Formation concerns (1 Viewer)

Yorkshire SB · Aug 21, 2012

For me, the diamond formation doesn't work at this level. It's modern day football tactics, which concentrates on narrow play, incorporating clever intricate passes and movement. Similar tactics are employed by the likes of Man City and Arsenal, and in my opinion Thorn is trying to be too clever.

Whilst the squad of players we have lean towards a narrow style of football (no real pace in the squad and lots of attacking midfielders) I worry that this could let us down.
For me personally I'd like to see two pacey wingers, full backs that can overlap and cross and one holding midfielder and one creative midfielder. Obviously it's a bit of a hypothetical argument as we don't have the players to fulfil this, but I just don't feel as though we have any kind of plan B. There's very few outlets for the side in terms of strength up top or pace down the flanks.

On a side note, thought Jennings was outstanding tonight, along with Wood and Barton. Worry a little about Reece Brown and hope we aren't just playing him to keep United happy.

stupot07 · Aug 21, 2012

Sheffield unted played a very narrow formation for the majority of the match.

Martin180 · Aug 21, 2012

It works if the fullbacks play high up the pitch ........

Yorkshire SB · Aug 21, 2012

Martin180 said:
It works if the fullbacks play high up the pitch ........

I guess Hussey and Christie could work then. Big fan of Jordan Clarke and rate him above Christie, but if we're looking for attacking fullbacks I think the latter could offer more.

Martin180 · Aug 21, 2012

Gary Neville did a piece last night on MFN before the match about the role of the modern day fullback , was really interesting and gave an insight into the way the modern game has evolved.

One of his comparisons was Barcelona playing 6 midfielders yet utilising their full backs as wingers

Yorkshire SB · Aug 21, 2012

Yeah completely agree that modern day football has to be played in this way, but at this level I think it needs to be far more simple. Pacey wingers, overlapping full backs, big man up front, small poacher up front, holding midfielder and a creative midfielder!

Martin180 · Aug 21, 2012

templericoh said:
Yeah completely agree that modern day football has to be played in this way, but at this level I think it needs to be far more simple. Pacey wingers, overlapping full backs, big man up front, small poacher up front, holding midfielder and a creative midfielder!

Will do for me

Diehard Si · Aug 22, 2012

Martin180 said:
Will do for me

Which we've got apart from the wingers

Perhaps Barton could occupy wide right, but he's not a pacy winger. Left sided McSheffrey is the closest we've got.

Covstu · Aug 22, 2012

i was no fussed about the formation it was the style of play change that was worrying! We played nice football last season (okay we got relegated by it) but why did we insist on pumping the ball constantly to our little forwards all night??

shmmeee · Aug 22, 2012

Have I just come into a thread saying modern football has to be played 442 with a big man and pact wingers???

Covstu · Aug 22, 2012

shmmeee said:
Have I just come into a thread saying modern football has to be played 442 with a big man and pact wingers???

i think competent players would be a start!

Yorkshire SB · Aug 22, 2012

shmmeee said:
Have I just come into a thread saying modern football has to be played 442 with a big man and pact wingers???

Nice attempt to mock, but evidently you haven't read the thread. Modern football is very narrow, relying on quick pass and move, occupied by players like silva, kagawa, ozil and the diamond formation would fit into that category. My point is that I don't think it works at this level of football.

lordsummerisle · Aug 22, 2012

Can anybody who watches the academy play tell me what formation they play?

Do they play diamond, 442 or something else?

Would be nice if they are playing the diamond(regardless of it's relative merits), should be playing the same style of football across all groups to enable easier transistion to the higher level.

I know a "Director of Football" approach has never really taken off in this country(or with this club, remember Big Ron being pushed to that role?), but would be great if we had one person in charge over all our teams, managers then became interchangeable and merley have to adapt to the "club" system, rather than a root and branch overhaul everytime there is a managerial change.

Obviously have to have the right man and tactics in place initially.

CCFC_Charlie · Aug 22, 2012

Covstu said:
i was no fussed about the formation it was the style of play change that was worrying! We played nice football last season (okay we got relegated by it) but why did we insist on pumping the ball constantly to our little forwards all night??

While I agree that the style of play isn't great this season we do have to consider that when we actually scored it was a long punt from Murphy, superbly controlled by McDonald, through to Elliott and bang 1-0

oldskyblue58 · Aug 22, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
Can anybody who watches the academy play tell me what formation they play?

Do they play diamond, 442 or something else?

