Expectations at begining of season were... (2 Viewers)

Voice_of_Reason · Jan 31, 2016

Looking back, the majority thought that mid-table, top ten would be an achievement. Despite our unexpected flying start, TM did warn us to keep our feet on the ground as this could change when grounds became heavier. So, to still be in the top six, still with an outside chance of automatic promotion is remarkable.
A bad slump in form doesn't mean promotion cannot be achieved as all slumps do come to an end at some point.
With the addition of two astute signings now, we could be back on track, something far beyond the wildest dreams of most at the begining of the season.

PUSB

Huckerby · Jan 31, 2016

We have zero chance of automatic promotion with the current setup

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AFCCOVENTRY · Jan 31, 2016

The automatic dream is well and truly dead. The best we can hope for is a play off finish...but if Mogga doesn't sign some decent players soon it will be a mid table finish.

The form table doesn't lie, and currently we are one of the worst teams in be league.

Grendel · Jan 31, 2016

AFCCOVENTRY said:
The automatic dream is well and truly dead. The best we can hope for is a play off finish...but if Mogga doesn't sign some decent players soon it will be a mid table finish.

The form table doesn't lie, and currently we are one of the worst teams in be league.

Exactly - the expectation of a two year project is gradual improvement not a sharp decline

stevefloyd · Jan 31, 2016

Voice_of_Reason said:
Looking back, the majority thought that mid-table, top ten would be an achievement. Despite our unexpected flying start, TM did warn us to keep our feet on the ground as this could change when grounds became heavier. So, to still be in the top six, still with an outside chance of automatic promotion is remarkable.
A bad slump in form doesn't mean promotion cannot be achieved as all slumps do come to an end at some point.
With the addition of two astute signings now, we could be back on track, something far beyond the wildest dreams of most at the begining of the season.

PUSB

All slumps come to an end at sometime our last slump has lasted 30 years

stevefloyd · Jan 31, 2016

Grendel said:
Exactly - the expectation of a two year project is gradual improvement not a sharp decline

Absolutely 100% agree... but lets just hope its a temporary decline before an even sharper climb

Londonccfcfan · Jan 31, 2016

Grendel said:
Exactly - the expectation of a two year project is gradual improvement not a sharp decline

He's talking about in the context of the whole season so far. A snapshot at this moment in time we are 5th!!! Which is still fantastic.

Huge improvement from this time last year from when TM took over.

WTF are u on about sharp decline, yes from the context of being top of the table. Yes a decline if you of u look at last 3 games. But I think the point of a two year project there is no decline.

Well on track ahead of schedule. Use a larger time frame than few bad games.

Your contradicting yourself, seems like all you like doing on here is play devils advocate.

skybluetony176 · Jan 31, 2016

Grendel said:
Exactly - the expectation of a two year project is gradual improvement not a sharp decline

You do know that were not in a relegation battle like we were this time last year don't you? A sharp decline in a two year project would mean that we'd be sitting in the bottom four not the top six.

Bob Latchford · Jan 31, 2016

Voice_of_Reason said:
Looking back, the majority thought that mid-table, top ten would be an achievement. Despite our unexpected flying start, TM did warn us to keep our feet on the ground as this could change when grounds became heavier. So, to still be in the top six, still with an outside chance of automatic promotion is remarkable.
A bad slump in form doesn't mean promotion cannot be achieved as all slumps do come to an end at some point.
With the addition of two astute signings now, we could be back on track, something far beyond the wildest dreams of most at the begining of the season.

PUSB

I don't want to accept it but , it's true ! finish top 10 this season and , hopefully finish top 6 next .

stupot07 · Jan 31, 2016

Having been top and in the top 1-3 places for over half a season, a top 10 finish is a failure.

And I worry about next season, we have so many out of contract at the end of the season and we will very likely lose our best players (Armstrong, Murphy, Madders, Fleck), so we will be having to replace rather than build on our best players.

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pusbccfc · Jan 31, 2016

Yes, I didn't expect us to be in the top 10 before the start of the season, but I also didn't know then that we would have a squad like the one we have now.

SlowerThanPlatt · Jan 31, 2016

The player set the expectations. They have shown they are/were the best team in the division and now they are one of the worst teams in the division currently

Bob Latchford · Jan 31, 2016

Going from bottom 4 to top10 , is fine by me . even more progress next season , hopefully .

johnwillomagic · Jan 31, 2016

My expectations looking at division this year was minimum play offs - strengthened further with how TM reshaped the squad with
virtually a clean slate and the backing of sisu with transfers/backroom staff and loan deals.

Simply put if we do not make it this year we certainly will not next year......we will lose loads of players/loans and teams coming down will be far stronger.......it is now or never for me in terms of best promotion chances anyhow!

italiahorse · Jan 31, 2016

This is nonsense about a 2 year project.
How can a project improve if it is based on loans that will be different next year.
In addition if our best players are not creamed off tomorrow they will be gone at the end of year.
We have some older players in the team that will also be gone.
So effectively we start again next season from square one.

