Five subs (2 Viewers)

Nick · Nov 10, 2020

The big clubs still banging on about it

Sheffield United dismiss Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp calls for five subs change

The PFA has backed calls from Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola for the Premier League to re-introduce five substitutions. Klopp: Its not an advantage, its a necessity. 100 per cent; Guardiola: We dont protect the players, and thats why its a disaster

www.skysports.com

Personally, I much prefer 3 subs, the irony is that the likes of Liverpool are also pushing for their European Superleague.

AOM · Nov 10, 2020

Yeah, I think Guardiola was also banging on about it, but noticed both teams didn't even use all 3 subs in their last game.
Surely will only benefit the bigger teams with larger, more expensive squads?

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 10, 2020

Nick said:
The big clubs still banging on about it

Sheffield United dismiss Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp calls for five subs change

The PFA has backed calls from Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola for the Premier League to re-introduce five substitutions. Klopp: Its not an advantage, its a necessity. 100 per cent; Guardiola: We dont protect the players, and thats why its a disaster

www.skysports.com

Personally, I much prefer 3 subs, the irony is that the likes of Liverpool are also pushing for their European Superleague.

Was better when it was just one, and you had to have people with broken legs hang around on the left wing, as a body.

no_loyalty · Nov 10, 2020

They will be asking for drinks breaks next.

Magwitch · Nov 10, 2020

It’s the clubs in the premier who voted this down saying it would give the richest too much of an advantage was spoken about today on Talksport.
I don’t agree that the intensity causes extra injuries, it’s luck or bad luck last year Liverpool had hardly any this year not so lucky it happens.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Nov 10, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Was better when it was just one, and you had to have people with broken legs hang around on the left wing, as a body.

Bit harsh m8. That was Kastaneer.

SeaSeeEffCee · Nov 10, 2020

Robins would still only make two like for like subs in the 84th minute

Flying Fokker · Nov 10, 2020

Nick said:
The big clubs still banging on about it

Sheffield United dismiss Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp calls for five subs change

The PFA has backed calls from Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola for the Premier League to re-introduce five substitutions. Klopp: Its not an advantage, its a necessity. 100 per cent; Guardiola: We dont protect the players, and thats why its a disaster

www.skysports.com

Personally, I much prefer 3 subs, the irony is that the likes of Liverpool are also pushing for their European Superleague.

I remember the one sub per game era.

torchomatic · Nov 11, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Was better when it was just one, and you had to have people with broken legs hang around on the left wing, as a body.

Well in our day, a player was hardly ever injured. Now, they're out for two weeks at least if they get a dead leg. Ridiculous.

Still remember Lloyd McGrath waving to the crowd as he was stretchered off with a broken leg at HR. No oxygen for him!

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 11, 2020

torchomatic said:
Well in our day, a player was hardly ever injured. Now, they're out for two weeks at least if they get a dead leg. Ridiculous.

Still remember Lloyd McGrath waving to the crowd as he was stretchered off with a broken leg at HR. No oxygen for him!

There's a bit in Harry Roberts' autobiography about how he had to drive himself to hospital after suffering a broken leg!

Kieranp96 · Nov 11, 2020

AOM said:
Yeah, I think Guardiola was also banging on about it, but noticed both teams didn't even use all 3 subs in their last game.
Surely will only benefit the bigger teams with larger, more expensive squads?

It benifit every team, but I don't think yiu should be allowed to sub half your out field players, 3 is plenty.

Kieranp96 · Nov 11, 2020

torchomatic said:
Well in our day, a player was hardly ever injured. Now, they're out for two weeks at least if they get a dead leg. Ridiculous.

Still remember Lloyd McGrath waving to the crowd as he was stretchered off with a broken leg at HR. No oxygen for him!

Have you had a deadleg? I use to play rugby and I got. Injured and had a dead leg for over 10 days , like a full on dead leg.

fatso · Nov 11, 2020

They will be wanting quarters next, time outs, and ad breaks!

steve cooper · Nov 11, 2020

The original law only allowed for the replacement of an injured player, not a tactical change. sort of makes sense really.

Magwitch · Nov 11, 2020

fatso said:
They will be wanting quarters next, time outs, and ad breaks!

Don’t rule that out, we have drink breaks now as it is.

Nick · Nov 11, 2020

Magwitch said:
Don’t rule that out, we have drink breaks now as it is.

Do we? Havent had one for a while in our games.

Skyblueweeman · Nov 11, 2020

I have to say, despite the time consuming nature of substitutions, I'm all for 5 subs.

I agree that players do seem to get more injuries than the olden days but regardless or whether you're Liverpool on Lincoln, having the opportunity to use 5 subs would ultimately keep players fresher and likely reduce the amount of injuries you deal with.

Given our track record with injuries in recent years, I think we would benefit from it.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 11, 2020

Skyblueweeman said:
I have to say, despite the time consuming nature of substitutions, I'm all for 5 subs.

I agree that players do seem to get more injuries than the olden days but regardless or whether you're Liverpool on Lincoln, having the opportunity to use 5 subs would ultimately keep players fresher and likely reduce the amount of injuries you deal with.

Given our track record with injuries in recent years, I think we would benefit from it.

Aren't the injuries partly because as the game becomes more athletic, players' bodies are pushed further?

So, would it actually reduce injuries, or would five outfield players on for 80 minutes chasing around after five players just introduced, cause more?

