Fit for purpose (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2018

SISU - enough said.

Preston Haskell - even ACL's preferred choice as administrator cast doubt on his ability to fund buying the club. He was still courted.

Dale Evans - welcomed into the consortium.

Now, on first level, this looks like I'm heading for another Hoffman / Elliot bashing but actually... I'm not!

Ultimately, the statements were brief, and not much time was wasted on him. If someone like Evans pops up on your radar and you're then asked for a comment by the media then well... what do you say? If I offered Hoffman ten grand would he welcome me into the consortium, as every little helps?

So in terms of him being embraced, I'm not convinced he was as much as either, well... SISU or Haskell! There is obviously a concern about him thinking Evans was serious.

Gary Hoffman said:
I won’t reveal what I have seen but it is enough to suggest he is serious.

It's a shame we'll never get to see what he saw, or know what he saw so we can judge for ourselves how much this was taken in. Later he says, after all

Gary Hoffman said:
There was evidence of funds. It was clear quite quickly that the promises were not going to be followed through. So I told him we were ending our dialogue several weeks ago.

It's a shame this wasn't mentioned!

But again, people like me have been crying out for Hoffman not to conduct things through the media, and do them in private. In this instance... he has, hasn't he?

Therefore, doesn't this episode actually show, more, that Hoffman *has* learned from past efforts and isn't that encouraging?

Or should we be mightily concerned about the proof of funds sentences?

Nick · Jan 11, 2018

Would Hoffman have said anything if the Solicitors didn't?

Otis · Jan 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
SISU - enough said.

Preston Haskell - even ACL's preferred choice as administrator cast doubt on his ability to fund buying the club. He was still courted.

Dale Evans - welcomed into the consortium.

Now, on first level, this looks like I'm heading for another Hoffman / Elliot bashing but actually... I'm not!

Ultimately, the statements were brief, and not much time was wasted on him. If someone like Evans pops up on your radar and you're then asked for a comment by the media then well... what do you say? If I offered Hoffman ten grand would he welcome me into the consortium, as every little helps?

So in terms of him being embraced, I'm not convinced he was as much as either, well... SISU or Haskell! There is obviously a concern about him thinking Evans was serious.

It's a shame we'll never get to see what he saw, or know what he saw so we can judge for ourselves how much this was taken in. Later he says, after all

It's a shame this wasn't mentioned!

But again, people like me have been crying out for Hoffman not to conduct things through the media, and do them in private. In this instance... he has, hasn't he?

Therefore, doesn't this episode actually show, more, that Hoffman *has* learned from past efforts and isn't that encouraging?

Or should we be mightily concerned about the proof of funds sentences?

Was expecting this to be:

'Fit for purpose'

SBT - Yes or No?

olderskyblue · Jan 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
SISU - enough said.

Preston Haskell - even ACL's preferred choice as administrator cast doubt on his ability to fund buying the club. He was still courted.

Dale Evans - welcomed into the consortium.

Now, on first level, this looks like I'm heading for another Hoffman / Elliot bashing but actually... I'm not!

Ultimately, the statements were brief, and not much time was wasted on him. If someone like Evans pops up on your radar and you're then asked for a comment by the media then well... what do you say? If I offered Hoffman ten grand would he welcome me into the consortium, as every little helps?

So in terms of him being embraced, I'm not convinced he was as much as either, well... SISU or Haskell! There is obviously a concern about him thinking Evans was serious.

It's a shame we'll never get to see what he saw, or know what he saw so we can judge for ourselves how much this was taken in. Later he says, after all

It's a shame this wasn't mentioned!

But again, people like me have been crying out for Hoffman not to conduct things through the media, and do them in private. In this instance... he has, hasn't he?

Therefore, doesn't this episode actually show, more, that Hoffman *has* learned from past efforts and isn't that encouraging?

Or should we be mightily concerned about the proof of funds sentences?

If you put yourself in Hoffman's position, and a guy makes claims of having millions, he then shows you some "proof" of that, then you can understand why he would entertain him. How far can you go at that point to make sure he really does have any money?

