Ground (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Feb 22, 2013

Say SISU go through with their threat.

They temporarily move us to Nene Park in the summer.

Whilst they pretend to be planning to build a new stadium but are really testing the water to see if ACL can survive without them.

I wonder how many Cov fans will travel?

Would it be an hour there and back to Nene Park?

I think it would get the capacity of the 6500k each match

Otis · Feb 22, 2013

I think they would get the capacity.

Wouldn't be surprised though if they didn't put up ticket prices as a result. And what would happen if we were say to move to Nene Park this season and then we go up.

6,500 in the Championship? Would be a massive chance missed.

I think an awful lot of fans wouldn't travel.

I might well be one of them.

lordsummerisle · Feb 22, 2013

The best response to this thread would be:

Old, going over.

Sky Blue Pete · Feb 22, 2013

I wouldn't/couldn't go

Otis · Feb 22, 2013

The best response to this thread would be:

Old, going over.

Or zero!!!

skyblueman · Feb 22, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
The best response to this thread would be:

Old, going over.

or HOG DAY

dongonzalos · Feb 22, 2013

Yes it would be a real shame. I know a lot will say we had poor attendances in the championship before.

However if we went into it on the back of a promotion especially via Wembley. If we had a little success then I think we would average 20-24k.

However I assume SISU's main focus is the Ricoh.

So they may sacrifice the attendances to achieve that aim.

I wonder how much of an impact it would have on Higgs, the Council and ACL.

That is the question that needs to be asked. Not how it will affect fans. SISU will not consider that.

They could make the move attempt to pacify fans by bluffing that it is in order to build a new stadium. Also bluffing the council, to make it look like a genuine worthwhile move.

When all it is, is a tactic one to see what happens to the Ricoh when it is empty. Put pressure on ACL for more favourable terms.

See if they could break ACL.

All hypothetical on my behalf of course.

Who would be the main ones who suffer SBA.

dongonzalos · Feb 22, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
The best response to this thread would be:

Old, going over.

Would you travel lord. (I don't know where you live)

Otis · Feb 22, 2013

On Summer Isle.

coundonskyblue · Feb 22, 2013

The outcome would be that the reduced income for the club would result in no money for a new £30m stadium.

This move would see the end of ccfc.

dongonzalos · Feb 22, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
The outcome would be that the reduced income for the club would result in no money for a new £30m stadium.

This move would see the end of ccfc.

I presume the 30 million (which I think it only half the real cost) doesn't exist as a new stadium would not be built.

That would be proposed to keep us the fans quite and an attempt the bluff the council that the move out the Ricoh has a permanent reason.

grego_gee · Feb 22, 2013

Nene park was a flat pack bought from IKEA.
they're going to repack it and move it to the memorial park!

imp:

Warwickhunt · Feb 22, 2013

Since the league sorted out the failings of the AFC Wimbledon & MK Dons debacle moving will not be as easy as everyone thinks

sky blue zam · Feb 22, 2013

i think as long as we dont move outside a certain zone permanently like wimbledon did and temporarily move and stay in the zone like rotherham did then the fa may allow it.

Ashdown1 · Feb 22, 2013

I pay to watch Coventry City home games in Coventry only, in fact if this bullshit isn't resolved by July I won't renew my ST anyway, I'll just buy single tickets. I'm pretty sure this would apply to 75% of ST holders, especially most of the older folk.

Otis · Feb 22, 2013

Remember TF's sweeping statements about CCFC being part of the community and the importance of Coventry itself to the club and how they want to be part of it.

Going to ring very hollow if we then go and move some 40 miles away.

dongonzalos · Feb 22, 2013

Otis said:
Remember TF's sweeping statements about CCFC being part of the community and the importance of Coventry itself to the club and how they want to be part of it.

Going to ring very hollow if we then go and move some 40 miles away.

Unfortunately I have now gone past the point of believing his statements.

