Fan that was banned has it overturned (1 Viewer)

cloughie · Jan 15, 2013

More than just poor policing .

originally arressted for being drunk and disorderly, yet the fan hadn't had a drink.

So that would suggest that the copper is either incompetent or dishonest, or even both.

Surely breaking the rules for not displaying his number along with dishonesty and/or incompetence should have warranted severe diciplinary action

LastGarrison · Jan 15, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
I know we dont know all the facts, but abuse to police officers shouldnt be tollerated. What sort of a message does this send to the kids? Attack officials and dont get banned? The justice system in this country is a joke

And the flip side is, are we saying that it is bad to break the Law..........unless you are a police officer?

blueflint · Jan 15, 2013

does it really matter

cloughie · Jan 15, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
I know we dont know all the facts, but abuse to police officers shouldnt be tollerated. What sort of a message does this send to the kids? Attack officials and dont get banned? The justice system in this country is a joke

Correct the law is a joke , the only attacking done in that incident was done by a police officer abusing his position of power.

The joke is that the policeman didn't get charged with assault.

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Jan 15, 2013

LastGarrison said:
And the flip side is, are we saying that it is bad to break the Law..........unless you are a police officer?

A lot of police officers are a**holes. My aunt was a police officer before she died so i know what kind of people can get into that profession, but at the end of the day they're law enforcers and we have to respect them and not assult them. Despite what police officers can do and espite a few of them being d**kheads, i can never and will never condone any assult on a police camera

hill83 · Jan 15, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
A lot of police officers are a**holes. My aunt was a police officer before she died so i know what kind of people can get into that profession, but at the end of the day they're law enforcers and we have to respect them and not assult them. Despite what police officers can do and espite a few of them being d**kheads, i can never and will never condone any assult on a police camera

My Aunt still is a police officer. But this isn't about respect.
The point here is no police officers were assaulted by the man in question.
He was. :facepalm:

covkid69 · Jan 15, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
A lot of police officers are a**holes. My aunt was a police officer before she died so i know what kind of people can get into that profession, but at the end of the day they're law enforcers and we have to respect them and not assult them. Despite what police officers can do and espite a few of them being d**kheads, i can never and will never condone any assult on a police camera

assault on a police camera

lordsummerisle · Jan 15, 2013

If the police can stitch up Andrew Mitchell, they can stitch up anybody.

A lawless mob, all the lies about Charles de Menezes were ridiculously disfgusting attempts to deflect blame from themselves, though many were willing to believe the "party line" on that one.

Rightly, if unfortunately, people don't really trust the police at all anymore, but at least with Plebgate poeple maybe starting to realise in the middle-upper echelons of society what the working classes(and football fans) have had to put up with for decades or more.

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
A lot of police officers are a**holes. My aunt was a police officer before she died so i know what kind of people can get into that profession, but at the end of the day they're law enforcers and we have to respect them and not assult them. Despite what police officers can do and espite a few of them being d**kheads, i can never and will never condone any assult on a police camera

So why should we respect police when they act like this? Add to the fact they have basically admitted (without actually apologising) they were wrong.

Respect works in both ways

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
If the police can stitch up Andrew Mitchell, they can stitch up anybody.

A lawless mob, all the lies about Charles de Menezes were ridiculously disfgusting attempts to deflect blame from themselves, though many were willing to believe the "party line" on that one.

Rightly, if unfortunately, people don't really trust the police at all anymore, but at least with Plebgate poeple maybe starting to realise in the middle-upper echelons of society what the working classes(and football fans) have had to put up with for decades or more.

Not too mention the homeless fella killed by the police in the may riots a few years back.

lordsummerisle · Jan 15, 2013

CUS Wyken said:
Not too mention the homeless fella killed by the police in the may riots a few years back.

Think somebody mentioned him earlier.

glancy89 · Jan 15, 2013

DH - Sky Blue said:
Regardless of whether identification numbers should be worn, the correct manner to address this is not through a violent brawl. If his ban has indeed been lifted then it's a disgrace.

If you was at that match and seen the incident you would not think it was a disgrace, the chap paid his entrance fee and had a banner voicing his opinion that the owners should be out for running club into the ground. The police were VERY heavy handed throwing people about and the fans stood up to them....well done them ensuring that chap can stay to see his team beat derby!

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Think somebody mentioned him earlier.

Many more in recent years as-well. In fact i remember reading a PDF of all crimes committed by the police. They are probably the largest criminal organisation in the country

Nick · Jan 15, 2013

I often see police speeding. It annoys me!

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

Nick said:
I often see police speeding. It annoys me!