Seems he entertained him for awhile, then realised the guys a joker, and dropped him. Don't see too much of a problem with that tbh

Nick · Jan 11, 2018

olderskyblue said:
If you put yourself in Hoffman's position, and a guy makes claims of having millions, he then shows you some "proof" of that, then you can understand why he would entertain him. How far can you go at that point to make sure he really does have any money?

Seems he entertained him for awhile, then realised the guys a joker, and dropped him. Don't see too much of a problem with that tbh

You would think somebody who has worked in banking and business deals etc they would have methods in place to be able to check people out properly before giving it the welcome to the consortium stuff in public? Lots of fans didn't have that and didn't fall for it.

Hoffman could also have mentioned something to say he was a joker, not in as many words but then maybe city fans wouldn't have been fooled multiple times since.

olderskyblue · Jan 11, 2018

Nick said:
You would think somebody who has worked in banking and business deals etc they would have methods in place to be able to check people out properly before giving it the welcome to the consortium stuff in public? Lots of fans didn't have that and didn't fall for it.

Hoffman could also have mentioned something to say he was a joker, not in as many words but then maybe city fans wouldn't have been fooled multiple times since.

I guess the worrying answer to that is that he can't really, so what does he really know about the other members of the consortium? Are they all shysters like Dale?

Suffolk sky blues · Jan 11, 2018

It is obvious to me that all English football league clubs wing it.they have player power/results fan pressure & the fa.the whole lot aren't fit for purpose.

Nick · Jan 11, 2018

Suffolk sky blues said:
It is obvious to me that all English football league clubs wing it.they have player power/results fan pressure & the fa.the whole lot aren't fit for purpose.

It's even more obvious that you clearly don't read anything before posting. He wasn't on about a football club.

shmmeee · Jan 11, 2018

Nick said:
You would think somebody who has worked in banking and business deals etc they would have methods in place to be able to check people out properly before giving it the welcome to the consortium stuff in public? Lots of fans didn't have that and didn't fall for it.

Hoffman could also have mentioned something to say he was a joker, not in as many words but then maybe city fans wouldn't have been fooled multiple times since.

What methods do you think bankers have? Just because he works in finance doesn’t mean he’s got X-ray vision into people’s bank accounts or that he knows the location of every pound.

I work with people doing multi million pound property deals all the time and they’ve had a few chancers get quite far before realising they hadn’t got the money they’d claimed.

That said, it literally took me five seconds to clock Evans was a bullshitter (see the thread for proof) and Hoffman not instantly going “jog on mate” does make me worried.

Not much more worried than I was already considering he shacked up with Elliot and couldn’t get a bid in properly before, mind.

Nick · Jan 11, 2018

shmmeee said:
What methods do you think bankers have? Just because he works in finance doesn’t mean he’s got X-ray vision into people’s bank accounts or that he knows the location of every pound.

I work with people doing multi million pound property deals all the time and they’ve had a few chancers get quite far before realising they hadn’t got the money they’d claimed.

That said, it literally took me five seconds to clock Evans was a bullshitter (see the thread for proof) and Hoffman not instantly going “jog on mate” does make me worried.

Not much more worried than I was already considering he shacked up with Elliot and couldn’t get a bid in properly before, mind.

No but surely he would have processes to validate things? Letters directly from the bank manager for example to prove it rather than a screenshot that anybody could Photoshop. It wasn't as if Evans was a proper con artist either with a thought out plan, he contradicted himself every time he spoke.

Otherwise anybody could start pissing about with edited bank balances and take over.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2018

Nick said:
No but surely he would have processes to validate things? Letters directly from the bank manager for example to prove it rather than a screenshot that anybody could Photoshop. It wasn't as if Evans was a proper con artist either with a thought out plan, he contradicted himself every time he spoke.

Otherwise anybody could start pissing about with edited bank balances and take over.

In his defence, he's probably had something thrust under his nose, and then the local journalists asking him about it not long after. For once, in this instance Hoffman's only responded when asked questions, and not overly fully either... which is progress from past efforts.

