We just had hard left and hard right. I didn't vote.Everyone is either right or left wing. Even centrists are just a mix of right and left wing policies. But each policy follows one of the other ideal.
You’re not in the middle, you just have a mix of policy ideas, same as everyone else.
The trick is the messaging. We’ve just elected a hard right government in centrist clothing because they knew without spending promises they wouldn’t get elected. Same as Corbyn knew without a better tax, crime and national security message than he had he wouldn’t.
What worries me is it’s not economics that’s making people decide these days. It’s social values. This country has always been socially conservative and soft left economically. Since the 80s Labour has been remaking itself as a socially liberal party first and a left wing party second, and that fell apart spectacularly last week. I’m not sure there’s a majority in England and Wales for a socially liberal party right now. But if Labour goes more socially conservative on things like immigration and political correctness, they’ll open up that flank to the Greens and Lib Dem’s in the cities. It also goes against the ethos of most of the new membership and the PLP.
I think they’ll get the economics right. They’ll tone it down and start from where the voter is next time (I hope). I’m more worried that we’ll double down on the culture wars and the demographics don’t support that.
So are you saying that the ideas were not wrong but agree that the ideas were wrong?
you should have worn a condom.I've girl friends who've not done a days work since they left school 30 years ago who've had child after child just to get out of working.
those fucking mancs, coming here, stealing our jobs.While I’m here anyone who genuinely has an issue with immigration can block me right now and never see the amazing library of gifs I’ve still got to share. And if anyone think they are going to ‘send me back’ good luck packing me off to Jamaica, South Africa, Scotland, The Netherlands and that one last little bit to Manchester.
Lib Dems should be doing so much better.
I just wonder how much better they would have done without the stop Brexit policy.
Back in the Charles Kennedy days they were left of Labour!Ive never really understood by anyone would vote Lib Dem
Back in the Charles Kennedy days they were left of Labour!
They're the only ones whose sums added up this time around.They are just a rag rag bunch of freaks and weirdos - most who vote for them have no idea what the policies are.
Not checked the math they claimed but the theme was the same for all manifestos.They're the only ones whose sums added up this time around.
Rumours that Jo Swinson will be rewarded for her stunning success as party leader with a place in the Lords!Lib Dems should be doing so much better.
Time that place was seriously slimmed down and reformed.Rumours that Jo Swinson will be rewarded for her stunning success as party leader with a place in the Lords!
Rumours that Jo Swinson will be rewarded for her stunning success as party leader with a place in the Lords!
None at all, no reason why UKIP can't become a party that favours unlimited immigration or the Brexit Party support remain.Can you explain to me why certain parties should be left wing and right wing?
Personally I like to have a choice and going back to 'New Labour' and that choice being between a blue Tory and a red Tory doesn't exactly inspire.What is wrong with a party closer to the middle.....similar to 'New Labour'?
In which case lets stop subsidising things. At the moment is we're caught between state owned and privately owned. Taxpayers are expected to fund the non-profit making parts of an industry while others walk off with the profits. If we're rejecting publicly owned shouldn't we see that through to its conclusion?
Can you explain to me why certain parties should be left wing and right wing?
This is why we have people that will only ever vote Labour or Tories. The other parties will never get much of a chance. It is why one party overspends and the other party brings in austerity. Austerity affects less people than the side that ends austerity by spending.
What is wrong with a party closer to the middle.....similar to 'New Labour'?
Yes big mistakes were made. Like taking us to war on a lie, speeding up privatisation of the NHS or taking away decent pensions for all. But most of it worked. Labour voters had Labour in power and Tory voters had a government they could trust not to wreck the economy.
Left wing and right wing are ideals. But the most ideal is somewhere in the middle.
At one point I hoped we might see the more centrist Conservative and Labour MPs move across to the Lib Dems and end up with 3 roughly equal parties. Seems there was too many egos involved for that to happen. Suspect if they had done that more might have followed, was always a tough sell to get sitting MPs to walk to an entirely new party with a high risk of then losing their seat.I actually agree with you on this. But isn't that what the Lib Dems are?
Or perhaps the moderate form their own breakaway party...pretty quickly If possible. Then the next election will see the rest off. But they won’t win any election until momentum is stopped. It could take 15 years.I cannot believe some labour supporters are in denial like Richard Burgon etc.
