FAO the ‘Thorn is a miracle worker’ lot on here (2 Viewers)

Waldorf · Nov 23, 2011

"WANTED: New manager for struggling football team. Must be able to finish the season in mid-table at least. Failing that, avoiding relegation may just about be satisfactory. Must be able to work with young (some extremely young) players and one or two who can't be arsed. Will be required to play 4-4-2 despite the fact there are no wingers in the squad. (well, none that are any good). Will have no money to spend, and can expect to have his best players (and his top goal-scorer) sold without consultation. Chief Scouts need not apply."

Mumford & Son said, "We expect to be able to choose from a wide field of experienced managers."

Bloodnut1964 · Nov 23, 2011

Okay I have a few questions if anyone would like to answer them.

1. Where have we finished in the Championship the last few seasons?
2. Have the squads we have had been better or worse than the last few seasons?
3.Where realistically do you expect us to finish based on the amount of money we have spent?

Sensible answers only please.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Waldorf said:
"WANTED: New manager for struggling football team. Must be able to finish the season in mid-table at least. Failing that, avoiding relegation may just about be satisfactory. Must be able to work with young (some extremely young) players and one or two who can't be arsed. Will be required to play 4-4-2 despite the fact there are no wingers in the squad. (well, none that are any good). Will have no money to spend, and can expect to have his best players (and his top goal-scorer) sold without consultation. Chief Scouts need not apply."

Mumford & Son said, "We expect to be able to choose from a wide field of experienced managers."

Two things.

We sacked a manager last season who had us top 6 at Christmas. Boothroyd couldn;t bring in any players due to the transfer embargo and we lost players through suspensions and injuries and we never recovered. People were happy when we sacked Boothroyd because of the style of football. In comes Thorn, we win 3 games then all of sudden he's the best thing since sliced bread.

Thorn is a nice bloke but not a manager. If this was Boothroyd, Reid, Coleman, Dowie etc.. in charge you would all be calling for there head.

Secondly, do you honestly think the diamond formation is working?

Colonel Mustard · Nov 23, 2011

Otis said:
Don't see how it could be any worse and simply saying that Thorn is doing his best doesn't really cut it does it. Is he doing the best that anyone could do?

That is the bizarre line that has taken hold around here. It's just masochistic - "nobody could do any better, we're doomed, the sooner we go into admin the better" etc. Nobody has to like the current situation, but the lack of fight is surprising.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
Okay I have a few questions if anyone would like to answer them.

1. Where have we finished in the Championship the last few seasons?
2. Have the squads we have had been better or worse than the last few seasons?
3.Where realistically do you expect us to finish based on the amount of money we have spent?

Sensible answers only please.

Okay I have a few questions if anyone would like to answer them.

1. Where have we finished in the Championship the last few seasons?
That answers itself

2. Have the squads we have had been better or worse than the last few seasons?
Starting 11 is on par with recent years, squad maybe not

3.Where realistically do you expect us to finish based on the amount of money we have spent?

What has spending money got to do with it all? Other teams in the past have spent little money and stayed up. Other teams have spent loads of money and went down. You bring the best out of what youve got to work with. Simple as that, he hasn't.
Sensible answers only please.

hackneyfox · Nov 23, 2011

covkid64 said:
Thorn is a man trying to do the best he can but let's not forget that he has experienced men around him who are very well respected within football! QUOTE]

Who are these experienced men who are well respected?
Are they not the same group that have been there for the last 4 managers?
If so, are you sstarting to see a link?

Thorn needs to go, his record is atrocious, he brought most of these players in and they don't want to play for him.

Personally I think he could be your best manager since wgs.

Moff · Nov 23, 2011

God it comes to something when I agree with the knicker stitcher, but Hackney is right, Thorn is just not good enough, nor is Harrison as coach. Yes he is a nnice guy, and yes SISU are screwing him, but let that not cloud the facts that he is not getting the results, and we need them.

His record is appalling and if any other manager of previous years, had such a poor record we would be hounding them out.

Yes i agree he has little or no support but these are his players, players he has scouted who frankly are not up to it, and need a kick up the arse and new input from someone who can get more out of them as they are currently underachieving.

This needs to be done soon before we are 10+ points adrift.

Only my opinion of course

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

hackneyfox said:
covkid64 said:

Thorn is a man trying to do the best he can but let's not forget that he has experienced men around him who are very well respected within football! QUOTE]

Who are these experienced men who are well respected?
Are they not the same group that have been there for the last 4 managers?
If so, are you sstarting to see a link?

Thorn needs to go, his record is atrocious, he brought most of these players in and they don't want to play for him.

Personally I think he could be your best manager since wgs.