We need some real investment in the team by our owners or we will stay in this league for at least the next 2 years.
Will be interested to see whether we have had 60% of the income invested in the team.
Not sure how and when we will see that.

Unfortunately I fear the worse if we don't get up this season.

johnwillomagic · Jan 31, 2016

I agree Italia I fear the worst if do not make it this year.......however disagree regarding the owners TM has been well supported this
year with funds available......it is not all down to funds......we have spent a lot more than Walsall, Gills & Burton all of which are
doing a lot better than us at present!

Samo · Jan 31, 2016

There are some big wet blouses on this site, some of whom I'm surprised to see this reaction from. I would not want to be next to you lot in the trenches. The inevitable poor run of form and it's hissy fits and calls for the managers head! Get a grip.

Bob Latchford · Jan 31, 2016

Samo said:
There are some big wet blouses on this site, some of whom I'm surprised to see this reaction from. I would not want to be next to you lot in the trenches. The inevitable poor run of form and it's hissy fits and calls for the managers head! Get a grip.

You smell .

Samo · Jan 31, 2016

Bob Latchford said:
You smell .

I do but how do you know?

Huckerby · Jan 31, 2016

italiahorse said:
This is nonsense about a 2 year project.
How can a project improve if it is based on loans that will be different next year.
In addition if our best players are not creamed off tomorrow they will be gone at the end of year.
We have some older players in the team that will also be gone.
So effectively we start again next season from square one.

We need some real investment in the team by our owners or we will stay in this league for at least the next 2 years.
Will be interested to see whether we have had 60% of the income invested in the team.
Not sure how and when we will see that.

Unfortunately I fear the worse if we don't get up this season.

Oh give it a rest with the investment from the owners bullshit.

We have one of the top budgets in the league, and we saw recently that they wouldn't say no automatically if the right player was available.

Still, never miss a good chance to blame SISU for everything that'd wrong with the world do you

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Seaside-Skyblue · Jan 31, 2016

In all honesty, if you look at the teams in the league this season, its the weakest its been years and there is no better chance to go up than this season so I'd be very disappointed if we didn't at minimum make the play offs. Suddenly talking about two year plans feels like someone whom is buying time, admitting that its all going wrong and trying to convince themselves that top ten would suddenly be ok to avoid disappointment. Its not like we can use the rebuilding card anymore because we've probably got the best squad that we will ever get in this league. If anything, we will lose a lot of these players, not add to them and we will be back to square one next season. With all due respect, when Burton are topping the league with their resources, it says a lot about how weak this division is. Lets not kid ourselves, finishing outside the top six will be a major disappointment.

BrisbaneBronco · Jan 31, 2016

Samo said:
There are some big wet blouses on this site, some of whom I'm surprised to see this reaction from. I would not want to be next to you lot in the trenches. The inevitable poor run of form and it's hissy fits and calls for the managers head! Get a grip.

The reaction comes from years and years of dross.
The same reaction from Man Utd fans at mom, and they have had years and years of success.
The poor run of form u refer to has lasted 11 games where we have taken 11 points, and 11 games is almost qtr season.
We should be worried right now.

Samo · Jan 31, 2016

BrisbaneBronco said:
The reaction comes from years and years of dross.
The same reaction from Man Utd fans at mom, and they have had years and years of success.
The poor run of form u refer to has lasted 11 games where we have taken 11 points, and 11 games is almost qtr season.
We should be worried right now.

Of course, I'm worried too but do you want TM to go?
It makes a change to be worried at the right end of the table!

Grendel · Jan 31, 2016

Samo said:
Of course, I'm worried too but do you want TM to go?
It makes a change to be worried at the right end of the table!

No but if this carried on another month and we'd only picked up a couple of points what then?

The early season form is then the blip surely.

Mowbray needs to address the issues - he's paid to do it

Londonccfcfan · Jan 31, 2016

Seaside-Skyblue said:
In all honesty, if you look at the teams in the league this season, its the weakest its been years and there is no better chance to go up than this season so I'd be very disappointed if we didn't at minimum make the play offs. Suddenly talking about two year plans feels like someone whom is buying time, admitting that its all going wrong and trying to convince themselves that top ten would suddenly be ok to avoid disappointment. Its not like we can use the rebuilding card anymore because we've probably got the best squad that we will ever get in this league. If anything, we will lose a lot of these players, not add to them and we will be back to square one next season. With all due respect, when Burton are topping the league with their resources, it says a lot about how weak this division is. Lets not kid ourselves, finishing outside the top six will be a major disappointment.

I think it's very competitive. The most competitive league one in years. No outstanding team, hence no team will get more than 92 points to win it.

Could get automatic promotion on about 85 points this season.

For the play offs can be anyone from about Swindon upwards. Swindon in 17th position and just 9 points off 6th place. That's just shows how congested it is.

Shrewsbury are 4th from bottom, and have just knocked out Bristol City and Sheff Wed...Madness...oh and they beat Burton last week. Crazy league.

As for relegation, looks like Crewe, Colchester and Oldham but that fourth team could need 55 points this year to stay up this year.

its going to be a very competitive condensed table.

