Future Wage Investment (2 Viewers)

Briles · Sep 25, 2019

I have been reading the Deloitte UK Annual review of football finance 2019 (You know as you do) and I noticed the following bit:

(Link to full report can be found here)

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/d...uk-annual-review-of-football-finance-2019.pdf)

With the gap widening from top of league 1 and bottom of Championship, do we think SISU would be able (or willing) to make up the additional funds? In the case of last year that would be £8 million just on wages. If we do not get promoted this season, and the gap continues to widen, do we think that the carrot of championship football will seem less and less appealing to them? Or would the potential for outside investors to contribute still keep them interested?

Coventry are referenced in the report with regards to attendances and ownership etc if you just hit control F.

Its a good read.

clint van damme · Sep 25, 2019

I seem to post the same thing on all of these threads but surely it's not sustainable?

Briles · Sep 25, 2019

clint van damme said:
I seem to post the same thing on all of these threads but surely it's not sustainable?

Its definitely not sustainable for football in general. I can understand why the Championship are talking of a breakaway league. The chasm will become so vast that unless you are bought by a Billionaire Consortium your'e screwed.

SkyBlueScottie · Sep 25, 2019

In short, no they won't, they didn't fancy it when we had a wage bill of 8 million per year...

JulianDarbyFTW · Sep 25, 2019

I guess our best long-term hope re: sustainability is to get promoted, retain the bulk of the existing squad, pay a bit more in wages (I assume the players have wage rise / drop clauses in the contracts based on promotion and relegation) and accept an immediate relegation in exchange for the additional money the Championship brings. If you can become a yo-yo club and keep the purse strings under control, you can steadily grow the bank balance until you reach a point that a financially safe investment in players is possible and staying up is sustainable.

Gibbo · Sep 25, 2019

...which is why I am puzzled as to why SISU are supporting any kind of drive for promotion. The cost of being in the Championship let alone challenging is reckoned to be £40 m or so. Surely beyond SISU's investment criteria, whatever they may be

robbiekeane · Sep 25, 2019

Gibbo said:
which is why I am puzzled as to why SISU are supporting any kind of drive for promotion.

What are you talking about?

skybluesam66 · Sep 25, 2019

Maybe they would then have an asset worth selling
A debt free championship club. How much of their £40m or so investment could they get back for that
Certainly a lot more than a league 2 club which was when Hoffman was sniffing around

Sick Boy · Sep 25, 2019

Gibbo said:
...which is why I am puzzled as to why SISU are supporting any kind of drive for promotion. The cost of being in the Championship let alone challenging is reckoned to be £40 m or so. Surely beyond SISU's investment criteria, whatever they may be

I suspect it would present the best opportunity to sell and to put pressure on the franchise to offer us a deal in our favour.

Sick Boy · Sep 25, 2019

skybluesam66 said:
Maybe they would then have an asset worth selling
A debt free championship club.

Are you Ray Ranson?

SkyBlueScottie · Sep 25, 2019

JulianDarbyFTW said:
I guess our best long-term hope re: sustainability is to get promoted, retain the bulk of the existing squad, pay a bit more in wages (I assume the players have wage rise / drop clauses in the contracts based on promotion and relegation) and accept an immediate relegation in exchange for the additional money the Championship brings. If you can become a yo-yo club and keep the purse strings under control, you can steadily grow the bank balance until you reach a point that a financially safe investment in players is possible and staying up is sustainable.

I thought that initially, but then read that league 1 teams get the same amount whether they win the league or finish 18th... So I think any outgoings will dwarve any potential positional prize money you potentially achieve in the championship.

Gibbo · Sep 25, 2019

robbiekeane said:
What are you talking about?

1. Ultimately, they stand the past losses. If they called the loans in......
2. Given that they could easily take the Bayliss money against previous loans but it would appear have not. Godden appears to have cost more than the profit on Chaplin
3. The business does have a forward facing strategy, no matter how cheap skate it is not like, say, Oldham, who also do not own their ground
4. It has taken 13+ years but I think they have finally worked how to run a lower tier football club at something approaching break even. They are not very bright.
5. The Championship just looks too expensive to me (altho I know nothing about footie finance) because it is a 1 in 8 bet to make nine times your investment: 24 clubs, 3 promotion spots, £350m for getting in the Prem, £40m per annum costs to do so. In order to keep City in the Championship, SISU would be spending about the same amount in a year, as they currently value the club at. The high cost is why Bolton, Burton, Rotherham come back down.

Gibbo · Sep 25, 2019

Incidentally, which is why Robins sis so important. IIRC we have had 9 managers under SISU and apart from 4-5 months of Mowbray, only Robins has shown a) he can work within tight financial guidelines and at the same time b) get some success. If he goes will it take another 9? I suspect he's on a good wedge

robbiekeane · Sep 25, 2019

Gibbo said:
he can work within tight financial guidelines

Tight financial guidelines? What are they? Relative to who?

robbiekeane · Sep 25, 2019

Gibbo said:
1. Ultimately, they stand the past losses. If they called the loans in......
2. Given that they could easily take the Bayliss money against previous loans but it would appear have not. Godden appears to have cost more than the profit on Chaplin

What does 1 even mean? How do you know about 2?