Click to expand...

First and last time but i agree with this scummer

Waldorf · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Two things.

We sacked a manager last season who had us top 6 at Christmas. Boothroyd couldn;t bring in any players due to the transfer embargo and we lost players through suspensions and injuries and we never recovered. People were happy when we sacked Boothroyd because of the style of football. In comes Thorn, we win 3 games then all of sudden he's the best thing since sliced bread.

Thorn is a nice bloke but not a manager. If this was Boothroyd, Reid, Coleman, Dowie etc.. in charge you would all be calling for there head.

Secondly, do you honestly think the diamond formation is working?

First, I don't believe there's anything in the advert about replacing "The best thing since sliced bread" - not a job requirement.
Second, performance of previous managers has nothing to do with it. We're filling a hypothetical vacancy here.
Third, to move out of "advert mode", the diamond is just about the best formation for the players we've got. Our best player is an archetypal defensive midfielder, we have no wingers (if you think McSheffrey is a winger, you're deluded), and we don't have the goal-scorers to play one up-front. That rules out 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, and just about everything else apart from 5-3-2, which in our situation is too defensive.
Added to which, from what we are told, it's the formation the players themselves feel happiest with. And actually, whatever the results, I do actually think we play better football than we did under Boothroyd or Coleman. At least Thorne has his principles right.
So let's add another couple of requirements: "Must be able to persuade players to play in, and make a success of, roles they neither know nor feel comfortable in" and "Above all, MUST be able to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear of a squad."

torchomatic · Nov 23, 2011

Now for me it's Harrison. The common denomenator with the last crop of failed managers at Coventry City.

Moff said:
God it comes to something when I agree with the knicker stitcher, but Hackney is right, Thorn is just not good enough, nor is Harrison as coach. Yes he is a nnice guy, and yes SISU are screwing him, but let that not cloud the facts that he is not getting the results, and we need them.

His record is appalling and if any other manager of previous years, had such a poor record we would be hounding them out.

Yes i agree he has little or no support but these are his players, players he has scouted who frankly are not up to it, and need a kick up the arse and new input from someone who can get more out of them as they are currently underachieving.

This needs to be done soon before we are 10+ points adrift.

Only my opinion of course

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Waldorf said:
First, I don't believe there's anything in the advert about replacing "The best thing since sliced bread" - not a job requirement.
Second, performance of previous managers has nothing to do with it. We're filling a hypothetical vacancy here.
Third, to move out of "advert mode", the diamond is just about the best formation for the players we've got. Our best player is an archetypal defensive midfielder, we have no wingers (if you think McSheffrey is a winger, you're deluded), and we don't have the goal-scorers to play one up-front. That rules out 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, and just about everything else apart from 5-3-2, which in our situation is too defensive.
Added to which, from what we are told, it's the formation the players themselves feel happiest with. And actually, whatever the results, I do actually think we play better football than we did under Boothroyd or Coleman. At least Thorne has his principles right.
So let's add another couple of requirements: "Must be able to persuade players to play in, and make a success of, roles they neither know nor feel comfortable in" and "Above all, MUST be able to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear of a squad."

The diamond is the only formation possible? The players enjoy that formation? Thorn has his principles right?

3 very strange comments

Formation. Diamond is not working. I’d go with wing backs considering most of our goals come from the wide. My starting 11 would be Murphy, Wood, Keogh, Craine. Hussey Christie as wing backs. Deegan Clingan and Bigi making more forward runs, he wasted defensively. Platt and McDonald up front.

The players certainly don’t like the formation, results prove that.

His principles are what? Play neat football in our own half and have no creatiuvity in the final 3rd? Great principles, i keep hearing entertaining football. 15 goals in 18 games is very entertaining. I love his principles, there doing us wonders aint they

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

Given that the object of playing is to win how can anyone say that the diamond is the preferred formation and it is successful. The proof is in the results that it is not

We dont have the players to play it. It relies on the fullbacks getting up and down the line, ours are hesitant in doing that because they lack the cover. It relies on the player at the tip of the diamond being quick, strong and clever so far no show on that overall. it relies on the tip of the diamond dropping back to fill the damn great hole in the middle of the park and defending - again no show. It relies on good movement from the front two, that doesnt mean reacting to balls after they have been played. It relies on the team working together and supporting each other not a team leaving the fullbacks exposed and over worked. It relies on the ball being passed well quickly and progressively - we have loads of possession ..... in our half where it only hurts us when we lose it. Apart from that and a few other things then yes it works and entirely suits our squad :facepalm:

I agree we should be playing a passing game, yes that is easier on the eye. That part of the principle is fine but the other key is to be effective. We are not because we play the pretty football in our half then lump it forward giving the forwards poor service and a 50:50 chance of winning it. 16 goals in 18 matches tells the story...... the object of the game is to put that round bag of air into the stringy net thing guarded by the opposition more time than they put it into ours - an object we fail to do consistently. As a team we dont achieve the objectives playing the way we do.