Mind, there was a bloke on the epic thread who said the photoshopped doc showed Evans's nectar points too, and that gave away how much was actually in his account. If *that* was the same proof Hoffman was shown I'd be worried, but then we're never going to know that.

clint van damme · Jan 11, 2018

I get the reservations about Hoffman I really do, especially with Mr Coventry City hovering on his shoulder.
But we're desperate! I would welcome him with open arms and probably have a little celebratory drink should he ever complete his takeover given where we are at the moment. He couldn't be worse - could he?!

The Reverend Skyblue · Jan 11, 2018

Lets say Evan's story was true and he won it on cards.These people would gamble their last penny and asset away on the turn of a card.
If I was Hoffman why would I want that type of mentality in my consortium and have an ongoing say into the running of the club, he would bankrupt us again going for unachievable dreams.
I would want established and successful businessmen on my board not a complete chancer who got lucky once, again if all this was true.
So yes Hoffman is raising doubts with me on his decision making, though obviously he has got more decisions right in the past than wrong but I'm getting a little concerned about Hoffman future involvement
I think we need to forget about Hoffman as a saviour if he thought dale was a good addition to the future board

Nick · Jan 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
In his defence, he's probably had something thrust under his nose, and then the local journalists asking him about it not long after. For once, in this instance Hoffman's only responded when asked questions, and not overly fully either... which is progress from past efforts.

Mind, there was a bloke on the epic thread who said the photoshopped doc showed Evans's nectar points too, and that gave away how much was actually in his account. If *that* was the same proof Hoffman was shown I'd be worried, but then we're never going to know that.

I can see that, but he could then have just said "I am going to speak to Dale Evans in the coming days" rather than "We welcome him to the consortium" which then gives him credence and shows that Hoffman believes in him etc.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2018

clint van damme said:
I get the reservations about Hoffman I really do, especially with Mr Coventry City hovering on his shoulder.
But we're desperate! I would welcome him with open arms and probably have a little celebratory drink should he ever complete his takeover given where we are at the moment. He couldn't be worse - could he?!

It's more... is his bid actually built on sand? olderskyblue makes a point that, when it comes to it, do other members of his consortium *actually* have the werewithal? If it's that lax, would it be lax enough to either let SISU off and get them a better deal than they deserve, negotiate a crippling deal with Wasps, or think they're fooling SISU into accepting something when they're not?

Now as I said, in this instance with Evans, I actually feel kind of sorry for Hoffman, that he's ended up caught up in something he wasn't really looking for and I wouldn't necessarily hold it against him to have got caught up in this.

When and if the time came however, I hope we would indeed ask qustions such as who the hell is actually in his consortium.

clint van damme · Jan 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's more... is his bid actually built on sand? olderskyblue makes a point that, when it comes to it, do other members of his consortium *actually* have the werewithal? If it's that lax, would it be lax enough to either let SISU off and get them a better deal than they deserve, negotiate a crippling deal with Wasps, or think they're fooling SISU into accepting something when they're not?

Now as I said, in this instance with Evans, I actually feel kind of sorry for Hoffman, that he's ended up caught up in something he wasn't really looking for and I wouldn't necessarily hold it against him to have got caught up in this.

When and if the time came however, I hope we would indeed ask qustions such as who the hell is actually in his consortium.

We need that healthy cynicism of yourself and other NW.
Keeps those of us who act like giddy school girls at the mention of a takeover in check!

shmmeee · Jan 11, 2018

clint van damme said:
We need that healthy cynicism of yourself and other NW.
Keeps those of us who act like giddy school girls at the mention of a takeover in check!

Didn’t do us any good when he had the “End Is Nigh” sandwich board out for Sisu TBF.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2018

clint van damme said:
We need that healthy cynicism of yourself and other NW.
Keeps those of us who act like giddy school girls at the mention of a takeover in check!

There is a certain irony that even in a thread I start to basically suggest not to worry about Evans and his involvement with Hoffman, I can't help my cynicism from shining through

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2018

shmmeee said:
Didn’t do us any good when he had the “End Is Nigh” sandwich board out for Sisu TBF.

