No. The alternative would have been no profit whatsoever going to CCC. Obviously a better deal than YB or SISU getting the CCC bit or liquidation.
Spot on.
No. The alternative would have been no profit whatsoever going to CCC. Obviously a better deal than YB or SISU getting the CCC bit or liquidation.
It's what was claimed in court yesterday, of course not mentioning that half the "profit" is from the CCC owned bit, and not taking into consideration whatever interest fees they are paying themselves for the loan they took out to give the loan to ACL.
Belongs in the "Spin" thread with the other stuff.
How do you know there is any profit?
Claimed in Court and in the council meetings. They borrowed at one rate and lent at a higher rate. Usually means profit. If the council have lied we can take action. Another JR?
So the profit could be £1 over 40 years couldn't it? Lets face it posters on here were creaming themselves that Coventry was getting £19 million over 40 years as extra revenue for the good old taxpayer.
They are not are they? Could be £1 and its not a lie is it? Oh and if ACL folds in 10 years what then?
What also about repair and maintenance over 40 years?
Not so good is it?
The profit on the loan going to CCC is an extra they wouldn't have had if YB had charged the interest. It is not much on a yearly basis and the loan was not made as by a bank - to make a profit, but as a parent company aiding a 50 per cent subsidiary being deliberately distressed by other parties conspiring to destroy it. Nothing to do with other matters such as depreciation which has to be accounted for with or without the famous loan.
So the profit could be £1 over 40 years couldn't it? Lets face it posters on here were creaming themselves that Coventry was getting £19 million over 40 years as extra revenue for the good old taxpayer.
They are not are they? Could be £1 and its not a lie is it? Oh and if ACL folds in 10 years what then?
What also about repair and maintenance over 40 years?
Not so good is it?
I'm struggling to see what you're getting at here. You seem to be saying that the Coventry tax payer is benefitting twice from the ricoh, half the profit from acl and on top of that all the interest from the loan. That sounds like 2 positives that CCC are generating on behalf of the tax payers but you seem to be making out that it's a CCC negative that's been spun into a CCC positive in the context presumably of the JR. Or am I missing something? If so what?
So the profit could be £1 over 40 years couldn't it? Lets face it posters on here were creaming themselves that Coventry was getting £19 million over 40 years as extra revenue for the good old taxpayer.
They are not are they? Could be £1 and its not a lie is it? Oh and if ACL folds in 10 years what then?
What also about repair and maintenance over 40 years?
Not so good is it?
You could be right, you could also be wrong. We'll have to wait to see what the judge says at the end of the month. Until then nothing is fact.
If ACL folds in 10 years then what? I guess that means as long as sisu are on the scene we're playing at suxfields for 10 more years.
How much profit is it?
I think that you maybe struggling.
I'm saying that the £19million "profit" from the interest on the loan is nothing like that, half of that would be coming from the CCC half of ACL(the other half from the Higgs side), £19million of potential profit wiped straight away from ACL.
Also as i said, this £19million "profit2 doesn't take account of whatever negative interest is being paid on the loan that CCC had to take out to make the loan to ACL.
I don't think that that interest rate has been revealed anywhere? Nor whether the £14million pounds would have been able to earn a better rate of interest than that given to ACL.
Basically the huge "profit" figure is pure spin.
I think I get what you're saying. Hopefully the judge clarifies this at the end of the month and we can all stop guessing.
With regards to the rates CCC pay on the loan to central government I'm sure I can remember someone posted a link on here to a government web page that explained it. Its a standard formula and no big secret if you know where to look for it IIRC.
Maybe someone else can help with this.
ouNot the point. CCC is not a bank. They are obliged to make a return on taxpayers money, but the reason for the loan is not primarily to make money. They saved ACL from the hostile attack from the "Queen of debt" ( as Joy was once described ) - that was the aim of the loan.
The judge won't say anything, my point is the statement the City gets £19 million interest payments is I suggest bollocks -- as it is not accounting for the interest paid on the loan.