When you get a spare few minutes, have a gander at this

Hence my largest crime syndicate comment - http://info.fmotl.com/PoliceList.pdf

Moff · Jan 15, 2013

CUS Wyken said:
Many more in recent years as-well. In fact i remember reading a PDF of all crimes committed by the police. They are probably the largest criminal organisation in the country

Yeah apart from all the criminals themselves:facepalm:

Wouldnt have put you down as a Daily Mail reader but your post sound like one of their well researched articles.

Moff · Jan 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
If the police can stitch up Andrew Mitchell, they can stitch up anybody.

A lawless mob, all the lies about Charles de Menezes were ridiculously disfgusting attempts to deflect blame from themselves, though many were willing to believe the "party line" on that one.

Rightly, if unfortunately, people don't really trust the police at all anymore, but at least with Plebgate poeple maybe starting to realise in the middle-upper echelons of society what the working classes(and football fans) have had to put up with for decades or more.

Yeah poor Andrew Mitchell. Of course he hasnt lied at all

Normally agree with your posts Lord but you and Wyken appear to have had a Daily Mail overload in my humble opinion.

The officers who dealt with a serious accident a friend of mine was in a couple of months ago, and a family members burglary, certainly didnt seem lawless to me, but then why not tar all coppers with the same brush whilst criticising them for apparently doing the same to all football fans?

I do though agree on this occasion the sitautaion should and could have been dealt with a lot better.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 15, 2013

CUS Wyken said:
Many more in recent years as-well. In fact i remember reading a PDF of all crimes committed by the police. They are probably the largest criminal organisation in the country

Do we actually need the police as it is? Many abuse their powers as people have mentioned and their effectiveness can be limited, for example, a few houses round mine got broken into, including a bike taken from my garden, we know who did it, I seen them walk into their house (larger story to it) and someone heard the convo of the 2 lads who I seen and no trouble had ever happened before they came, could the police make an arrest, no, too much unneeded beaurocracy. Very frustrating.

I also nearly got arrested for carrying a golf club around at 11 at night, it got confiscated and I was put in handcuffs even I could explain I had been playing golf down Allesely and we went back to my mates and 'chilled' and I was on my way back. Unnesscessary action and could've been avoided.

I am of course not taking the great work they do. In fact, am I actually blaming the police, or the beaurocracy?

Moff · Jan 15, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Do we actually need the police as it is? Many abuse their powers as people have mentioned and their effectiveness can be limited, for example, a few houses round mine got broken into, including a bike taken from my garden, we know who did, I seen them walk into their house (larger story to it) and someone heard the convo of the 2 lads who I seen and no trouble had ever happened before they came, could the police make an arrest, no, too much unneeded beaurocracy. Very frustrating.

I also nearly got arrested for carrying a golf club around at 11 at night, it got confiscated and I was put in handcuffs even I could explain I had been playing golf down Allesely and we went back to my mates and 'chilled' and I was on my way back. Unnesscessary action and could've been avoided.

I am of course not taking the great work they do. In fact, am I actually blaming the police, or the beaurocracy?

Jesus wept, no wonder the old bill think all fans are the same as if they ever read this thread they may suspect there is some fact in those thoughts.

Facts...your post lacks the full facts...and I assume this is the same full facts the old bill need to take a case to court. Well and getting past the CPS (Cant prosecute satan)

fernandopartridge · Jan 15, 2013

DH - Sky Blue said:
Come on, he didn't care at all about the identification number. He was just being flippant and argumentative because he was being told to calm down and didn't like it.

I hope they start banning mugs like you for Fuck all

fernandopartridge · Jan 15, 2013

Moff said:
Yeah poor Andrew Mitchell. Of course he hasnt lied at all

Normally agree with your posts Lord but you and Wyken appear to have had a Daily Mail overload in my humble opinion.

The officers who dealt with a serious accident a friend of mine was in a couple of months ago, and a family members burglary, certainly didnt seem lawless to me, but then why not tar all coppers with the same brush whilst criticising them for apparently doing the same to all football fans?

I do though agree on this occasion the sitautaion should and could have been dealt with a lot better.

Since when has the Daily Mail been anti police? Your post has zero credibility with that nonsense.

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 15, 2013

Moff said:
Jesus wept, no wonder the old bill think all fans are the same as if they ever read this thread they may suspect there is some fact in those thoughts.

Facts...your post lacks the full facts...and I assume this is the same full facts the old bill need to take a case to court. Well and getting past the CPS (Cant prosecute satan)

Hang on though Moff when I saw City play Swindon earlier in the season in Swindon there officers were diabolicle in dealing with the situation, my comments were even published later on the CT slating how poor I thought they were and I wasn't alone..

