Have I missed an academy update? (13 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Jul 20, 2016

Nick said:
The fa haven't said it's not an issue. I thought they had too

The club need to put a proposal together just as they did previously. It's been confirmed that the AEHC in it's current guise doesn't strictly meet the criteria. It also been pointed out that it seems that what the academy will have at AEHC once wasps have redeveloped will possibly be improved for the most part with some other facilities needing to be moved to Ryton or possibly somewhere like Warwick Uni.

Multiple sites not unusual for an academy, so no issues, FA guidelines being flexible nothing unusual, so no issue (I think its also been pointed out that even a money bags club like Man Cities academy doesn't strictly meet the requirements).

What does need to happen is CA needs to formulate a proposal to the FA to get it rubber stamped. He can't do that if he's not meeting the relevant parties to get the assurances and commitments he needs to formulate a proposal to the FA.

It's up to CA. Unfortunately we seem to be more interested in playing the victim than trying to find a solution.

Grendel · Jul 20, 2016

Orca said:
But it has been confirmed that the current arrangements do not fully pass but were still agreed. They've agreed to work with the relevant parties to make it pass

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Well they haven't but aside from that can someone tell me the fee wasps want the club to pay? I assume it's out there?

skybluetony176 · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
Oh it's been confirmed that the Acadamy can still have all it's occupation at the centre - sorry missed that bit. Where is that confirmed?

Also are the costs confirmed? Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick - I thought those details weren't public knowledge as they hadn't been forwarded to Anderson in advance.

What's the cost for renting then?

Ask Chris Anderson, he'll know. Oh wait, no he won't. He cancelled the meeting.

Orca · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
Well they haven't but aside from that can someone tell me the fee wasps want the club to pay? I assume it's out there?

Not that I've seen. 'Normal commercial rates' is what has been put in writing.

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Grendel · Jul 20, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Ask Chris Anderson, he'll know. Oh wait, no he won't. He cancelled the meeting.

But he would know as details would have been e mailed to him as standard practice surely? Wasps wouldn't be so unprofessional that they'd not do that i am sure.

Grendel · Jul 20, 2016

Orca said:
Not that I've seen. 'Normal commercial rates' is what has been put in writing.

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Could be £100k could be a million then. Who knows.

skybluetony176 · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
Indeed. A bit of spin is all it takes to fool some idiots

As you seem to have taken up the roll of CA's secretary when has he rearranged the meeting for.

skybluetony176 · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
But he would know as details would have been e mailed to him as standard practice surely? Wasps wouldn't be so unprofessional that they'd not do that i am sure.

Details of what? As far as we know CA hasn't told them what we need. How can we be discussing costs when we haven't discussed requirements.

You know what's needed here? A meeting.

Maybe we should get the church involved again. It's the only way our club seems to get involved in negotiations. If the local church is acting as a mediator holding our owners hand all the way.

Grendel · Jul 20, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Details of what? As far as we know CA hasn't told them what we need. How can we be discussing costs when we haven't discussed requirements.

You know what's needed here? A meeting.

Maybe we should get the church involved again. It's the only way our club seems to get involved in negotiations. If the local church is acting as a mediator holding our owners hand all the way.

So when accountant discusses accounts with clients he doesn't get them e mailed in advance?

It's standard practice.

What is your experience Tony? Do you get a pre read?

As a side note Tony how is the FTSE 250 doing?

dongonzalos · Jul 20, 2016

Nick said:
It was bigger news that CCFC were a non show, bigger news than waiting for it to come up in conversation at a trust meeting over a month later I would have thought.

It is almost as if it was meant to come out then for some reason, CSF even had a quote lined up for the next day and the telegraph had the article on there - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-md-pulls-out-11635112

It isn't fact, it is just opinion so probably could be well off the mark but it smacks of more PR game playing to me...This time the trust are in on it.

Simple fact is fans tried to get the three parties who can give the academy s future together.
One didn't turn up.
Now unless they all knew before that CA would except then pull out last minute. It's a bit far fetched to say it was planned PR that the trust are in on.
Simple fact is it gives the impression that only the other parties genuinely care about the future of the academy.
Whikst you are the one getting the blame for jeopardising the future of the academy. Then this happens of course you will talk about it.