Totally deluded still saying left wing policies are the way forward and supporting Corbyn/McDonnells ideology.
Left wing socialism is dead,People don’t want it what part do they not understand???
They need to get out of that champagne socialist London bubble and speak to the working classes they lost up north and the midlands.
Sons of miners voting Conservative I thought I’d never see it.
The Labour Party need rid of momentum just like Militant tendancy in the 80’s and ask themselves do they want to govern again?
Because if they do I’m afraid all you left wing followers are going to have to move to the centre like Blair did.
I know that will hurt you to hear but the truth hurts I’m afraid.
End of rant!!!
Lib Dems should be doing so much better.
I just wonder how much better they would have done without the stop Brexit policy.
As I’ve said there’s arguments for each of the policies if you ignore the negative implications !
I know the potential benefits of nationalisation ...but saying you would nationalise rail and utilities and give free broadband for all and there wouldn’t be a cost to the wider public is loony left !
companies gifting employees shares or having share schemes isn’t loony left (I’m all for it as it encourages employee ‘buy in’).....the state forcing all of companies of a certain size to do this, is !
Because UK investors are smart enough to avoid it? Aren't the major shareholders a British group?An Italian state run company has just taken over the West Coast line. Abellio and Deutsche Bahn have also had big sway over our networks for years. Why is it we’re so happy to let other foreign states control our railways instead of our own?
Because UK investors are smart enough to avoid it?
who operates it? Makes it work?So why did East Coast do fine under state ownership?
An Italian state run company has just taken over the West Coast line. Abellio and Deutsche Bahn have also had big sway over our networks for years. Why is it we’re so happy to let other foreign states control our railways instead of our own?
A free market seems to be good until it goes against the point being made.Because UK investors are smart enough to avoid it? Aren't the major shareholders a British group?
People comparing our train services to European ones should welcome the expertise of these European companies.
Those arguing for EU free market etc. can't complain when they invest in the UK
I'm sure you'll be saying left wing socialism is dead next time you use the NHS you helmetI cannot believe some labour supporters are in denial like Richard Burgon etc.
Totally deluded still saying left wing policies are the way forward and supporting Corbyn/McDonnells ideology.
Left wing socialism is dead,People don’t want it what part do they not understand???
They need to get out of that champagne socialist London bubble and speak to the working classes they lost up north and the midlands.
Sons of miners voting Conservative I thought I’d never see it.
The Labour Party need rid of momentum just like Militant tendancy in the 80’s and ask themselves do they want to govern again?
Because if they do I’m afraid all you left wing followers are going to have to move to the centre like Blair did.
I know that will hurt you to hear but the truth hurts I’m afraid.
End of rant!!!
I’d said numerous time’s BSB that this half in half out rail situation needs resolution ie potentially even the gradual returning to public ownership (and would’ve received public support). My point was the ideological drive regarding the various matters listed (nationalisation of utilities, free broadband for all, forcing companies to give 10% of companies to their employees etc) and then stating only the super rich will pay was nonsense and the public saw through it/didn’t want it.
Good evening to you to:cigar::woot::finger:I'm sure you'll be saying left wing socialism is dead next time you use the NHS you helmet
Because UK investors are smart enough to avoid it? Aren't the major shareholders a British group?
People comparing our train services to European ones should welcome the expertise of these European companies.
Those arguing for EU free market etc. can't complain when they invest in the UK
Unrelated but why has there been almost total radio silence from the Mogg since the election was called and even now after it?
So we should welcome the expertise of the European companies - who're owned by their governments. Thus totally negating any argument you won't have the knowledge or expertise in a state owned company. We could have our own railways being successful and investing in the European ones and making money for ourselves - after all the most successful period for the ECML in recent years has when the govt has had to take back control of it after a private sector fuck-up. Then picked a new franchise and it went shit again so they had to pick up the pieces.
The argument that state owned companies owning railways won't work is a complete nonsense when you look at countries that have them and have more reliable services, cheaper tickets and profit from them. So much so they've got money left to buy into and profit from ours.
Same reason as the potential Home Secretary
...being?
On many journeys we don’t have cheaper rail tickets
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?