Unfortunately 5 times out of a 100 the police will react irrationaly or irresponsible to the situation for whatever reason, this is one of the five..

lordsummerisle · Jan 15, 2013

Moff said:
Yeah poor Andrew Mitchell. Of course he hasnt lied at all

Normally agree with your posts Lord but you and Wyken appear to have had a Daily Mail overload in my humble opinion.

The officers who dealt with a serious accident a friend of mine was in a couple of months ago, and a family members burglary, certainly didnt seem lawless to me, but then why not tar all coppers with the same brush whilst criticising them for apparently doing the same to all football fans?

I do though agree on this occasion the sitautaion should and could have been dealt with a lot better.

Not one to give support to any Tory, but the wholw Plebgate thing was pretty much a fabrication by the police.

The "concerned" member of public who reported the incident(not on any cameras obviously), was an off-duty police officer who wasn't there!

Think it's far more Daily Mail to accept unhesitatingly a police version of events because, "well, it's the police isn't it, why would they lie or falsify any evidence?".

Which of course the Daily Mail, Telegraph and Sun did with the Mitchell saga to pressure the government after Leveson.

Ashdown1 · Jan 15, 2013

What is it with this obsession with the Daily Mail from the usual suspects on here and other forums.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 15, 2013

When I went to see us at Leicester last season the police treatment was so OTT that it was more likely to incite trouble, rather than deter it. We got herded around the city centre like cattle and were barred from leaving the ground for a good while after, although home fans were allowed to have a go at us with impunity. Even in my relatively short experience as an away fan I've always found police and steward handling to be excessive-almost as though they want trouble to start as an excuse to bash a few heads.

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

Moff said:
Yeah poor Andrew Mitchell. Of course he hasnt lied at all

Normally agree with your posts Lord but you and Wyken appear to have had a Daily Mail overload in my humble opinion.

The officers who dealt with a serious accident a friend of mine was in a couple of months ago, and a family members burglary, certainly didnt seem lawless to me, but then why not tar all coppers with the same brush whilst criticising them for apparently doing the same to all football fans?

I do though agree on this occasion the sitautaion should and could have been dealt with a lot better.

I'm more eluding to the fact the police on a matchday show zero respect to fans and abuse there 'powers' i also mentioned and linked to a pdf which shows how many officers also abuse there powers away from the football ground. I'm not saying all do, i said many do which backs this up and many of them crimes are serious.

A football fan has his rights basically taken off them when they step foot in the ground.

Between over zealous stewarding and heavy handed policing this situation escalated and anyone who believes the fella and OUR fans were to blame on that day then they are very mistaken.

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

Ashdown1 said:
What is it with this obsession with the Daily Mail from the usual suspects on here and other forums.

Dunno but i don't even read it so there theory goes out the window. Unlike others some of us can have our own thoughts (Rightly or wrongly) without the use of the daily mail or any-other paper for that matter.

torchomatic · Jan 15, 2013

Why? I've been going to football matches for forty years. Never been arrested or spoken to by a policeman or steward. It's OK blaming the police but something has to pique their interest in an individual in the first place.

CUS Wyken said:
A football fan has his rights basically taken off them when they step foot in the ground.

Between over zealous stewarding and heavy handed policing this situation escalated and anyone who believes the fella and OUR fans were to blame on that day then they are very mistaken.

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

torchomatic said:
Why? I've been going to football matches for forty years. Never been arrested or spoken to by a policeman or steward. It's OK blaming the police but something has to pique their interest in an individual in the first place.

Hark at Mr clean here.

Simple question - Do you believe the police were right in there actions on that day?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

torchomatic · Jan 15, 2013

No, I'm not saying I'm a Mr Clean and if the copper wasn't wearing his number then fair enough. However, I don't think it's all one-way and as black and white as "the police are picking on us", etc.

CUS Wyken said:
Hark at Mr clean here.

Simple question - Do you believe the police were right in there actions on that day?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

CUS Wyken · Jan 15, 2013

torchomatic said:
No, I'm not saying I'm a Mr Clean and if the copper wasn't wearing his number then fair enough. However, I don't think it's all one-way and as black and white as "the police are picking on us", etc.

I'd say many on here will have had experiences of heavy handed police actions and over zealous stewarding who are law abiding citizens.

Still swerved the question i see. The police were bang out of order that day and they know they were wrong hence not appealing against the charges been dropped. Plenty of other cases up and down the country of similar incidents, not an isolated incident.

SBS · Jan 15, 2013

I felt very sorry for the chap in question at the time. In a way, he probably had a lot more enjoyable Saturdays last year at home than I did at the Ricoh! There were people in that video behaving far worse than him.