Orca · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
Could be £100k could be a million then. Who knows.

Word from the SBT meeting was that is was lower than current fees for the use of the indoor facility. Do we know what they pay now? I guess it's not public domain knowledge and I'd guess the new figure won't be either.

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Nick · Jul 20, 2016

Orca said:
Word from the SBT meeting was that is was lower than current fees for the use of the indoor facility. Do we know what they pay now? I guess it's not public domain knowledge and I'd guess the new figure won't be either.

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Jan has corrected that also I think.

skybluetony176 · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
So when accountant discusses accounts with clients he doesn't get them e mailed in advance?

It's standard practice.

What is your experience Tony? Do you get a pre read?

As a side note Tony how is the FTSE 250 doing?

Accountants and the FTSE 250. You're in full distraction mode tonight. It's almost as if someone is pointing out the short comings in those who are responsible for the running of our club. Wait, that's exactly what has happened.

Pre read. I'm guessing that Wasps pre read would have been short. Something along the lines of if you want to talk to us about the use of the development at the AEHC for the academy please do.

Tell me. How could anyone but CA set the agenda for such a meeting? How would Wasps and CSF know what CCFC need from the development? Do either of those run a Cat 2 football academy? I'm guessing not. Do either of them parties understand what facilities can be homed at the AEHC and what could be homed elsewhere. There's only one party here who can take the lead on this and that's the party responsible for the academy.

Still you keep lining the excuses up for CA, you can blame everyone else then and enjoy playing the victim. It's what you're best at.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jul 20, 2016

Right do you lot I mean everybody on here do you want an academy or not it's that simple? Mr Anderson do you want an academy yes or no again quite simple? Wasps,Foundation do you want the academy to use your site yes or no again quite simple.
As for you Grendel stuff your emails,standard business bolocks up your arse stop being a prick just for once in your fucking life

Brylowes · Jul 20, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Nobody thought that CA's hands have been tied behind his back... What do you say to that JS???

Well of course, he hasn't decided to pull the plug on the academy, that decision has
been taken much higher up, but it's down to him to get the job done with as little bad
Feeling towards SISU as possible.
My guess is he knew there was an acceptable deal for the academy's future going
forward ( if they wanted it ) and had no choice but to cancel. I think there hope was
to pass blame onto others for the loss of the academy, the more that comes out it's
likely they may just have to man up and come clean.

Orca · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
So when accountant discusses accounts with clients he doesn't get them e mailed in advance?

It's standard practice.

What is your experience Tony? Do you get a pre read?

As a side note Tony how is the FTSE 250 doing?

They're not discussing accounts, they're discussing requirements. By definition a requirement is what a party needs to deliver a service or product that it requires, to a specification.

The specification has been worked out by SBT, and also members on here, by contacting the Football League. They can't speak for the club though. The specification needs to be defined by the end user. CCFC is the end user and they've not designed or offered a specification. They've not even turned up to the design meeting.

As an IT pro for nearly 30 years, customers who won't or can't give a spec, don't know what they want or are unwilling to proceed with you as a provider. I'm not sure which excuse CCFC might give for not providing their spec, but if they don't, they can't complain when the 'system' provided for them doesn't work.

So Grendel, that's my experience. The club need to be the user who defines the service, doing it the other way around means no one gets what they want.

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letsallsingtogether · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
Why won't they reveal what the other sites were do you think?

Maybe they are waiting for Sisu to reveal their sites first.......

letsallsingtogether · Jul 20, 2016

stupot07 said:
The first part is true the second point isn't. Even if they work with wasps and CSF and find alternative accommodation for everything else, there is no guarentee. CJ made it out that it would be a done deal and thr FL would approve it under those circumstances , but as Jan says in this thread, that was taken out of context and its still up to the FL/FA/PL and it could still not be enough to secure cat 2. The club should be exploring every avenue.

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But you are right the FA cannot compromise while certain parties don't want to talk.

letsallsingtogether · Jul 20, 2016

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
You've obviously seen Andersons response to this link?

No what he meant was he is waiting for a reply from the free paper journalist so he can then cream himself.
could then use that free paper to wipe up the mess after.....