Yup, I'm positively optimistic about a Hoffman led CCFC compared to what I was with SISU!

shmmeee · Jan 11, 2018

Nick said:
No but surely he would have processes to validate things? Letters directly from the bank manager for example to prove it rather than a screenshot that anybody could Photoshop. It wasn't as if Evans was a proper con artist either with a thought out plan, he contradicted himself every time he spoke.

Otherwise anybody could start pissing about with edited bank balances and take over.

You’d be amazed how little proof you need. It’s generally assumed that no one would be stupid enough to try and do a multimillion pound deal with no cash.

In property it’s usually someone pretending they own a building and they get quite far and that’s a matter of public record, anyone can check the deeds. All it takes is a little “Oh I’m acting on their behalf” or “That’s my holding company” or some other bollocks.

djbooth · Jan 11, 2018

I would to clear something thing up. Before Hoffman is allowed to look in to Mr Evans financial status. It has to be done by the proper process ie a written request and mr Evans has to sign a credit reference form. This form only let mr Hoffman know if he has declared bankruptcy or a credit risk. Due to data protection laws. After this had been done and only then can due diligence can be done.

It will be very hard at this stage to see if anyone is bullshitting or not. I suspect that it was only at this stage that it came apparent that mr Evans was a lying twat. It’s not uncommon that mr Hoffman for a non disclosure agreement as part of the process.

clint van damme · Jan 11, 2018

shmmeee said:
You’d be amazed how little proof you need. It’s generally assumed that no one would be stupid enough to try and do a multimillion pound deal with no cash.

In property it’s usually someone pretending they own a building and they get quite far and that’s a matter of public record, anyone can check the deeds. All it takes is a little “Oh I’m acting on their behalf” or “That’s my holding company” or some other bollocks.

It's how Don King got started.
Can't remember the exact details, (it's in the book Sting like a bee). He didn't have a pot to piss in but got the fighters to sign contracts even though he was skint by promising them each a big purse. Once he had the contracts he went looking for a backer and it snow balled from there.

Nick · Jan 11, 2018

shmmeee said:
You’d be amazed how little proof you need. It’s generally assumed that no one would be stupid enough to try and do a multimillion pound deal with no cash.

In property it’s usually someone pretending they own a building and they get quite far and that’s a matter of public record, anyone can check the deeds. All it takes is a little “Oh I’m acting on their behalf” or “That’s my holding company” or some other bollocks.

It's probably why Nigerian Scammers get away with all sorts and make millions from it.

I'm sceptical if I am to sell something for £20 and they haven't got any feedback on eBay, never mind millions. I'd probably have PI's following them about if I did to make sure.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2018

Nick said:
It's probably why Nigerian Scammers get away with all sorts and make millions from it.

I'm sceptical if I am to sell something for £20 and they haven't got any feedback on eBay, never mind millions. I'd probably have PI's following them about if I did to make sure.

I always get nervous if someone bids with zero feedback!

tbf this is also part of the reason why neither you nor I are multimillionaires (or am I part of the consortium? ) in that neither of us risks anything for the reward.

Nick · Jan 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
I always get nervous if someone bids with zero feedback!

tbf this is also part of the reason why neither you nor I are multimillionaires (or am I part of the consortium? ) in that neither of us risks anything for the reward.

There is that I guess, and both a tad cynical

Colin Steins Smile · Jan 11, 2018

I'm sure a few on here would be very critical of Hoffman if he'd turned down involvement from a Billionaire, then the same individual buys another club. It's not until a full diligence process is undertaken that issues can be illuminated that disqualify someone from involvement. Can we get back to talking about the team until a deal is done?

Captain Dart · Jan 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Preston Haskell - even ACL's preferred choice as administrator cast doubt on his ability to fund buying the club. He was still courted.

Question, do you suspect he is a silent partner in Hoffman's consortium, as far as I'm aware he has not yet purchased a football club.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2018

Captain Dart said:
Question, do you suspect he is a silent partner in Hoffman's consortium, as far as I'm aware he has not yet purchased a football club.

