FAO the ‘Thorn is a miracle worker’ lot on here (1 Viewer)

WillieStanley · Nov 23, 2011

Whilst I agree, part of the issue is the inexperience of our manager, I can't get my head around as to why people are soley focusing the blame on him. He's as much Alex Ferguson as he is Terry Butcher... The thing is, like most other things in life, it is a combination of factors which have lead to us being where we are in the table. Thorn will see out his contract, he ain't going anywhere... even if you do fancy giving Carsley a go. He has as much experience as Thorn and will have as much, if not less to work with. Why don't we nurture Carsley? I'm convinced he has the potential to be a top manager, his leadership qualities spoke for themselves last season. Thorn is our manager and that's it, I'm afraid.

You can't get blood out of a stone... no matter how much you "motivate" it. I'm sure if Thorn had more experience things would be a little better... but only a little.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 23, 2011

I dont think most people are blaming just AT williestanley. Most of the comments identify the issues they have with him but no one is blaming just him. Some folk seem to take a criticism of him as blaming AT for everything - not the case. Like everyone else the guy has good points and bad points it is i suppose a calculation of whether the good points add more than the negatives. In the end it is just opinion to which each are entitled (though you wouldnt think so from some of the comments made particularly from those supporting AT). His performance isnt all down to lack of money and SISU is the bottom line of what is being said

ohitsaidwalker king power · Nov 23, 2011

If AT is given the boot... which proven manager at this level: 1. Is available? 2. Would want the job? I cant think of many. Dave Jones might.. but like all managers he'd want cash to strengthen... which we haven't got...and so the circle goes....unless there is a huge cash injection (please god)...for me stick with the devil we know? If it means we go down, unsavoury as it will be, so be it, wont change my love for the club.

Otis · Nov 23, 2011

People are not blaming AT for everything. As has been said, he has done the best job he can do.

I really don't think we need to change that much in order to be able to pick up more points.

1. Work on movement. Pass and move. At the moment we are passing the ball to feet. Lots of one touch football that doesn't get anywhere. Now usually in one touch passing football you get plenty of 1-2's. How many 1-2's are we playing? A pass, move into space, receive the return pass. Ours seem to be like the Chuckle Brothers, to me to you, to me, to you, to me ........... most of it in our own half.

We are too static. We can rectify this on the training field. Nowt to do with how big the squad is and how good the players are. The fact is we have players in this team who can pass! Why else are we playing the passing game we are deploying? Baker, Deegan, Clingan, Bigi, Thomas, Keogh,Sheff, Hussey can all pass the ball.

All we need to do is to carrying on passing the ball but pass the ball and then move into space to receive the return ball, hence moving up the field in the process. There is simply too much ball to feet in this system.

2. Just close the gap between the front two and the midfield behind them. Get them playing closer together when we are on the attack and we will create more chances and this should then transpire into more goals. Again this could be deployed by working on the training pitch.

I think if we just do these two simple things we will have a lot more success. Thorn has introduced passing football and we have proved that we can pass the ball. What we need to do now is to utilise space and get the midfield pushing up to support the strikers.

Grendel · Nov 23, 2011

Bloodnut1964 said:
I am a Thorn supporter yes.
I think the man deserves a medal to remain so positive after the hand he has been dealt by SISU.
Why have I belief in him you ask, Answer is plain and simple, he is CCFC thru and thru and really doubt if Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger or any other top manager would do any better with the squad he has got to work with.
Now let me pose another question please, if we got rid of AT, do you really think we would have loads of applicants for the job who are proven miracle workers, I doubt it very much.
You can roll shit in as much sugar as you want but it still won't taste like a doughnut!!
We're a struggling team/Club and sacking the manager again just isn't going to help matters at all is it?

We would have loads of applicants - none could do any worse. That said I give up when people start saying Thorn can do a job as well as Ferguson, Wenger etc. So 20 years in the game with medals galore counts for nothing. So what is Thorns strengths - "he is CCFC thru and thru" - in other words nothing of any tangible note. Actually he isn't he is SISU through and through and knows where his bread is buttered.
If he is that good (though not in any of your posts have you indicated any strengths) why does he not go as he would walk into another job straight away. Mancini would be terrified is good old AT becomes available (or Sir Alex perhaps).
Sorry but it all sounds a bit desparate to me.

WillieStanley · Nov 23, 2011

Well it sounds to me as if there are one or two people who believe replacing Thorn will solve all of our problems... Most of us know, it wont.

For some reason I feel a bit protective of him (odd). I just don't want him to become a fall guy when the problems are so much deeper.

Grendel · Nov 23, 2011

He won't. SISU will keep him for ever especially if people like him. Irony is only way to keep him is to keep SISU. No other board would tolerate the inpetitude.

Otis · Nov 23, 2011

Maybe then getting rid of Harrison and getting Carsley alongside is the answer. Harrison has been here through all of the recent past manager failings.

ccfctommy · Nov 23, 2011

The question is will a change the manager make any significant difference?