I just listen to them and analyse them just in case.
However the real shame is I don't generally trust or believe them.

oldskyblue58 · Feb 22, 2013

just a thought but to break the current lease (which you would need to do or end up paying for 2 grounds) wouldnt CCFC have to go bust first? In which case (a) geography becomes less of a problem for us and FA/FL (b) we would drop down at least 2 divisions as New Co (c) the size of the stadium and build costs would be much smaller ???? of course income sources would be much smaller too etc etc

It doesnt make sense

Just thoughts:thinking about:

Grendel · Feb 22, 2013

We are not going anywhere. Why do we keep discussing it as if there is the remotest possibility?

skyblueman · Feb 22, 2013

Grendel said:
We are not going anywhere. Why do we keep discussing it as if there is the remotest possibility?

Agreed this is laughable

rupert_bear · Feb 22, 2013

Won't happen, can't happen. Rules are in place after the Wimbledon/MK Dons affair. Clubs not allowed to be moved from their local community and i take that as Coventry, not Warwickshire, we are not part of Warwickshire

lordsummerisle · Feb 22, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Would you travel lord. (I don't know where you live)

Live in Lincoln, work at Birmingham airport, often stay when working at my mums in Leamington.

Probably wouldn't go to Nene Park to be honest, though did when we beat Rushden in the League cup a few years ago, nice little ground, but would lose more money in lost balls going over the low stands than we'd save in rent at the Ricoh from what I remember.

Was probably the replacement football charges that caused Rushden to fold in the first place!

Jack Griffin · Feb 22, 2013

Just for clarity these are the league rules pertaining to ground share & location.
http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20120702/section-4-clubs_2293633_2125725

13.4 Ground sharing will only be approved at the discretion of the Board. The Board will not generally approve any ground-sharing arrangement where the club plays its matches outside the conurbation, as defined by the Board, from which the Club takes its name or with which it is otherwise traditionally associated.

13.5 Except in cases where a Club seeks consent to enter into a ground-sharing agreement with another Club, it shall be a condition of any such consent that the ground-sharing agreement shall contain provision to ensure that:

13.5.1 the playing of any of the Club's first team matches will always take precedence over the activities of the other party to the agreement; and

13.5.2 the Club shall have the ability to postpone other activities scheduled to take place on the pitch in the immediately preceding 48 hour period where in the opinion of the Club, acting reasonably, there is a risk that such activity may result in the subsequent postponement or abandonment of a match to be played under the auspices of the League.

13.6 Each Club shall register its ground with the Executive and no Club shall remove to another ground without first obtaining the written consent of the Board, such consent not to be unreasonably withheld.

13.7 In considering whether to give any such consent, the Board shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case and shall not grant consent unless it is reasonably satisfied that such consent:

13.7.1 would be consistent with the objects of The League as set out in the Memorandum of Association;

13.7.2 would be appropriate having in mind the relationship (if any) between the locality with which by its name or otherwise the applicant Club is traditionally associated and that in which such Club proposes to establish its ground;

13.7.3 would not adversely affect such Club's Officials, players, supporters, shareholders, sponsors and others having an interest in its activities;

13.7.4 would not have an adverse effect on visiting Clubs;

13.7.5 would not adversely affect Clubs having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location; and

13.7.6 would enhance the reputation of The League and promote the game of association football generally.

13.8 The Club must disclose, as soon as practicable, plans and details of any proposed future move to a new stadium. The location of the proposed new stadium must meet with the approval of the Board.

13.9 Subject to any dispensations granted by the Board, a Club shall either own its ground or have a legally enforceable agreement with its ground's owner for its use by the Club, expiring not earlier than the end of the current Season.

13.10 Each Club shall, provide the Executive with full copies of such documentation as the Executive may reasonably require to demonstrate the Club's ability to play fixtures at its ground. By way of example, and without limitation, this may include copies of HM Land Registry entries, copy leases, any licence to occupy and any sub-leases or licence relating thereto. The Executive shall maintain a register of Clubs and the basis upon which that Club occupies its ground.

13.11 Without prejudice to the provisions of Regulation 13.6, a Club shall forthwith notify the Executive of any proposed change in its circumstances relating to the occupation of its ground. By way of example, and without limitation, a proposed change may include a sale of any freehold interest (with or without subsequent leaseback) or any surrender or variation of a lease or licence.

dongonzalos · Feb 22, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Live in Lincoln, work at Birmingham airport, often stay when working at my mums in Leamington.