(Genuine question, not my area... although obviously on these boards, we all become expert at everything )

SBT · Nov 11, 2020

Keep it as it is imo. Three subs is a good balance for allowing for injuries, plus allowing for some limited in-game tactical chess from the managers, without the richest/biggest squads swamping the little guys.

The only possible change you could argue for is extra subs for concussions, which we still haven't got a good solution for. And yes, I'm sure some team somewhere would try to exploit that rule, but it still wouldn't be as bad as the current mess of a system we have.

rhino1002 · Nov 11, 2020

i think one rule that should be introduced is no subs after the 90 mins is up
No substitutions in added time
its only ever done to waste time

Paxman II · Nov 11, 2020

If you allow 5 subs that is virtually half a team that can change during a game! Utter madness.

Skyblueweeman · Nov 11, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Aren't the injuries partly because as the game becomes more athletic, players' bodies are pushed further?

So, would it actually reduce injuries, or would five outfield players on for 80 minutes chasing around after five players just introduced, cause more?

(Genuine question, not my area... although obviously on these boards, we all become expert at everything )

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I guess the law of averages would mean that every player could statistically play less minutes per season due to increasing chances of them being taken off as a result of more subs per game.

But yeah, I guess for those who aren't subbed, having to chase 5 fresher players might not help.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other I suppose.

Terry_dactyl · Nov 11, 2020

torchomatic said:
Well in our day, a player was hardly ever injured. Now, they're out for two weeks at least if they get a dead leg. Ridiculous.

Still remember Lloyd McGrath waving to the crowd as he was stretchered off with a broken leg at HR. No oxygen for him!

That’s right! Midweek game? My dad reckons we heard the snap from the skyblue terrace.

ccfcway · Nov 11, 2020

Paxman II said:
If you allow 5 subs that is virtually half a team that can change during a game! Utter madness.

Why ?. It’s a squad game. To that point as well, not a clue why Clubs can’t list their match day squad on the bench like they do in international competitions

chiefdave · Nov 11, 2020

The more subs you allow the more it plays into the big clubs hands and encourages teams to overspend.

Look at our bench recently, we've had to bring players like Kasta in just to have a full allocation of possible subs. Then we see teams we are playing bringing on multi-million pound players.

SBAndy · Nov 11, 2020

Leave it as it is. If Pep and Klopp are concerned about the fitness of their players, nothing stopping them sporadically resting them throughout the season and giving other players the opportunity to start, etc.

Nick · Nov 11, 2020

ccfcway said:
Why ?. It’s a squad game. To that point as well, not a clue why Clubs can’t list their match day squad on the bench like they do in international competitions

The matchday squad is listed?

Mcbean · Nov 11, 2020

Wants a total rethink - put the fourth official in charge of subs - no stopping the game unless the trainer is on - one off one on - no waiting for people to get in position - would cut all the time wasting - fourth official is in contact with the ref all the time

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 11, 2020

steve cooper said:
The original law only allowed for the replacement of an injured player, not a tactical change. sort of makes sense really.

Trouble with this is that you could tell a player to go down injured in order to replace them, so it's easily worked around. Ref can tell a player/phsio they aren't injured enough to be replaced.

Three is fine. Good balance between tactical changes and injuries.

These clubs that are calling for it have massive squads. if they're so bothered about injuries how about using that huge squad to rotate, giving players more rest. They could do so far more comfortably than smaller clubs with smaller squads or whose back-up is of a lower standard. And they could stop flying around the world during the close season playing friendlies/exhibition games for extra revenue.

Evo1883 · Nov 11, 2020

Just 2 more subs... Just 400 million on full backs...

Does guardiola ever stop?

SkyBlueSam01 · Nov 11, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Aren't the injuries partly because as the game becomes more athletic, players' bodies are pushed further?

So, would it actually reduce injuries, or would five outfield players on for 80 minutes chasing around after five players just introduced, cause more?

(Genuine question, not my area... although obviously on these boards, we all become expert at everything )

Excellent article on the increase in injury recurrence rates from the Barcelona sports science innovation hub here: CHALLENGES IN SPORTS MEDICINE DUE TO THE RISE OF INJURIES IN FOOTBALL

I personally think that in addition to injuries caused by increased physical demands of the game, injuries also rightly get flagged up by more stringent medical care nowadays, meaning players are more frequently listed as injured but then go on to have much longer careers than players of old. I would suspect that in addition to increased demands of the game, previously, soft tissue injuries such as tendinopathies and minor muscle strains would just have been treated with stoicism and ignored, but left to accumulate over the years and players ending up with bits falling off them by the end of their career.

In general though injuries essentially come about when there are high physical demands without sufficient recovery, or there is a sudden spike in intensity that players aren't prepared for, rather than simply high intensity per se.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 11, 2020

At first I thought this was just Kasta's order for lunch. And not those puny 6' ones either - the full footlongs.

stevefloyd · Nov 11, 2020

They get plenty of rest waiting for a VAR decision

Frostie · Nov 11, 2020

It's utter nonsense.
The big clubs have stockpiled more than enough players to rotate appropriately. It's purely so they can gain an advantage over those less fortunate under the pretence of caring for the players whilst simultaneously hawking them all around the furthest reaches of the planet in moneyspinning friendlies.

better days · Nov 11, 2020

Tbh most players would welcome 5 subs
Almost all contracts include appearance fees that are only payable if they make it onto the pitch
Being on the bench doesn't count if they don't get on
One of the factors in increased substitutions is the need to protect players from themselves by soldiering on with head injuries
We all know that until recently it was seen as a badge of honour to carry on like the Black Knight in Monty Python

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