I really don't think so.

Otis · Nov 23, 2011

Will a change the manager make any significant difference? Who knows. We can see all of Thorn's failings though. They are as clear as day.

I don't want him out. I want him to rectify the things that are wrong and can be rectified.

wingy · Nov 23, 2011

The eternal revolving door ,worked so well for ten years now ,has'nt it?

Colonel Mustard · Nov 23, 2011

The door might not have revolved so much if they hadn't sacked Black.

torchomatic · Nov 23, 2011

And still bottom of the league...

stupot07 said:
Doncaster? - diouf, chimbonda, etc

curlyc_ · Nov 23, 2011

imo thorn should have at least by now have tried cyrus on the right wing with keogh at right back giving us some much needed width in the final third. keogh was really good last season bombing forward overlapping etc and it would allow us to play 442. the diamond doesnt always work results prove that.

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

curlyc_ said:
imo thorn should have at least by now have tried cyrus on the right wing with keogh at right back giving us some much needed width in the final third. keogh was really good last season bombing forward overlapping etc and it would allow us to play 442. the diamond doesnt always work results prove that.

I don't think Cyrus could play right wing, he is actually meant to be a centre back. Cyrus is great running from deep when he can get a head of steam going but as soon as his in a standing start against a fullback he struggles. Alan Hutton is a full back that likes getting forward an overlapping - its not working for the Villa.

Macca · Nov 23, 2011

This Andy Thorn situation is the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced as a city fan.

He seems to have elevated himself amongst the fans purely because.

He has been shafted by SISU
Who else would want to the job?
The revolving door policy hasn't worked before.

What footballing reasons are there?

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Macca said:
This Andy Thorn situation is the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced as a city fan.

He seems to have elevated himself amongst the fans purely because.

He has been shafted by SISU
Who else would want to the job?
The revolving door policy hasn't worked before.

What footballing reasons are there?

The players are shite and we have a much worse squad than the one that finished 18th last year. Perhaps people have accepted that we are going down and there's very little thats going to stop it?

Colonel Mustard · Nov 23, 2011

stupot07 said:
The players are shite and we have a much worse squad than the one that finished 18th last year. Perhaps people have accepted that we are going down and there's very little thats going to stop it?

But why attempt nothing? All the talk of wanting the club to die and imminent relegation (it's November) sounds an awful lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

ps1948 · Nov 23, 2011

I can't believe that it took until page 8 for anyone to point the finger at Steve "fully qualified coach, highly respected, done it all, blah, blah" Harrison, who has served the Club so well under each of the previous 3 or 4 (?) managers before Thorn. Why is he still here?

I really wanted Thorn to succeed, and enjoyed his style of play at the end of last season, even though we didn't win that many. I then thought that he might build a bit of a Dunkirk spirit with the remaining players for this season, but the failure of SISU to back him up didn't help one bit.

However, my reservations have been heightened by instances such as his dealings with Fat Freddie - how can you supervise a complete pre-season without realising that a fat lazy bastard wasn't doing anything, then send him off "to get fit" and finally freeze him out completely, although letting him milk the Club for his wages every week....

And, although I thought that picking the same starting 11 for last night was commendable, I can't see how he failed to notice that Christie was knackered again by the 60th minute, and didn't sub him.....one of the texters to CWR suggested that he be asked why when he was interviewed - but as usual, the sycophantic CWR man could only ask the usual rubbish questions!

If he does go, he could always join the former CCFC managers club who regularly appear on TV as evaluators - as they are all experts on football!!

Skybluefaz · Nov 23, 2011

Its the board that needs to change not the manager. If he was given a few quid to spend and we were in the same position then I wouldnt argue, but to suggest anyone viable could do better is asking for more trouble at the minute AT is one of the constants the players can rely on and that is much needed.

Macca · Nov 23, 2011

stupot07 said:
The players are shite and we have a much worse squad than the one that finished 18th last year. Perhaps people have accepted that we are going down and there's very little thats going to stop it?

but my problem is that some people in one breath say " We played well, we were robbed by referee, bad luck, tea lady" but then in the next breath "Thorn has nothing to work with"

Colonel Mustard · Nov 23, 2011

Skybluefaz said:
Its the board that needs to change not the manager. If he was given a few quid to spend and we were in the same position then I wouldnt argue, but to suggest anyone viable could do better is asking for more trouble at the minute AT is one of the constants the players can rely on and that is much needed.

What's the point of a constant if we are 5 points,-7 goals, and one game ahead of all of our competitors - in November. If that 'constant' means we are dead-on for relegation, then where is the harm in changing the manager to see if somebody can do better? They cannot do any worse if relegation is considered an inevitability under AT.

The only reasonable argument I can see for keeping AT on is that the players will develop and improve in time under his watch - but I'm not hearing anybody say that, not even the pro-AT people.