Brylowes · Jul 20, 2016

Grendel said:
Why won't they reveal what the other sites were do you think?

Why would / should they ?

Captain Dart · Jul 20, 2016

I think the trust are wasting their time, the club isn't going to continue with a Cat 2 Academy, possibly not even a Cat 3.

Difficulties come from Wasps & CSF/Higgs but the decision comes from SISU no one else.

armybike · Jul 20, 2016

The question is will the reason for Anderson non-attendance ever been known?

CCFC haven't released a statement despite the info being in the public domain for two days.

Cov Tel have, according to their article, requested a comment from Anderson but the lack of updated would suggest no reply has been received.

Les Reid has taken a stance that other parties should be supplying info in writing to CCFC so unlikely to write an article about why Anderson didn't attend the meeting.

SBT haven't offered any info but is it their place and/or would they have been given specifics of the reason(s) for the plug being pulled.

The problem is the situation and uncertainty are just left hanging and more importantly actually getting the issue that should be the main focus is seemingly still on hold.

Brylowes · Jul 20, 2016

Captain Dart said:
I think the trust are wasting their time, the club isn't going to continue with a Cat 2 Academy, possibly not even a Cat 3.

Difficulties come from Wasps & CSF/Higgs but the decision comes from SISU no one else.

Spot on

chiefdave · Jul 20, 2016

Orca said:
I'd like to rent a car, and a provider offers me a car to rent and then I could say, ooh, I don't like that car much, I'm not going to bother. Would seem to be a convenient way out for me, yes?

It would be more like you asking a car rental place what they could rent to you and them refusing to tell you.

ashbyjan said:
People are putting there own interpretation on conversations etc and remember CJ is twittering in real time so some mistakes may occur - the only people who can state 100% that academy will pass is the FL and as no proposal has been put to them.

What is being suggested by the Trust is that by working with CSF and Wasps and filling in the gaps themselves by using Ryton or Warwick Uni the club could formulae a new proposal to be put to FL that could preserve the academy.

Nick said:
It's different to the impression put across originally.

This is what concerns me. The goalposts are already moving. They don't seem to me to be mistakes in tweeting or something getting lost in translation, the statements were pretty clear:
"The key point is, it can continue there. In better facilities than it has currently and for less money"
"It's pretty much what we get now. In some cases it's more than before"
"The proposed centre WILL pass the audit."
"At the new facility all parts of the academy can be based there and in theory only there"
Not much ambiguity there yet now its not less money, there is no proposal, let alone assure from the FA that it will pass and the academy facility can not be solely based at Higgs. That's pretty much the opposite!

That's why I think there needs to be some clarification. We know, as do CSF and most likely Wasps, what we get now at Higgs. CSF and Wasps will know what changes there will be following the redevelopment so surely thats the first step. Establish what is and isn't available. Once that is know then everyone knows where they stand.

Out of interest has the Trust also been talking with the Higgs Charity about their restriction that prevents the club agreeing a long term deal?

ashbyjan said:
Surely its not asking too much is it for CA to work with other parties to find a solution is it?

Indeed, equally surely its not asking too much for CSF & Wasps to let CA know exactly what facilities they can offer and on what terms?

Nick said:
CSF even had a quote lined up for the next day and the telegraph had the article on there - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-md-pulls-out-11635112

This is where I get frustrated with the CT. They can get a quote from CSF about CA's no show incredibly quickly. Why are they not asking them what facilities will be available to the club?

olderskyblue · Jul 20, 2016

Because this whole exercise is to show that the academy is not wanted, and to make sure we know who by?

armybike · Jul 20, 2016

chiefdave said:
Why are they not asking them what facilities will be available to the club?

If Anderson had bothered his arse to go to the meeting he might have found out for himself.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 20, 2016

olderskyblue said:
Because this whole exercise is to show that the academy is not wanted, and to make sure we know who by?

Yup, it's absolutely the right thing to try and facilitate the parties to talk to one another.

The only problem with this whole exercise is that the lack of signatures on a petition hardly suggests there's a will to keep an academy among the masses, that's worth listening to...

chiefdave · Jul 20, 2016

armybike said:
If Anderson had bothered his arse to go to the meeting he might have found out for himself.