Probably wouldn't go to Nene Park to be honest, though did when we beat Rushden in the League cup a few years ago, nice little ground, but would lose more money in lost balls going over the low stands than we'd save in rent at the Ricoh from what I remember.

Was probably the replacement football charges that caused Rushden to fold in the first place!

Bloody hell travelling life.

I could only see it happening purely as another tactic with end game of owning part of the Ricoh.

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Feb 22, 2013

I've been a season ticket holder for 2 years, a fan since the day i was born and no matter what happens this season, promotion or not, i want another season ticket for next season. But i'm 17 years old, only been going to game son my own for 3 years and i havent got a car yet, so im not gonna be able to get all the way over to Nene Park, and i dare say a lot of other fans will not be able to get over there and a lot of fans cant be arsed to make the effort to get over there, so it isnt a viable solution IMO

Mucca Mad Boys · Feb 22, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
I've been a season ticket holder for 2 years, a fan since the day i was born and no matter what happens this season, promotion or not, i want another season ticket for next season. But i'm 17 years old, only been going to game son my own for 3 years and i havent got a car yet, so im not gonna be able to get all the way over to Nene Park, and i dare say a lot of other fans will not be able to get over there and a lot of fans cant be arsed to make the effort to get over there, so it isnt a viable solution IMO

Similar situation here. But, lets face it there's a 0% chance we'll move to Nene Park, just will not happen.

ashbyjan · Feb 22, 2013

I was in the Kettering area a couple of months ago when this issue was first raised and took a few minutes to go by Nene Park. A nice lady even let me into the ground. As it stands it is far too small for our needs but is in perfect condition. No weeds on the terraces, pitch in good nick, even the corner flags were in place. It looked like you could simply unlock the turnstiles and get going. Its a crime that a nice little ground like this isn't being used but it was one mans mad dream and when he got bored or ran out of money it was mothballed. It should be pointed out that Kettering played their for a while but decided they couldn't afford the £150k cost of playing there - £150k mmmm sounds a familiar number........could it be that for a similar overall cost we could simply stay at the Ricoh?

Ashdown1 · Feb 22, 2013

It won't happen I know but when you read articles today and fuel costs soon to be the most expensive ever try calculating the cost of an 80-100 mile round trip 26 times a season. I know a few would benefit further South but imagine the extra mileage for our Northern brigade. I can see it would quickly cost me an extra £400 per season in petrol plus wear and tear on the motor !

Mucca Mad Boys · Feb 22, 2013

ashbyjan said:
I was in the Kettering area a couple of months ago when this issue was first raised and took a few minutes to go by Nene Park. A nice lady even let me into the ground. As it stands it is far too small for our needs but is in perfect condition. No weeds on the terraces, pitch in good nick, even the corner flags were in place. It looked like you could simply unlock the turnstiles and get going. Its a crime that a nice little ground like this isn't being used but it was one mans mad dream and when he got bored or ran out of money it was mothballed. It should be pointed out that Kettering played their for a while but decided they couldn't afford the £150k cost of playing there - £150k mmmm sounds a familiar number........could it be that for a similar overall cost we could simply stay at the Ricoh?

If it is to be believed, the price for rent has been agreed, at 400k with this 'rebate', which is good. But to me, it seems that the stumbling block is the revenue streams and SISU want the 400k backdated, if I'm wrong I stand to be corrected but that's what I understand of it at the minute?

grego_gee · Feb 22, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
Just for clarity these are the league rules pertaining to ground share & location.
http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20120702/section-4-clubs_2293633_2125725

Thanks for re-posting that JG, Apparently none of that definitely rules out Nene Park.
13.4 would appear to be the only stumbling block, where the board would need to rule on what it considered to be Coventry's "conurbation" then if necessary whether they would make an exception for a temporary ground outside it. I think they would allow it if it was only temporary.
Nene Park itself would appear to be an excellent option.