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Colonel Mustard said:
But why attempt nothing? All the talk of wanting the club to die and imminent relegation (it's November) sounds an awful lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

But we change manager every season, this time the new manager will have no money to bring anyone in. This is the season we are truly fucked.

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

Macca said:
but my problem is that some people in one breath say " We played well, we were robbed by referee, bad luck, tea lady" but then in the next breath "Thorn has nothing to work with"

You can play well and be unlucky and be shite all at the same time. The reason a team finishes near the bottom is because they have not got the quality to play well consistently over a sustained period. Even shit teams can play well (e.g Wigan) and be unlucky and robbed because of a poor referee's performance (e.g vs Blackburn).

The problem is we haven't got the quality especially in the attacking third to put a decent run together, hence why people say he's got nothing to work with - he's having to play 3 teenagers who were 17 when the season started week in week out.

Macca · Nov 23, 2011

you may well be right that we are fucked mate so my argument is lets not lay down and take it but try anything to avoid it, nothing to lose. If that means giving someone a shot even for the rest of the season then why not? AT isn't doing it, maybe nobody else can, but if we don't try we will never know

stupot07 · Nov 23, 2011

i don't know - half of me thinks lets get someone else in and the other half thinks fuck it keep Thorn in charge and let him bed in the youngsters and build a new team around them, and let them get a years experience which will hopefully hold them in good stead. There are massive similarities with Southampton who also had a very young side with Lallana and Surman trying to play nice football, although i know that Southampton then had a rich owner who could afford £1.5m for Lambert when they were in league one.

Without finances to invest, and the real possibility of losing Juke tomorrow and Clingan and Crainie in January is it really worth bringing another manager in?

sky blue john · Nov 24, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Carsley. Doing wonders with the academy.

At least have a balanced argument !!!!!!
All you have come up with is one potential managers name who has less experiance than AT also any success from the academy is all down to G Rioch so if we are promoting from within it should be him !!!!!!!!
We have had so called experienced managers for the last 10 years all of them have been given money to spend and what have we achieved ?
If your so anti AT then come up with some serious managerial options that are within Sisu's budget and I am happy to listen. If not you are part of the problem not the solution !!!!!!!!!!!!!:facepalm:

tbh444 · Nov 24, 2011

I think our starting 11 is easily in the top 3 worst in the division, and this has been reflected in the relegation odds since well before the season (first or second favourites throughout) - I doubt this sentiment has been based on the manager.

I think we'll go down with AT but actually think more chopping and changing would make it even more of a certainty at this stage (I appreciate that our last 101 managers have had their honeymoon spells but just think that playing this card has been well exhausted by now)

Paxman II · Nov 24, 2011

It's a results business. No matter what we all think we know it's my opinion that Thorn or indeed any other manager will have to go if we continue to struggle as we are. Everything revolves around the success or lack of it on the football pitch.
As for comments we can't even afford to sack him when he must be the lowest paid manager in the league are silly. If they can find money for a loan or two or Cody Mc.Donald they will find some to change the manager or risk further their investment going down the tubes completely.
Conventional wisdom would suggest another month or so at best and if we are still where we are now then there will be a change in time to try and secure our better players from leaving and add new impetus.

Otis · Nov 24, 2011

sky blue john said:
At least have a balanced argument !!!!!!
All you have come up with is one potential managers name who has less experiance than AT also any success from the academy is all down to G Rioch so if we are promoting from within it should be him !!!!!!!!
We have had so called experienced managers for the last 10 years all of them have been given money to spend and what have we achieved ?
If your so anti AT then come up with some serious managerial options that are within Sisu's budget and I am happy to listen. If not you are part of the problem not the solution !!!!!!!!!!!!!:facepalm:

Think you are missing the point, John. If Thorn was sacked it would be Carsley and you know it. What would happen would be Carsley and Harrison or whoever as caretaker managers while Sisu "looked" for a replacement. Carsely would be caretaker manager then for some time. And though Rioch obviously deserves lots of the plaudits we have only been top of the league since Carsley came. May be a coincidence.

Maybe not.

TimRussell · Nov 24, 2011

If he was a miracle worker we wouldn't be in the bottom 3. Do Peterborough, in mid-table, have that much better a squad than ours? Nope. This is what happens when you recruit internally because it's a cheap option. Time to get rid & bring in someone with a bit of managerial experience.

Astute · Nov 24, 2011

We have the smallest squad. We have the youngest squad. We have about the least experienced squad. All the fault of AT? I am hoping that the squad will improve with experience. The last couple of games have seen an improvement. Morale is not rock bottom as it could and should be. AT is doing something right.

Otis · Nov 24, 2011

AT is doing something right.

Unfortunately he is also getting some of his tactics wrong. There are things we can rectify that could give us a better chance of survival and I wish he would deploy them.

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