Grendel · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
Okay I have a few questions if anyone would like to answer them.

1. Where have we finished in the Championship the last few seasons?
2. Have the squads we have had been better or worse than the last few seasons?
3.Where realistically do you expect us to finish based on the amount of money we have spent?

Sensible answers only please.

I assume you are a Thorn supporter from your questions. Why are you asking these questions instead of focusing on the positives that Thorn brings to the role? I wonder why......

On Q2 I actually think some of the squads have been dire. McCallister had woeful players at his disposal. Loans and cast-offs mostly. Also look at our squad in the early 90's Derby, Morgan, Rennie......

Sensible answer from you is what does the manager do to demonstrate your belief in him?

Bloodnut1964 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Okay I have a few questions if anyone would like to answer them.

1. Where have we finished in the Championship the last few seasons?
That answers itself

2. Have the squads we have had been better or worse than the last few seasons?
Starting 11 is on par with recent years, squad maybe not

3.Where realistically do you expect us to finish based on the amount of money we have spent?

What has spending money got to do with it all? Other teams in the past have spent little money and stayed up. Other teams have spent loads of money and went down. You bring the best out of what youve got to work with. Simple as that, he hasn't.
Sensible answers only please.

As I said earlier in another post how do you expect us to do better than previous seasons with a weaker squad and no money to do anything about it.
So in answer to your question "what has spending money got to do with it" a lot when you have had every decent asset stripped from your team with nothing given in return.

You still never answered the question by the way.

Grendel · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
As I said earlier in another post how do you expect us to do better than previous seasons with a weaker squad and no money to do anything about it.
So in answer to your question "what has spending money got to do with it" a lot when you have had every decent asset stripped from your team with nothing given in return.

You still never answered the question by the way.

Still no mention of any positives Thorn brings to the role I notice.....

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
As I said earlier in another post how do you expect us to do better than previous seasons with a weaker squad and no money to do anything about it.
So in answer to your question "what has spending money got to do with it" a lot when you have had every decent asset stripped from your team with nothing given in return.

You still never answered the question by the way.

As i said, the starting 11 is not far off previous years. The squad is an issue i agree.

What question didn't i answer?

covkid64 · Nov 23, 2011

U

Mumford and Daughter said:
No one knows the answer but i know Thorn isnt the man for the job. I suport the team when im there but forgive me if im wrong but this is a forum for fans to express there thoughts isn't?

Mumford yes this is a forum for fans to express opinions and I fully support your right to do so! But not once have you put up any suggestions as to an alternative to Thorn! Some of us have been to every home game this season and dispite the results have seen some good performances and much more positive football compared to the kind of football that was played under boothroyd and coleman!

Bloodnut1964 · Nov 23, 2011

kduffy said:
I assume you are a Thorn supporter from your questions. Why are you asking these questions instead of focusing on the positives that Thorn brings to the role? I wonder why......

On Q2 I actually think some of the squads have been dire. McCallister had woeful players at his disposal. Loans and cast-offs mostly. Also look at our squad in the early 90's Derby, Morgan, Rennie......

Sensible answer from you is what does the manager do to demonstrate your belief in him?

I am a Thorn supporter yes.
I think the man deserves a medal to remain so positive after the hand he has been dealt by SISU.
Why have I belief in him you ask, Answer is plain and simple, he is CCFC thru and thru and really doubt if Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger or any other top manager would do any better with the squad he has got to work with.
Now let me pose another question please, if we got rid of AT, do you really think we would have loads of applicants for the job who are proven miracle workers, I doubt it very much.
You can roll shit in as much sugar as you want but it still won't taste like a doughnut!!
We're a struggling team/Club and sacking the manager again just isn't going to help matters at all is it?

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Our starting 11 however is not the 23rd worst 11 in the league.

Yes it is....

Bloodnut1964 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
As i said, the starting 11 is not far off previous years. The squad is an issue i agree.

What question didn't i answer?

You didn't answer the question where do you expect us to finish given the amount of money we have spent?
Instead you chose to side step it and answer it with another question.

