Getting back investment (1 Viewer)

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

A house is only worth as much as someone is prepared to pay for it, regardless of what's been spent on it.
Who on earth would pay enough money for CCFC so that sisu get their investment back?
She's living in her own little world where no-one else, particularly coventry fans or council taxpayers, matter to her.

hill83 · Sep 26, 2013

Couldn't the same be said for the value of buying the Ricoh? Just saying.

Nick · Sep 26, 2013

What do tax payers have to do with it?

I know because it is the council but how would tax payers lose out? If council investments make loads of money do tax payers get a rebate / discount the same as if they lose money do rates go up? Genuine question.

Nick · Sep 26, 2013

hill83 said:
Couldn't the same be said for the value of buying the Ricoh? Just saying.

Exactly, surely market values for that have changed.

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

Because council taxpayers money paid for the Ricoh to be built? It's our stadium.
The point I'm making is Not saying we'd lose out but that she doesn't give a toss about anyone in coventry, just her precious investors.

Same could be said for worth of the Ricoh, but I'm pretty sure even without a team playing in it it is 'worth' more than the football club.
If I had the money if sooner buy the stadium than ccfc

Nick · Sep 26, 2013

Was it proven that it was tax payers money? If the tax payers own it then why have they never had a share of the profits?

How would it make a difference to the tax payer if it was sold for £100 million or given away for free?

hill83 · Sep 26, 2013

AJB1983 said:
Because council taxpayers money paid for the Ricoh to be built? It's our stadium.
The point I'm making is Not saying we'd lose out but that she doesn't give a toss about anyone in coventry, just her precious investors.

Same could be said for worth of the Ricoh, but I'm pretty sure even without a team playing in it it is 'worth' more than the football club.
If I had the money if sooner buy the stadium than ccfc

It's definitely worth more than the club. I'd sooner buy the stadium too, isn't that what Sisu are getting slated for trying to do?

Spionkop · Sep 26, 2013

Joy Sepalla says in her 'interview', "It is not fair what’s being done to them."
Joy - you did it to us.

hill83 · Sep 26, 2013

Spionkop said:
Joy Sepalla says in her 'interview', "It is not fair what’s being done to them."
Joy - you did it to us.

There's another thread for that.

kingharvest · Sep 26, 2013

The council are elected by the people to essentially spend taxpayers money on 'running' the city. They are also elected to develop the city.

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

Which is why I'd be disgusted if sisu owned the Ricoh.
I've said before CCFC should at some point be able to own some or all of it (let's not forget they couldn't afford to build it so have no divine right to it), but no way should they if sisu are the owners.

Hobo · Sep 26, 2013

Do you remember reading about those bankers who lost money on investments so they invested more and lost so they invested more and sunk and sunk but they had to get their return...sod home owners or the world economy....Joy Sepalla the sitting duck treading water.

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

The way they've gone about this is nothing short of disgusting

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

Interesting to see whose pensions she's gambling with in the hope CCFC one day make a return?

Covstu · Sep 26, 2013

AJB1983 said:
Which is why I'd be disgusted if sisu owned the Ricoh.
I've said before CCFC should at some point be able to own some or all of it (let's not forget they couldn't afford to build it so have no divine right to it), but no way should they if sisu are the owners.

Persoanlly i think this is the issue, fans blind hatred for anything SISU is making them miss the point entirely. The club needs the ground and as JS stated they will not budge until a ROI has been made, the only way that can happen is to enact revenue streams by buying the ground. This is the only way they will release the club. I think they would rather seen it burn than sell it off as a loss.

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

The only way they'll ever get their investment back is by promotion to premiership and staying there....can anyone realistically see this happening anytime soon under their stewardship? Getting an extra 100k a year from pies and drinks won't get them their money back.