Would be nice if they are playing the diamond(regardless of it's relative merits), should be playing the same style of football across all groups to enable easier transistion to the higher level.

I know a "Director of Football" approach has never really taken off in this country(or with this club, remember Big Ron being pushed to that role?), but would be great if we had one person in charge over all our teams, managers then became interchangeable and merley have to adapt to the "club" system, rather than a root and branch overhaul everytime there is a managerial change.

Obviously have to have the right man and tactics in place initially.

they were not playing the diamond last season LS....... was more of a 4 4 2.

But i agree the club should play in a certain style/formation so that there is an understood progression from academy to reserves to first team. It would make it easier for young players to step into the first team

Does AT get involved with the academy etc ?

Diehard Si · Aug 22, 2012

Did i imagine it or did Thorn specifically say last season we wanted to play different formations this season?

Yorkshire SB · Aug 22, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
Can anybody who watches the academy play tell me what formation they play?

Do they play diamond, 442 or something else?

Would be nice if they are playing the diamond(regardless of it's relative merits), should be playing the same style of football across all groups to enable easier transistion to the higher level.

I know a "Director of Football" approach has never really taken off in this country(or with this club, remember Big Ron being pushed to that role?), but would be great if we had one person in charge over all our teams, managers then became interchangeable and merley have to adapt to the "club" system, rather than a root and branch overhaul everytime there is a managerial change.

Obviously have to have the right man and tactics in place initially.

This is exactly what Barcelona do. They coach every side at every age group the same style of football.
For example, when they lose the ball for 5 seconds each Barce player chase the opposition and try to win the ball back quickly. If they do not succeed then they sit off a little and regain their positioning. They then wait for triggers in their oppositions play, for example if the ball is played into the opposition striker but he has to look down to control it then they will pressure him. Another is if an opposition player first touch is slightly away from him or the ball comes off their knee or something like that. This is part of the reason they are so strong at winning the ball back from their opposition and also why new players come into the senior side and fit in so well!

skybluedude · Aug 22, 2012

I think our formation is fine for attacking play, we struggle when it comes to defensive positioning, too many goals conceded from second attempts in the box, when we should clear it first time and counter-attacks, like what happened against Sheffield United, everybody runs back into the area, but forgets to pick up a man to mark.

Godiva · Aug 22, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
Can anybody who watches the academy play tell me what formation they play?

Do they play diamond, 442 or something else?

Would be nice if they are playing the diamond(regardless of it's relative merits), should be playing the same style of football across all groups to enable easier transistion to the higher level.

I know a "Director of Football" approach has never really taken off in this country(or with this club, remember Big Ron being pushed to that role?), but would be great if we had one person in charge over all our teams, managers then became interchangeable and merley have to adapt to the "club" system, rather than a root and branch overhaul everytime there is a managerial change.

Obviously have to have the right man and tactics in place initially.

oldskyblue58 said:
they were not playing the diamond last season LS....... was more of a 4 4 2.

But i agree the club should play in a certain style/formation so that there is an understood progression from academy to reserves to first team. It would make it easier for young players to step into the first team

Does AT get involved with the academy etc ?

Didn't somebody on here post something about the club should have a fixed 'blueprint' of the formation and style of play? That this blueprint should apply to all levels in the club and that players and managers should be recruited according to their skills and ability to fulfill their role in this blueprint?
Something like that.

Maybe it's happening?

stupot07 · Aug 22, 2012

Godiva said:
Didn't somebody on here post something about the club should have a fixed 'blueprint' of the formation and style of play? That this blueprint should apply to all levels in the club and that players and managers should be recruited according to their skills and ability to fulfill their role in this blueprint?
Something like that.

Maybe it's happening?

Yeah, i think that was me. A footballer charter a bit like what the German National Team and Bundesleague (sp?) have got.

My point was around Brendon Rodger and how he and Sousa before him had built on the foundations that Martinez had put in place, each playing a similar formation and style of football but continually enhancing and improving it, bringing in players to fit the system. Laudrup has also said it was this football philosophy that attracted him to Swansea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19346728

Everytime we change manager we go for someone with a completely different footballing ethos, and they have to work with players that don't fit in with the system they want to play until they can bring in their own players. Defensive but passing football (Coleman) bringing in young up and coming players, then Hoofball/playing for set peices (Aidy Boothroyd) bringing experience players not up and coming players, AT and his diamond and tippy tappy...

how can you make sustainable improvements if you a ripping up the tactics, style of play, style of players every year with every managerial change?

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