SBAndy
Well-Known Member
How much of that - I wonder - is linked to the Tory manifesto pledge to cancel Leveson 2?
It also indisputable that Corbyn has been targeted relentlessly for 4 years in a way which I don’t think has been paralleled for decades. Lots of mud thrown in his direction and when you speak with some of those Tory voters it was the first thing that came to their mind. We also know that the Tories went all out on a misinformation campaign.
I'd say I'd be amazed if any public sector workers voted Tory... But I do know a couple!It is when you consider the public sector workforce is around 5-5.5m (if anyone has their voting split I’d like to see it)
Thats not me being confrontational, however, I’d imagine after a period of austerity, minimal wage increases etc they wouldn’t have been falling over themselves to vote Tory
I'd say I'd be amazed if any public sector workers voted Tory... But I do know a couple!
what? You mean labour, who’s irresponsible spending, left the nation in so much debt, and resulted in the conservatives having to resort to austerity measures in order to bring the country back from the brink of bankruptcy.
Well well well, Polish voters now calling for a referendum on Poland’s place in the EU, looks like Polexit could be the next big thing.
what? You mean labour, who’s irresponsible spending, left the nation in so much debt, and resulted in the conservatives having to resort to austerity measures in order to bring the country back from the brink of bankruptcy.
Global. Financial. Crash.Well well well, Polish voters now calling for a referendum on Poland’s place in the EU, looks like Polexit could be the next big thing.
what? You mean labour, who’s irresponsible spending, left the nation in so much debt, and resulted in the conservatives having to resort to austerity measures in order to bring the country back from the brink of bankruptcy.
Hopefully you'll be rewarded by not being axed in Cummings and Johnsons reorganisation of the service.Civil servant, seen a real terms reduction in pay of nearly 20 per cent since 2010, voted Tory for the first time. Price of protecting democracy.
What guess?Based on a guess
What guess?
OK. Why did Labour win the least amount of seats for 85 years?
There was polls on trust before the election. Corbyn didn't do very well in them.
Well well well, Polish voters now calling for a referendum on Poland’s place in the EU, looks like Polexit could be the next big thing.
what? You mean labour, who’s irresponsible spending, left the nation in so much debt, and resulted in the conservatives having to resort to austerity measures in order to bring the country back from the brink of bankruptcy.
What guess?
OK. Why did Labour win the least amount of seats for 85 years?
There was polls on trust before the election. Corbyn didn't do very well in them.
If you include teachers I know 2 and both were active in trying to get the Tory local MP elected
Fully agree. Couldn't bring myself to vote for Labour this time. Ended up not voting. Where I live in England is now a Tory seat. Labour don't hold a single seat in Cumbria. The Tories now hold every seat in Cumbria but one. And that is held by the Lib Dems.
How can Labour have lost a whole county up north without there being a major problem?
What guess?
OK. Why did Labour win the least amount of seats for 85 years?
There was polls on trust before the election. Corbyn didn't do very well in them.
The language isn’t helpful by Blair but he’s bang on about the level of support possible and it’s not enough to make a governmentThen join (or re-join) the party and have your say on who should be the next leader. If Labour want to have the broad church they talk about those people who say Labour has abandoned them for a far left rhetoric should fight for what they believe in, but they should also accept that there is a swathe of membership that will not accept a return to the Tory lite days. Labelling them ‘trots’ and thinking that the centrist position is more superior is exactly the same arrogant mistake that some of the hardcore remainers made about leave voters.
Why can't you just be honest to yourself like most people have been since we found out the result?Once we move onto a new leader... the same ‘misinformation’ will return, the same ‘trust’ issues will re-emerge. In fact unless Labour select a leader that is approved by Murdoch and the other media racists then exactly the same character assassination will occur.
It may well be true the next leader won’t have as many ‘skeletons’ to rattle, but it doesn’t matter when they can make shit up and it’s accepted verbatim.
We’ll be here again.
I still am a member. But I totally dislike the direction we are going in.Then join (or re-join) the party and have your say on who should be the next leader. If Labour want to have the broad church they talk about those people who say Labour has abandoned them for a far left rhetoric should fight for what they believe in, but they should also accept that there is a swathe of membership that will not accept a return to the Tory lite days. Labelling them ‘trots’ and thinking that the centrist position is more superior is exactly the same arrogant mistake that some of the hardcore remainers made about leave voters.