On a slightly related note, does anyone else find it frustrating the way that there seems to be a group of five coppers and about twenty stewards stood at the bottom of block 14? I'm not saying they shouldn't be there, but why not have them all in the stands and move the away fans two blocks closer and create an atmosphere? They're being paid either way, most of them just stand there and watch the game!!

I also find (particularly at the grounds in Yorkshire for some reason) that the police antagonise fans by recording them at the front of the stand. It's probably being recorded on CCTV, but having a copper stood there with a camera does nothing but wind up fans.

shropshirecov · Jan 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
If the police can stitch up Andrew Mitchell, they can stitch up anybody.

A lawless mob, all the lies about Charles de Menezes were ridiculously disfgusting attempts to deflect blame from themselves, though many were willing to believe the "party line" on that one.

Rightly, if unfortunately, people don't really trust the police at all anymore, but at least with Plebgate poeple maybe starting to realise in the middle-upper echelons of society what the working classes(and football fans) have had to put up with for decades or more.

Not one to normally agree with you Lord, but there's some truth in there. I recently read an article about the hillsborough cover up. Basically saying football demographics had changed since 1989, middle classes are now larger in number at football and less likely to put up with the sort of treatment and attitdue of contempt that police treat working class football fans with.

A lad I used to work with split up with his girlfriend and there was some bad feeling, the next fella she went out with was a copper who systematically tried to ruin his life, the scary thing was how other old bill closed rank and backed him up.

DH - Sky Blue · Jan 15, 2013

I've just been reading through the comments on here, experiencing a mixture of amusement, uninterest and disbelief. I will now try and address some points.

1)

Otis said:
Err, you sure you are in possession of the full facts there, DH?

Pretty sure that the argument started because the PC wouldn't give his badge number and when the fan kept asking for it the PC got aggressive and tried to remove him from the ground.

Then the 'brawl' happened.

The police approached the man in the first place because he was loud-mouthed and deemed to be causing a disturbance. Whether you agree with that or not, police have a right to tell him to be quiet or to leave the ground in extreme cases. Failure to obey police instructions is an offence whether you agree with it or not. As I've previously pointed out, the man didn't care in the slightest that an identification number wasn't on show, he was just saying this to antagonize and detract from his original behaviour in the first place. Whether he was violent or not, he started the whole saga by refusing to follow a policemens orders. If it is indeed illegal for a policemen to not wear an identification number then this can be dealt with separately and after the event.

2)

CUS Wyken said:
Why??? The whole saga started because

1) one officer was not wearing the number (Which by law they should)
2) The police were Heavy handed for no reason
3) the fella in question was originally arrested for drunk and disorderly then it materialised he didn't have a drink before the game so the police put another charge on him.

When fans see the police randomly picking on fellow fans what do you expect?

The fact the crown prosecution can't say why the case is dropped speaks volumes. They know there in the wrong.

How you can say the ban getting lifted is a disgrace??

I've just covered number 1 and number 2. Number 3 is laughable. If the man was acting in a way that police suspected him to be drunk and it turns out he was completely sober, that says more about his character more than anything. I expect fans not to run down 25 aisles just to throw punches and push people to the ground. To refer to the ban getting lifted as a 'disgrace' was simply in the nature of overturning a valid decision. It sets a precedent for the same behaviour to be used again and no punishment be taken.

3)

hill83 said:
You should take those solid facts back to the crown court and reopen the case then Columbo.

I don't see your point, but ascertain it was an attention-seeking comment. Seems to have worked.

4)

glancy89 said:
If you was at that match and seen the incident you would not think it was a disgrace, the chap paid his entrance fee and had a banner voicing his opinion that the owners should be out for running club into the ground. The police were VERY heavy handed throwing people about and the fans stood up to them....well done them ensuring that chap can stay to see his team beat derby!

Whether you agree with it or not it was widely known about the banner situation so the man should have realised it would be confiscated.

5)

fernandopartridge said:
I hope they start banning mugs like you for Fuck all

Concise and completely justified. Strangely not even your worst post.

6)

torchomatic said:
Why? I've been going to football matches for forty years. Never been arrested or spoken to by a policeman or steward. It's OK blaming the police but something has to pique their interest in an individual in the first place.

Sense.

hill83 · Jan 15, 2013

DH - Sky Blue said:
I don't see your point, but ascertain it was an attention-seeking comment. Seems to have worked.

You don't know that he wasn't interested about the number not being on show, which you have stated again above. That was my point.

This one is attention seeking.

Edit: Because I'm not agreeing with you doesn't mean I agree with what everyone else was saying.
A lot of it is complete waffle.

Fan that was banned has it overturned (1 Viewer)

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