Its pretty new,
Its fully available with no compromise on fixtures
It would probably cost much less than 100k pa
pretty accessible, the A14 is a direct route, and car sharing could be good.
the capacity (6.5k) is not a million miles off, given that some might not bother and perhaps it could be expanded.
maybe a ground that we can fill, (and expand) would suit us better than the Ricoh
a financial model based on this option would probably save the club money and make more money available to spend on the playing squad
that would give us a better chance to get back up!

I don't think it's as totally daft as suggested, and it perhaps demonstrates problems with the Ricoh.

imp:

antineorevolutionery · Feb 22, 2013

Rushden & Diamonds are/were my second team as I grew up in the town. Nene Park has always been a ground of a higher quality than the level of football there - Kevin Keegan once said the pitch was comparable to Wembley!

The club went from the Southern League up to the middle of League 1 in 2004, then Max Griggs (founder of the club, and owner of Doc Martens footwear) decided to sell up/withdraw funding. Coincidentally (or not so much) the club then plummeted to the Conference before going bust two years ago. Griggs decision to sell wasn't boredom, more to do with the fact that Doc Martens moved all of its manufacturing facilities to China, severely denting the local economy and giving Griggs a reason to pull out.

Kettering Town FC (local rivals/scum) had a good laugh at Rushden's expense and took over the ground, before then suffering a similar fate (now bottom of Evostick league).

For me, personally, if the club did move to Nene Park it would actually be easier to watch games. However, 1. it will never happen, 2. it clearly wouldn't benefit 99.9% of Cov fans, and 3. it would be financial suicide.

ccfctommy · Feb 22, 2013

rupert_bear said:
Won't happen, can't happen. Rules are in place after the Wimbledon/MK Dons affair. Clubs not allowed to be moved from their local community and i take that as Coventry, not Warwickshire, we are not part of Warwickshire

That's for permanent moved only. Brighton played in Gillingham for a few years.

ashbyjan · Feb 22, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
If it is to be believed, the price for rent has been agreed, at 400k with this 'rebate', which is good. But to me, it seems that the stumbling block is the revenue streams and SISU want the 400k backdated, if I'm wrong I stand to be corrected but that's what I understand of it at the minute?

The stumbling blocks outlined by Tim Fisher to the SCG were 1. More info about the F and B revenue streams 2. More info about financial stability of ACL 3. Need for break clauses in the remaining years of the 42 year lease/licence. He said they were happy with the rent agreed and as he didn't mention the back rent and didn't list it among the points to be resolved I would guess that is also agreed but that is an assumption on my part and its always dangerous to assume anything especially where CCFC is concerned.

Mucca Mad Boys · Feb 22, 2013

ashbyjan said:
The stumbling blocks outlined by Tim Fisher to the SCG were 1. More info about the F and B revenue streams 2. More info about financial stability of ACL 3. Need for break clauses in the remaining years of the 42 year lease/licence. He said they were happy with the rent agreed and as he didn't mention the back rent and didn't list it among the points to be resolved I would guess that is also agreed but that is an assumption on my part and its always dangerous to assume anything especially where CCFC is concerned.

I don't think they are unreasonable requests, do you?

In fairness, you can't assume anything as a Coventry City supporter.

oldskyblue58 · Feb 22, 2013

Seems pretty rerasonable SBT. But I think that is the point

However for instance, I do not see the insistence on the info regarding ACL though. There are published accounts and no requirement for ACL to give more information. It really isnt usual when taking on a lease let alone when just changing the rental value. When the ngotiations were going on for the charity shares due diligence should have covered that. ACL is clearly backed by the council. CCFC are only a tenant and should ACL fail then as is usual the lease would revert to the Council so no real problem there. Have CCFC opened their books to ACL? Apparently it is claimed to be because SISU are FSA registered..... well they were when they took over CCFC and didnt require that info then so why now....... SISU are not investing in ACL or advising ACL clients to invest in ACL. There is apparently no new lease being negotiated it is the amounts that are. So given all that it really shouldnt be a stumbling block but is made to be if you see what I mean

:thinking about:

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