Fans need to get real on here

ccfc2011 · Nov 23, 2011

Are squad is weak the worst squad we have had since being in championship in 2001.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

but has the football been effective ? Have the "performances" been successful? There have been as many bad performances as good and most have been mediocre (often play well one half awful the other). You see i dont see that much positive football.... i see plenty of pretty football in our half or in middle of pitch but that to me isnt positive football...... we dont risk, we dont get beyond, we are slow in movement & thought.......... yes i prefer a passing game but it has to achieve - we dont as it stands

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
You didn't answer the question where do you expect us to finish given the amount of money we have spent?
Instead you chose to side step it and answer it with another question.

Fans need to get real on here

Watford, Bristol city, Doncaster, Millwall, Burnley, Derby i believe are on par with us.

So i believe our usual 20th position should be capable. Our team has proved it can play to a high standard but it don’t on a regular basis. This is down to the manager to motivate the players.

We tend to play well for 30 mins and then fade away.

So to answer your question i feel we should be competing with these teams not been 6 points adrift before December.

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

ccfc2011 said:
Are squad is weak the worst squad we have had since being in championship in 2001.

This team is no worse then when we had likes of Colin Hawkins, McKenzie, Kyle etc...

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

stupot07 said:
Yes it is....

You honestly believe Watford, Bristol city, Doncaster, Millwall, Burnley, Derby starting 11 is better then ours?

I disagree,

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
You honestly believe Watford, Bristol city, Doncaster, Millwall, Burnley, Derby starting 11 is better then ours?

I disagree,

How many of those teams are having to play 3 teenagers who are in their first season in the first team?

Doncaster? - diouf, chimbonda, etc

dazzled2u · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
Okay I have a few questions if anyone would like to answer them.

1. Where have we finished in the Championship the last few seasons?
2. Have the squads we have had been better or worse than the last few seasons?
3.Where realistically do you expect us to finish based on the amount of money we have spent?

1. Ever lower as squad quality has decreased part from one season of optimism - plus the Championship is more competitive now!
2. This is the worst squad we have had in the Championship - 4 of the best players (the spine) left from last year and no real replacements
3. Where we are now, I said it at the before a ball was kicked that if we didn't replace players we wouldn't survive in this league

dazzled2u · Nov 23, 2011

We are the only team in the league without a loan player!

Yes I believe we have one of the weakest teams in the league and one of the least experienced managers and together that doesn't make for success.

Doncaster are now in talks with Zenden!

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

"really doubt if Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger or any other top manager would do any better with the squad he has got to work with".

I reckon given their vast experience, knowledge, management & motivation skills not to mention their coaching credentials (nearly all of which AT does not have) that they would be very disappointed if they couldnt. Personally dont accept that there is only one way with this squad and thats AT's way. Certainly you put a top manager in his place and the buzz from having such a man in charge would improve the team performance. It isnt all about money otherwise championship or lower teams would never get to finals or semi finals etc. To take what you say as true puts AT on a level with them ........ really ? I dont think so

Mumford and Daughter · Nov 23, 2011

stupot07 said:
How many of those teams are having to play 3 teenagers who are in their first season in the first team?

Doncaster? - diouf, chimbonda, etc

3 teenagers who are more then holding there own. More senior players have been my issue.

Willie Eckerslike · Nov 23, 2011

I agree with you, Torchy. While I can see the reason behind the evergrowing concerns about Thorn, I cannot understand why Steve Harrison, the only ever present underpinning three consecutive failing regimes, escapes any criticism or culpability.

skybluejelly · Nov 23, 2011

he may not be able to turn water into wine but he has certainly made a lot of us whine..
i know he lacks experience but he was part of a wimbledon team that was all about motivation and not skill,like most teams they respond to results and the fact is we are very low on confidence,this has been the case for years the fact we have not come from behind for about 3 years is shocking,maybee we need a motivational speaker..like the bender uri geller .it would at least raise a smile ,they might even think he was a proper miracle worker

Bloodnut1964 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Watford, Bristol city, Doncaster, Millwall, Burnley, Derby i believe are on par with us.

So i believe our usual 20th position should be capable. Our team has proved it can play to a high standard but it don’t on a regular basis. This is down to the manager to motivate the players.

We tend to play well for 30 mins and then fade away.

So to answer your question i feel we should be competing with these teams not been 6 points adrift before December.

As I said earlier some of the fans on here need to get real, what you have just said is a joke!!

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
3 teenagers who are more then holding there own. More senior players have been my issue.

There's a difference between young player holding his own and positively affecting a game for a sustained period. Add to that they pretty much run out of steam after an hour and then mistakes happen. I'm sorry but in a better team they wouldn't be starting week in week out.

TheParsonsHose · Nov 23, 2011

I doubt many managers have kept their jobs with that sort of record (2 wins in 18)..........we must make do though, our current board IMO have no interest in changing players let alone managers. It's shit and my club is making its way to Division 1 full steam ahead.

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