken Adam Johnson to the tournament and that Ashley Young quite clearly isn't good enough for international football and should have been dropped after the very first game. I find it unbelievable that Young played all 4 matches when he was absolutely dreadful in all of them.

Hodgson did make one big mistake last night in taking off Milner when it obviously should have been Young. Never want to see Ashley Young don an England shirt again unless it is down the pub with his mates watching the game.

stupot07 · Jun 25, 2012

Agree with Otis, but would also add that another criticism is playing 442 the same thing the press and pundits vilified Capello for doing.

The double sub last night should have been Welbeck/Rooney and young off and the ox an walcott, pushing Milner infield and playing a proper 5 across the midfield where we're were being completely outplayed.

stupot07 · Jun 25, 2012

Double post

Otis · Jun 25, 2012

stupot07 said:
Agree with Otis, but would also add that another criticism is playing 442 the same thing the press and pundits vilified Capello for doing.

The double sub last night should have been Welbeck/Rooney and young off and the ox an walcott, pushing Milner infield and playing a proper 5 across the midfield where we're were being completely outplayed.

Yep, agree with that. I don't think Rooney was as bad as many have made out. He just tired badly and clearly still wasn't match fit. Added to that was the fact that at times he had 4 Italian defenders crowding him out and closing him down in one go.

Milner is one player who does have a very good engine and will keep going for you the whole 90 mins. No idea why Hodgson kept Young on, who also offers so little defensively too.

1nilandwe... · Jun 25, 2012

As much as I'd have liked to have seen us play some nice football, I felt that we needed to give Carroll a longer run out. He won so much ball whenever it went near him and he was our only forward who got any time on the ball.

The Italians knew that our movement and our footwork was not up to scratch, so whenever we got the ball in reasonable areas they could just send three or four men, safe in the knowledge that we weren't going to pass our way out of it and they'd crowd us out.

A bit of direct, up-and-under type football may not have been pretty, but it'd have been more effective.

Paxman II · Jun 25, 2012

Just add my opinion...

Rooney is atrocious at international level. What ever it is at club level it does not transcend with him to the national team and never will. he lacks skills of a top class player. he has little pace, gives the ball away aimlessly time and time again resulting in our forward pressure breaking down constantly. By comparison when Carroll came on he held the ball up 85% of the time.
In the first two games without Rooney Gerrard was not so deep, we played more varied football and the likes of Welbeck and carroll looked far more effective with Milner crossing from the right and Cole bursting down the left. With Rooney the format changed and we got far more negative going forward. It can't all go through Rooney....he simply is not good enough for that.
Pirlo gave us a footrball lesson last night and yet at his age we should have stamped him out. Rooney never got near him and when he did it was a foul and we ended up under pressure.
I like the younger more hungry players and only a few of our older players can say they were good. gerrard had a slow start to the tournement thn played well then fizzled out again last night.
I hope we blood more of our young hungry talent from here on in. Overall not a bad tournement for us under the circumstances but frustrating to think had we stepped it up just a little we would be facing Germany in the semi's. We are not a million miles away and other teams are given far too much respect for me. Spain have been fairly mediore by their standards and germany have not faced a stern test yet. Portugal look very good going forward and well organised. Holland were a bloody shambles and the French not much better so we are not that bad and we will get better and better now we have a decent Englishman at the helm.

wingy · Jun 25, 2012

Agree entirely Paxman ,on another note ,have felt the Italians would make the final from the outset,but one hell of a challenge comoing up on Thursday.

Edit ; Also think this tournament will be of massive benefit toCarrols career @ Liverpool .

stupot07 · Jun 25, 2012

Paxman - did you actually watch the first two games, in particular the France game where apart from the first 30 mins we were camped inside our own 18 yard box?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 25, 2012

Paxman II said:
Just add my opinion...

Rooney is atrocious at international level. What ever it is at club level it does not transcend with him to the national team and never will. he lacks skills of a top class player. he has little pace, gives the ball away aimlessly time and time again resulting in our forward pressure breaking down constantly. By comparison when Carroll came on he held the ball up 85% of the time.
In the first two games without Rooney Gerrard was not so deep, we played more varied football and the likes of Welbeck and carroll looked far more effective with Milner crossing from the right and Cole bursting down the left. With Rooney the format changed and we got far more negative going forward. It can't all go through Rooney....he simply is not good enough for that.
Pirlo gave us a footrball lesson last night and yet at his age we should have stamped him out. Rooney never got near him and when he did it was a foul and we ended up under pressure.
I like the younger more hungry players and only a few of our older players can say they were good. gerrard had a slow start to the tournement thn played well then fizzled out again last night.
I hope we blood more of our young hungry talent from here on in. Overall not a bad tournement for us under the circumstances but frustrating to think had we stepped it up just a little we would be facing Germany in the semi's. We are not a million miles away and other teams are given far too much respect for me. Spain have been fairly mediore by their standards and germany have not faced a stern test yet. Portugal look very good going forward and well organised. Holland were a bloody shambles and the French not much better so we are not that bad and we will get better and better now we have a decent Englishman at the helm.

More apparent for me was the fact that whenever we had the ball in the Italian third of the pitch, there'd be at most 2 or 3 of our players getting forward in support; so it meant Rooney/Carroll/Welbeck just had to hold the ball up for an age waiting for support that never came. That same lack of urgency we see all the time with City and it usually results in the same outcome-zero attacking threat and relying on flukes or individual genius for a goal.

Grendel · Jun 25, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
More apparent for me was the fact that whenever we had the ball in the Italian third of the pitch, there'd be at most 2 or 3 of our players getting forward in support; so it meant Rooney/Carroll/Welbeck just had to hold the ball up for an age waiting for support that never came. That same lack of urgency we see all the time with City and it usually results in the same outcome-zero attacking threat and relying on flukes or individual genius for a goal.

Andy Carroll was so pedestrian he reminded me of Mick Ferguson - now you won't know who that is but it isn't a complement - and I'd bet on Fergie to score more goals.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 25, 2012

Grendel said:
Andy Carroll was so pedestrian he reminded me of Mick Ferguson - now you won't know who that is but it isn't a complement - and I'd bet on Fergie to score more goals.

He took his goal against Sweden very well I thought-given proper service I think he could be very useful; he lacks real technical ability mind and has a brain about as useful as his haircut.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jun 25, 2012

Andy Carroll showed his inexperience vs Italy, many times he had zero pressure and had space to take the ball down on the chest. Instead he chose to flick it on to an Italian defender 70% of the time.

Houchens Head · Jun 26, 2012

Even this couldn't put the Italians off scoring!!

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