Personally is my concern is for the future of the academy. To me it seems the best way to move that forward is to establish what facilities are available. If CSF & Wasps are able to supply those details to the Trust I don't really see why they can't supply them to the club as well.

Instead of trying to place blame lets look for the course of action that is most likely to move things forward and as far as I can tell that is establishing the facilities available. Lets get a press release from the Trust stating what they have been told is available and then confirmation from CSF & Wasps that it is correct. Call Anderson's bluff. If its correct that he wants to shut the academy lets not let it go easily, lets put as much pressure on him as possible.

Super Graham Withey · Jul 20, 2016

I think the Anderson no show is another sign that SISU may be ready to walk away sooner than we think.

armybike · Jul 20, 2016

chiefdave said:
Personally is my concern is for the future of the academy.

It's a shame Anderson and CCFC don't appear to hold the same position.

If you want to move things forward you don't wait for everyone else to come to you with the information - you get hands on, you attend meetings, you engage with the fans, you rally support.

What have CCFC actually done productivity to try and ensure the Academy is retained? What effort have they put in?

The expectation that all other parties should do the leg work is utterly ludicrous.

Anderson should have grabbed the opportunity for a face-to-face meeting with both hands and actually started the ball rolling but when presented with this opportunity has turned his back on it.

sbadey · Jul 20, 2016

Captain Dart said:
I think the trust are wasting their time, the club isn't going to continue with a Cat 2 Academy, possibly not even a Cat 3.

Difficulties come from Wasps & CSF/Higgs but the decision comes from SISU no one else.

If this accomadation from Wasps/CSF is true, then surely its an olive branch from Wasps and an indication that they want the club and acadamy around for the medium/long term future. That being said should we then not worry too much that the Arena talks have been put on hold? As it wouldn't make sense to offer us an olive branch of trying to help us keep our acadamy if they were plotting the genacide of our glorious CCFC.

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Orca · Jul 21, 2016

chiefdave said:
Personally is my concern is for the future of the academy. To me it seems the best way to move that forward is to establish what facilities are available. If CSF & Wasps are able to supply those details to the Trust I don't really see why they can't supply them to the club as well.

Dave, they've already provided this. Not directly to the club, but it is public domain on the planning portal. 3 hours per day, 5 days a week, starting at 5pm or 6pm from Wasps re: the indoor facility. A grass pitch that matches the standard of the existing pitch, on the same site; funded by Wasps, rentable from CSF.

My concern is only for the future of the academy also. The people who need it, need to state their requirements. Their prolonged silence says to me that they're looking for a way out - I'm afraid they're not going to find it by staying schtum.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jul 21, 2016

One minute Mr Anderson is going to this meeting then just before he's not first question why?e
Second question a few weeks ago it was vital to us that we kept the academy according to Mr Anderson and now silence why?
Basically Mr Anderson what or who has changed your mind because it's
Blindingly obvious that something or someone has.
If it's lack of cash then man up and say so at least some including me would have a bit of respect for you.
I and others treated you with respect and gave you the benefit of the doubt when you first arrived but I feel have been rewarded with contempt by yourself. Mind you should have known better.

Brylowes · Jul 21, 2016

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
One minute Mr Anderson is going to this meeting then just before he's not first question why?e
Second question a few weeks ago it was vital to us that we kept the academy according to Mr Anderson and now silence why?
Basically Mr Anderson what or who has changed your mind because it's
Blindingly obvious that something or someone has.
If it's lack of cash then man up and say so at least some including me would have a bit of respect for you.
I and others treated you with respect and gave you the benefit of the doubt when you first arrived but I feel have been rewarded with contempt by yourself. Mind you should have known better.

Said it the other day on another thread, he's just the latest in a long line of fall guys, he has
no real power it's just all about damage limitation. When his integrity is completely shot in
the eyes of the fans, he will be moved on as quickly as he was moved in, and then we will
start again with his successor. But without an academy.

Captain Dart · Jul 21, 2016

Super Graham Withey said:
I think the Anderson no show is another sign that SISU may be ready to walk away sooner than we think.

Court cases have more than 1 year to run, they're just making sure they don't lose more money running the club.
No intention to plan a rosy future, just simply batten down the hatches & ride out the storm.

Have I missed an academy update? (13 Viewers)

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