Covstu · Sep 26, 2013

No but through concerts, not paying rent etc that certainly adds to it. We have every chance of getting promoted, if we didnt have 10 points off we would be sitting in about 7th at the moment alone. They have been clear that there will be no more jouneymen on expensive contracts but younger players who are hungry to prove their worth. If this ethos is supported then i cannot see why we cannot return to the championship at least.

hill83 · Sep 26, 2013

AJB1983 said:
The only way they'll ever get their investment back is by promotion to premiership and staying there....can anyone realistically see this happening anytime soon under their stewardship? Getting an extra 100k a year from pies and drinks won't get them their money back.

Ah, the pies rhetoric. It's not about pies. It's about the turnover of the whole stadium which allows the club more spending power under FFP.
And you were doing so well.

mrbluesky87 · Sep 26, 2013

Covstu said:
Persoanlly i think this is the issue, fans blind hatred for anything SISU is making them miss the point entirely. The club needs the ground and as JS stated they will not budge until a ROI has been made, the only way that can happen is to enact revenue streams by buying the ground. This is the only way they will release the club. I think they would rather seen it burn than sell it off as a loss.

Its the hatred for SISU that will never change and its easy to explain until your blue in the face but It will not change my view or thousand of other fans view, we all know what is required to be a successfull football club, just not with SISU. The line was crossed.

Covstu · Sep 26, 2013

mrbluesky87 said:
Its the hatred for SISU that will never change and its easy to explain until your blue in the face but It will not change my view or thousand of other fans view, we all know what is required to be a successfull football club, just not with SISU. The line was crossed.

so then we stay in northampton until the new stadium has been built.......happy now??

Oh i forgot NOPM & KCIC!!!

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

The 'pies and drinks' are a metaphor for everything else. (Can I get away with that)
Let's take the £1m profit acl accounts last showed....I still don't think an extra million would make the difference....and that was based on average crowds in region of 14k?
They've lost too many paying customers...
Acl on the other hand, if they were to stage a one direction concert for example they would still sell out -they haven't alienated their customer base. Of course CCFC getting a share of revenue from such an event would be welcome but it wouldn't be megabucks....it's the promoters and acts that make the most from these events

mrbluesky87 · Sep 26, 2013

Covstu said:
so then we stay in northampton until the new stadium has been built.......happy now??

Oh i forgot NOPM & KCIC!!!

Here we go, correct I am a fully pledged member of both campaigns.:blue:

As for staying in Northampton, we are anyway, neither side want to talk to each other and ACL will not sell to SISU of which many fans agree despite their blame for both sides. Happy??? In heaven. :facepalm:

skybluesam66 · Sep 26, 2013

as for the council - their net investment was not very much
If the lease was sold for a realistic market value - the council would not be out of pocket

now based upon septic talking about £20m for a small stadium, I imagine a realistic price for the ricoh is around £40m

at this price neither the council nor higgs would be out of pocket
the club would be back at the ricoh and all would be happy

without a deal - the ricohs value will decline, and then taxpayers could lose out

Nick · Sep 26, 2013

Again, how will tax payers lose out? This is what I don't get.

If SISU were to get the Ricoh for free, would council tax go up? If SISU bought it for £100m, would counxil tax go down?

Genuine question as I don't know how it works.

chiefdave · Sep 26, 2013

Nick said:
Again, how will tax payers lose out? This is what I don't get.

If SISU were to get the Ricoh for free, would council tax go up? If SISU bought it for £100m, would counxil tax go down?

Genuine question as I don't know how it works.

In theory there's 2 potential ways taxpayers could lose out.

Let's say the Ricoh is worth £40 and after paying off ACL to buy out the lease (possibly cancelled out with the loan) to be able to hand it all over to a third party at market rate the council would end up with £25m profit (no idea on the figure, just using them to illustrate a point). Handing over the Ricoh to SISU for nothing would mean a 'loss' of that £25m. Now of course you could argue would the residents of Coventry ever see the benefit of that money, either through lower council tax or improved services is a totally different debate.