The fact is SISU haven’t suddenly decided to “fund a promotion push”, just like they didn’t pull the funds out from anyone who did shit in the last 4/5 years. Don’t know where it comes from, people are obsessed with them

fatso · Sep 26, 2019

Gibbo said:
...which is why I am puzzled as to why SISU are supporting any kind of drive for promotion. The cost of being in the Championship let alone challenging is reckoned to be £40 m or so. Surely beyond SISU's investment criteria, whatever they may be

Your assuming sisu would be trying to compete in the championship. In reality, promotion would be great for the fans, but wouldn't bring significant investment from sisu in terms of signings, we would then have to survive with the players we have, or be ready to expect relegation again.

Covstu · Sep 26, 2019

To be fair I didn’t think they would invest in us in league one but they have. The championship itself is two maybe three tiers so to compete in the upper would take massive investment or a team that has clicked. We get a decent longer term deal at the Ricoh and we are quite marketable for investors

Magwitch · Sep 26, 2019

What do you call investment, we have used money generated from out going transfers that’s happened here for years, I remember Tommy Hutchison, Colin Stein and a young Jim Blythe being signed from the at the time huge £200k fee we got off Arsenal for Jeff Blockley and I think Dion Dublin came from some of the Phil Babb fee, the pressure is to spend it correctly

fatso · Sep 26, 2019

Covstu said:
To be fair I didn’t think they would invest in us in league one but they have. The championship itself is two maybe three tiers so to compete in the upper would take massive investment or a team that has clicked. We get a decent longer term deal at the Ricoh and we are quite marketable for investors

What investment?
The reality is we lost some of our big earners in the summer, and then sold Bayliss for around £2million (according to reports)
The majority of our new signings were free, with our biggest outlay being the £600k spent on Godden.
Granted, sisu are still covering any operating losses, but the playing side of things has, at the very least been self supporting.

Liquid Gold · Sep 26, 2019

The cost of being competitive in the championship is insane. the cost of being in the Championship is no more than the cost of being in League 1 if you don't want it to be. Spend £1m on a couple of players like we've done in the last few years and say you trust in your young players to push on. Even if we end up finishing dead last with 0 points the club will have bought in a hell of a lot more cash. Of course it is worth it being in the Championship, so basic it is beyond belief.

SkyBlueDom26 · Sep 26, 2019

Hopefully we get promoted, wasps go bust then SISU piss off and sell us to billionaires

ccfcricoh · Sep 26, 2019

We'll easily plug an £8m gap, at £300 its only an extra 26k season tickets, we'd be back at the Ricoh and we'd only need all the NOPM folk that came before we moved to come back........oh wait

SkyBlueDom26 · Sep 26, 2019

ccfcricoh said:
We'll easily plug an £8m gap, at £300 its only an extra 26k season tickets, we'd be back at the Ricoh and we'd only need all the NOPM folk that came before we moved to come back........oh wait

We'd get 17-20k if we moved back to the ricoh as a championship team, hopefully more

Legia Sky Blue · Sep 26, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
We'd get 17-20k if we moved back to the ricoh as a championship team, hopefully more

I'm not so sure - we have lost a lot of fans who are now out of the habit of going. We could only hope for 17-20k if we were at the top end of the league. If we are towards the bottom end we would do well to average 15k.

covcity4life · Sep 26, 2019

Legia Sky Blue said:
I'm not so sure - we have lost a lot of fans who are now out of the habit of going. We could only hope for 17-20k if we were at the top end of the league. If we are towards the bottom end we would do well to average 15k.

alot of those fans boycotted when we were shit without any hope#

off back of a double promotion we might see a lil bump. i would expect 15k avg in championship at ricoh

Sick Boy · Sep 26, 2019

covcity4life said:
alot of those fans boycotted when we were shit without any hope#

off back of a double promotion we might see a lil bump. i would expect 15k avg in championship at ricoh

I agree but think we'd be looking at around 18K.

shmmeee · Sep 26, 2019

Historically it’s a pretty solid 30% bump from promotion. Obviously we don’t know what we’d currently be getting at the Ricoh, but 12k is a fair low ball so that’s 15.6k after promotion. You’d need more like 14k to get up to 18.2k, possible in a promotion season, but not as likely I’d guess.

Hard to put a number on non promotion seasons because we tend to either to badly or get promoted But I’d guess +/-10% a year depending on form is reasonable. So we could push up towards 20k if we stayed around for a while, but I can’t see that happening without investment.

ccfc1234 · Sep 26, 2019

Success has many friends, failure is a loner.

robbiekeane · Sep 27, 2019

Do people know what the world investment means? Makes me giggle

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