There will probably only be about 14/15 points play off spot ie...69/70 points 6th place to 4th bottom

usskyblue · Jan 31, 2016

Band wagoners and die-hards aside, this isn't a new phenomenon.

The trajectory of most fans' expectations are generally steeper than the teams' actual level of ability, and therefore, achievement. Whatever the reason for the drop in form, (taking in to account all the results to this point), the fact is; we are still meeting, or exceeding pre-season expectations.

Just as the fans' expectation trajectory spikes after good results, it plummets after bad ones. Both the upward and downward expectations are due, in most part, to our distinct lack of success over a good number of years.

The management team have shown they can deliver a good team that plays flowing attacking football. The current impasse seems to have come around halfway through the season, a time when teams are getting a second chance to play against us. It's clear that what worked previously, isn't effective now.
However, it appears that we've continued with the same formula, believing that it's more of a 'blip', than a real issue. This is also when a few poor signings have stuck out like sore thumbs.

I think it's clear that change is needed, playing personnel and/or formation. A new formula if you will. The good news is we aren't starting from scratch again, we are still in with a chance at the playoffs...

...given these changes, where we now sit in the league, and what we know is possible.... I don't think that expectation isn't too high.

Samo · Jan 31, 2016

Grendel said:
No but if this carried on another month and we'd only picked up a couple of points what then?

The early season form is then the blip surely.

Mowbray needs to address the issues - he's paid to do it

And if that happened you'd want him out?

4waspsting · Jan 31, 2016

Mind you these are the same squad of players that could'nt progress through the opening rounds of cup competitions, remember people saying we can concentrate on the league now, some fucking concentrating.

Grendel · Jan 31, 2016

Samo said:
And if that happened you'd want him out?

I would be seriously concerned - sharp declines in form need addressing. Either he addresses it or he doesn't.

usskyblue · Jan 31, 2016

Grendel said:
I would be seriously concerned - sharp declines in form need addressing. Either he addresses it or he doesn't.

It'd be nice if you addressed the question with an answer...

Samo · Jan 31, 2016

Grendel said:
I would be seriously concerned - sharp declines in form need addressing. Either he addresses it or he doesn't.

So would I but I think we need to see the bigger picture here; the club has changed positively in so many ways since his arrival, even the attitude (to some extent it seems) of the owner. Okay so he's not superman, he's fallible but who isn't? Who would replace him?
In addition, who could have foreseen the Reda/Willis/Turner/Martin situation? These things happen of course but it has meant that TM has been unable to field a settled back four, playing in position, for almost the whole period of the slump. For me that earns him the benefit of the doubt.

skybluetony176 · Jan 31, 2016

usskyblue said:
It'd be nice if you addressed the question with an answer...

No chance. It's what he does. Never commits to an opinion 100% so he can't be wrong. Always happy to pour honey potion in others ears though so they can say it for him.

BackRoomRummermill · Jan 31, 2016

My expectation was and still is promotion . It went off the rails as soon as we signed cole , if we pay off all the free loaders and steady the ship we have a chance.

As son as we got Armstrong i said promotion on this forum

I have got to question TM why the OAP club change of tact when up until Dec we were on course

WTF is going on ? Why ?

Good luck to us all in our promotion push without the Zimmer frame squad

chiefdave · Jan 31, 2016

BackRoomRummermill said:
My expectation was and still is promotion . It went off the rails as soon as we signed cole , if we pay off all the free loaders and steady the ship we have a chance.

If we don't get promotion this season it will be very hard to stay positive. Lets face it next season we won't have Armstrong, replacing that number of goals will be hard, most likely won't have Maddison either and most seem to think Fleck is on his way.

Will need some very good signings or some of the youngsters to really step up if we're still in this crappy division next season.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 31, 2016

stupot07 said:
Having been top and in the top 1-3 places for over half a season, a top 10 finish is a failure.

And I worry about next season, we have so many out of contract at the end of the season and we will very likely lose our best players (Armstrong, Murphy, Madders, Fleck), so we will be having to replace rather than build on our best players.

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Objectively, top ten this season would bea success.

However...

My parallels are with Coleman's first full season. To my mind, that season was a success - we were competing at the right end for the first half a season, we had a half decent cup run until we came up against Chelsea... we got treated to a pre-fame Henderson. And sure, we dived at the end, but that was when there was nothing to play for.

And this is the problem, perception. That decline was, frankly, irrelevant in a points or position sense as we couldn't do anything from that point. But, the negative impression it left for the next season, the fact it (arguably) persuaded SISU they may as well cash in on players rather than back the manager in the close season, and the carry-ver into the next season where supporters' tolerance was lower as a result of a poor finish, can't be discounted.

What's disappointing to me, at the moment, is we've surrendered meekly in the cups, and apparently this was so we could focus on our primary goal of promotion. However... wouldn't it be great to have had a distraction from the league about now!

So top ten would be alright in a wider context of what we've done over the past 15 seasons. The downward momentum and perception would be worrying, however.

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