Second way I can think of it more long term. If, and we don't know for sure one way or the other, ACL run at a profit without CCFC at some point in the future they will pay off the loan and start paying dividends, 50% of which would go to the council and, as above, should in theory trickle down in some way to taxpayers.

Nick · Sep 26, 2013

How would it trickle down to the tax payers? Would they get rebates on council tax?

Everybody keeps saying it will be detrimental to the council tax payers and they will lose out, but how will they?

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 26, 2013

chiefdave said:
Let's say the Ricoh is worth £40

I'll offer them £50, and offer it to the club at cost for games... job done, everyone's a winner

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 26, 2013

chiefdave said:
Second way I can think of it more long term. If, and we don't know for sure one way or the other, ACL run at a profit without CCFC at some point in the future they will pay off the loan and start paying dividends, 50% of which would go to the council and, as above, should in theory trickle down in some way to taxpayers.

Yeah the important thing here isn't necessarily just that though, it's also what other benefits a football club brings beyond ACL and profit.

I'd suggest in terms of identity, recognition, and the increased spending of leisure not just in the Ricoh, but the city as a whole (OK, the last could be replaced I suppose, if ACL is profitable) a football club counts for a lot.

Nick · Sep 26, 2013

I agree with it bringing in business but what was the Ricoh used for on non match days by people who didn't work except for the Casino? I wouldn't say it was a community asset.

I'd say a community asset is something that can't be lived without, can people live without the Ricoh without the football team?

AJB1983 · Sep 26, 2013

Conferences and exhibitions on a weekly if not daily basis.

Nonleagueherewecome · Sep 26, 2013

Covstu said:
Persoanlly i think this is the issue, fans blind hatred for anything SISU is making them miss the point entirely. The club needs the ground and as JS stated they will not budge until a ROI has been made, the only way that can happen is to enact revenue streams by buying the ground. This is the only way they will release the club. I think they would rather seen it burn than sell it off as a loss.

It's not blind hatred; it's hatred for very really, tangible reasons. Why don't hate them for the sake of it, you know! Cause & effect

:blue:

Nick · Sep 26, 2013

AJB1983 said:
Conferences and exhibitions on a weekly if not daily basis.

Why does that matter to 99% of the Coventry tax payers though?

Nonleagueherewecome · Sep 26, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
as for the council - their net investment was not very much
If the lease was sold for a realistic market value - the council would not be out of pocket

now based upon septic talking about £20m for a small stadium, I imagine a realistic price for the ricoh is around £40m

at this price neither the council nor higgs would be out of pocket
the club would be back at the ricoh and all would be happy

without a deal - the ricohs value will decline, and then taxpayers could lose out

And when should we be expecting this £40m bid from SISU? Sometime around the melth of Soctember?

thaiskyblue · Sep 26, 2013

12th of never .

chiefdave · Sep 26, 2013

Nick said:
How would it trickle down to the tax payers? Would they get rebates on council tax?

Everybody keeps saying it will be detrimental to the council tax payers and they will lose out, but how will they?

Probably depends on how people are defining losing out. I see what you mean, assuming the council aren't out of pocket (ie: the loan get paid back) then if SISU were handed the Ricoh tomorrow you wouldn't see your council tax bill go up or down or anything change. I guess that some people are talking about tax payers losing out as they no longer own an asset (not sure that has any real impact, if the council owned an office building and gave it to someone would anyone care?) or they are talking about future potential income.

Can't remember any details without looking them up but there was a council round here that recived a windfall from something and everyone got a huge discount on their council tax one year but really in the long term I don't think taxpayers are impacted one way or the other. A windfall from a sale would be a one off and will the profits year to year ever be that big that it has a noticeable impact on each resident of the city?

So people can make an argument that taxpayers lose out but if that's the only point to their arguement to me I don't think it really stands up to much in the grand scheme of things.

Of course the other thing to consider is if legally the council would be allowed to just handover an asset to the likes of SISU, think that may be a bigger issue.

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