Interesting thought. tbh I suspect as a property developer the Ricoh was the draw, and that isn't available any more. It was also the promise of redeveloping the area that made him acceptable to certain other parties, too.

(Of course as a partner in a consortium, he'd have the means for that!)

shmmeee · Jan 11, 2018

clint van damme said:
It's how Don King got started.
Can't remember the exact details, (it's in the book Sting like a bee). He didn't have a pot to piss in but got the fighters to sign contracts even though he was skint by promising them each a big purse. Once he had the contracts he went looking for a backer and it snow balled from there.

There’s a lot of it. The guys I work for are probably millionaires. All they do is send letters to people asking if they’ll sell their property, then send letters to business looking to buy property saying they’ve got these properties for sale and take a cut of any deals.

I wouldn’t have the balls to do that, but I guess a lack of shame pays.

skybluetony176 · Jan 11, 2018

clint van damme said:
It's how Don King got started.
Can't remember the exact details, (it's in the book Sting like a bee). He didn't have a pot to piss in but got the fighters to sign contracts even though he was skint by promising them each a big purse. Once he had the contracts he went looking for a backer and it snow balled from there.

Isn’t the Glaziers wealth based on credit? Sure I read somewhere that if all their debts got called in they couldn’t pay up? Remember hearing/reading something about Alan Sugar and Trump having a barny when Trump started saying Alan Sugar worked for him and Sugar wasn’t worth a fraction of what he was, apparently Sugar called his bluff and challenged him to write him a cheque for a $1M and he’d write Trump a cheque for the same, they’d both bank them and then see who’s cleared. Trump apparently declined. Or something like that.

Lots of people considered super rich aren’t always exactly that.

CJ_covblaze · Jan 12, 2018

Preston more than had enough funds to cover a takeover at even a vastly inflated price. His old man had significantly more than him and was willing to back him too. They weren’t time wasters and were genuine but when it got down to trying to a deal they realised they couldn’t due to various factors and then backed away.

A high profile investor and owner of football clubs in this country was also interested around 18 months ago. They quickly realised they could not do a deal with who they needed to and once again backed away. This individual is ruthless but has been very successful with a proven track record.

Take from that what you will.

With regards to Gary’s consortium and who’s on it I doubt he has any worries about their lack of funds. For example one of them has made a pretty reasonable investment into the club recently didn’t they?

SkyBlueZack · Jan 12, 2018

How much money has HW got? JE? I assume you know the identities of the consortium? Is GH rich himself or just works with rich people?
Personally it's irrelevant if they have riches to spare, the club needs to be ran sustainably.

clint van damme · Jan 12, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
Preston more than had enough funds to cover a takeover at even a vastly inflated price. His old man had significantly more than him and was willing to back him too. They weren’t time wasters and were genuine but when it got down to trying to a deal they realised they couldn’t due to various factors and then backed away.

A high profile investor and owner of football clubs in this country was also interested around 18 months ago. They quickly realised they could not do a deal with who they needed to and once again backed away. This individual is ruthless but has been very successful with a proven track record.

Take from that what you will.

With regards to Gary’s consortium and who’s on it I doubt he has any worries about their lack of funds. For example one of them has made a pretty reasonable investment into the club recently didn’t they?

Fucking hell! So close and yet so far!!

martcov · Jan 12, 2018

shmmeee said:
You’d be amazed how little proof you need. It’s generally assumed that no one would be stupid enough to try and do a multimillion pound deal with no cash.

In property it’s usually someone pretending they own a building and they get quite far and that’s a matter of public record, anyone can check the deeds. All it takes is a little “Oh I’m acting on their behalf” or “That’s my holding company” or some other bollocks.

The Notts County scam was backed up a multi million pound indemnity from a company. They accepted that without checking that the company issuing the indemnity didn’t have any money. Looked safe on paper.

olderskyblue · Jan 12, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
A high profile investor and owner of football clubs in this country was also interested around 18 months ago. They quickly realised they could not do a deal with who they needed to and once again backed away. This individual is ruthless but has been very successful with a proven track record.

I thought someone with an investment in another English footballl club couldn't invest in a 2nd?

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