Was this aimed at me?The guess that johnson will do as he said he will. Based on 9 years of experiencing the lack of funding and disdain shown for those vulnerable and in need.
no point saying we’ll be tough on crime and reducing the police force by 20000
no point saying you want to recruit nurses and removing the bursary.
we shall see of course
It wasn’t aimed at you it was answering your question about trust. The populace have gone with a government they know they can’t trust based on experience because the one that wished to replace them couldn’t be trusted based on presumption.Was this aimed at me?
If so show me where I have said anything good about Boris. Ever.
Some need to stand back and think. Why did Labour have their worst result for 85 years when they were up against someone as bad as Boris?
But all we will get is excuses. It is all we ever get. Look at the abuse I got for saying we didn't have a chance with Corbyn as leader. Too many skeletons. No charisma. Plans that didn't add up. Too much debt would have been needed.
But no. Let's blame the media. It is as though all media was on the side of the Tories. We all know that wasn't the case.
We need Labour to change direction otherwise we will be stuck with the Tories for years.
I have been honest - but this is a multi-faceted problem and this is one of the big aspects of that.Why can't you just be honest to yourself like most people have been since we found out the result?
It wasn’t aimed at you it was answering your question about trust. The populace have gone with a government they know they can’t trust based on experience because the one that wished to replace them couldn’t be trusted based on presumption.
Exactly Pete but unfortunately that reflects badly on current labour leadership (when all campaign Labour focussed on Johnson being untrustworthy...with some good reasons)
We’ll have to see if he delivers. I personally think he will because if he doesn’t there is no way they will get a fifth term
ps caveat is labour at least picking a half decent leader and pitching manifesto at voting public not just their own membership !
Salt & vinegar?Presumably both in senior management earning £60k+
Therein lies part of the problem. I am not going to pay to decide who leads the party I may or may not vote for in 4-5yrs time. It is up to the keen in the party to decide who they think will be best placed to convince me come the day that Labour are a better option to what I already have, & what is proposed by their competitors.Then join (or re-join) the party and have your say on who should be the next leader. If Labour want to have the broad church they talk about those people who say Labour has abandoned them for a far left rhetoric should fight for what they believe in, but they should also accept that there is a swathe of membership that will not accept a return to the Tory lite days. Labelling them ‘trots’ and thinking that the centrist position is more superior is exactly the same arrogant mistake that some of the hardcore remainers made about leave voters.
Problem? Only one?The problem is infighting in Labour.
On one side the left who are convinced they can push on with the same manifesto under a new leader.
On the right are those who think a Blair clone banging on about remain will do it.
Botg sides need to get real, compromise, unite behind the new leader with a far simpler message than the last manifesto and drop all the remain talk.
Salt & vinegar?
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Problem? Only one?
The party was taken too far to the left. Too many things didn't add up. The public don't want left wing mentalists like they don't want right-wing mentalists. They want somewhere in the middle.
Yes.....someone like Bliar. Wonder how that will work out.
What we need is someone with direction. Someone who follows what they believe. A likeable character. Someone without baggage that can be jumped on. Someone confident but not overconfident. And most of all someone who can unite the whole Labour party.
Once we move onto a new leader... the same ‘misinformation’ will return, the same ‘trust’ issues will re-emerge. In fact unless Labour select a leader that is approved by Murdoch and the other media racists then exactly the same character assassination will occur.
It may well be true the next leader won’t have as many ‘skeletons’ to rattle, but it doesn’t matter when they can make shit up and it’s accepted verbatim.
We’ll be here again.
The denial going on is just as bad. And it causes a lot of the infighting. People trying to blame outside forces and not what is wrong with the basics could keep us continuing as we are. And it isn't what the public wants.No there wasn't only one as I've said in previous posts but all the others are irrelevant if the infighting doesn't stop because the party needs some consensus to move forward.
Trust in the press and circulation figures are at all time lows. People aren’t stupid. Been listening to James O’Brien and the people who voted Tory all had reasonable reasons for it. Whether it’s IRA connections, inability to speak to anyone but the bottom rung, or Brexit. They weren’t sheeple indoctrinated by big bad Murdoch.
Frankly even if they are, is it really that wrong to suck a little Murdoch dick to get elected when the alternative is a Tory government?
Misread that as ‘suck Murdochs little dick’ to start with (which amused me)
The denial going on is just as bad. And it causes a lot of the infighting. People trying to blame outside forces and not what is wrong with the basics could keep us continuing as we are. And it isn't what the public wants.
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