You've seen the judges report already! Wow, you are well connected.
ou
The point is that the statement that £19 million of interest is generated for the taxpayer is spin. It is isn't it? You can duck and dive all you like but that is the fact. You don't know if there was a hostile attack -- that came from the same source that tried to dupe the taxpayers regarding the £19 million.
ou
The point is that the statement that £19 million of interest is generated for the taxpayer is spin. It is isn't it? You can duck and dive all you like but that is the fact. You don't know if there was a hostile attack -- that came from the same source that tried to dupe the taxpayers regarding the £19 million.
It is irrelevant in the final analysis -- just accept its spin
Everything said in court over the last few days is spin until the judge rules otherwise, which is at the end of the month I believe.
ou
The point is that the statement that £19 million of interest is generated for the taxpayer is spin. It is isn't it? You can duck and dive all you like but that is the fact. You don't know if there was a hostile attack -- that came from the same source that tried to dupe the taxpayers regarding the £19 million.
Simon Gilbert @TheSimonGilbert · Jun 11
Coun QC justifies length of £14.4m Council/ACL loan by saying council will earn £19.4m in interest alone over the 40 year term of the lease.
I think that you maybe struggling.
I'm saying that the £19million "profit" from the interest on the loan is nothing like that, half of that would be coming from the CCC half of ACL(the other half from the Higgs side), £19million of potential profit wiped straight away from ACL.
Also as i said, this £19million "profit2 doesn't take account of whatever negative interest is being paid on the loan that CCC had to take out to make the loan to ACL.
I don't think that that interest rate has been revealed anywhere? Nor whether the £14million pounds would have been able to earn a better rate of interest than that given to ACL.
Basically the huge "profit" figure is pure spin.
So are you saying that ACL are being charged over 9% per annum on the loan? I think not. The £19 million is interest generated by the loan and the statement was deceiving. Nothing to do with the judge but common sense.
So basically you are calling Simon Gilbert a liar, and lets be clear he has to report impartially when in court or he isn't covered for liable.
I'd be interested to hear Simon's response ..
So basically you are calling Simon Gilbert a liar, and lets be clear he has to report impartially when in court or he isn't covered for liable.
I'd be interested to hear Simon's response ..
He was never calling Simon Gilbert a liar, you'd have to be some sort of paranoiac to think that Mormon Jack.
What we doubt, and it's pretty obvious to anybody really, is that the statement from the CCC QC that the CCC is making £19.4million profit from the ACL loan is nothing more than spin and stretches disingenuosity to it's limits.
He was never calling Simon Gilbert a liar, you'd have to be some sort of paranoiac to think that Mormon Jack.
What we doubt, and it's pretty obvious to anybody really, is that the statement from the CCC QC that the CCC is making £19.4million profit from the ACL loan is nothing more than spin and stretches disingenuosity to it's limits.
He was never calling Simon Gilbert a liar, you'd have to be some sort of paranoiac to think that Mormon Jack.
What we doubt, and it's pretty obvious to anybody really, is that the statement from the CCC QC that the CCC is making £19.4million profit from the ACL loan is nothing more than spin and stretches disingenuosity to it's limits.
The Cov Telegraph states 'The council is due to get £19.6m in interest over the 41 years of the loan to ACL'. So it appears that there is no spin suggesting that it is £19m profit. I'm sure the Council QC will accept your apology.
So the CCC QC lied in court by stating a 'fact' that wasn't true? And anyway, the statement was clearly about 'interest', not 'profit' as you've termed it..
The Cov Telegraph states 'The council is due to get £19.6m in interest over the 41 years of the loan to ACL'. So it appears that there is no spin suggesting that it is £19m profit. I'm sure the Council QC will accept your apology.
Jack griffin says it is. Are you saying he is a gullible fool? The statement is designed to create a positive impression so no apology needed.
I'm not saying what ACL are being charged in interest at all.
Perhaps OSB would be kind enough to put the figures in layman's terms so we can understand the point you're trying to make in a clearer concise way.
I would say that because the judge is ruling on the arguments presented in court it has everything to do with him, otherwise why was he there?
It was a quote from the Council QC. As I said before, just because it's said in court, doesn't make it fact. I'm also not saying it isn't correct.
But it was definitely said in open court. That is a fact.
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