Have we got the worst owners in this league? (1 Viewer)

oldskyblue58 · Aug 29, 2022

[QUOTE="Alkhen, post: 2586654, member: 4364". Despite what people say they have backed Robins after every major sale they have made.

[/QUOTE]

How in what way ? Or do you mean they haven't taken money out of the pot for themselves ?

Either way show us how? because the financials to 31/05/21 do not show that they have.

Travs · Aug 29, 2022

If people had been offered to keep all of our "big three" and sell Hyam over the transfer window, 95% of City fans would have snapped your hand off.

A shit start to the season doesn't alter that fact.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 29, 2022

Sisu put their investors first. Always have done. Nothing has changed. They didn't get some kind of epiphany and change their culture, it is still and always has been the hard nosed ruthless financiers of a hedge fund.

They have done some good things like get the finances more under control, brought MR in, they have done some clever things like the mechanics of trying to bust ACL - very nearly worked, they have never done more than just keep things going - primarily because the alternative is for the clients to lose 40m+. The way they attempted to obtain the stadium was ultimately a disaster for the club. They have loaded the club with secured high interest debt that long term could threatened the clubs future.Their planning has always been short to mid medium term to benefit the investors and that has exposed the club to having no roots save in the hearts of its supporters.

Are they good or bad owners who knows, but you can not assess them until you take in that it is investors first then themselves then the club somewhere down the list. It always has been always will be. History says they will always be judged by the angst that they primarily put the club and supporters through. Seppala spelt it out a decade ago her investors always come first - why would anyone think that would have changed considering that's what generates her personal wealth?

However it is no damn good supporters now wringing their hands that sisu have all of a sudden become bad owners again after selling a player and only picking up 1 point. Sisu never changed, the evidence was always there to see, in the announcements from boddy fisher etc even Seppala, the financial statements, the dealings with key stakeholders etc etc etc

It is a big chunk of the fan base that changed, got sucked in by on field success and equated that to a changed or new Sisu. Can't criticise that, most fans just want a team that is winning, they don't understand or care much about finances - until their passion, their team is threatened. Fans should never be blinded by current success, the evidence of what is going on, or what sisu do has always been there..... you only have to join up a few dots, you don't need to be a finance expert to see it but take in what you see and question things don't just meekly acquiesce to and accept the PR, because CCFC win a few games

Now we look to be in for a struggle, start winning and things will look better..... sisu will not have changed.

Not the best owners a club has ever had no but as I once said in 2009 careful what you wish for - there are still some awful potential owners circling who could make things worse not better.

Owners please themselves, for most it's an ego trip, for ours it is not. My advice is enjoy the football

mark82 · Aug 29, 2022

Not the worst, but doesn't make them good.

Paxman II · Aug 29, 2022

Not the most terrible owners but not exactly great either. As ownership of football clubs go, they are languishing somewhere in the lower half of the table. In recent times they shored up their approach knowing backing the team may get us to a better place. It has. They have not taken very much at all from the club during these improved times in order to help - as much as they can convince themselves to. Those twist and turns have helped. We got Hamer, O'Hare and Gyokeres and we have improved a lot and look rightly to be a championship club. So while we wait for the knight in shining armour, they have turned it around a bit, and as OSB58 says, be careful what you wish for.

The gloom and doom is always an issue for me from so many on here. You talk your club down so much I wonder what makes you a fan?
A glance at the woes of other clubs and you will see we are not so worse off as you are making out. It's not ideal but i see the light at the tunnels end. Losing one average defender should not bring about all this outcry or should it affect the team very much, if at all. Had it been Godden/Gyokeres then I'd be more concerned. As a team Robins is rightfully concerned by having to play catch up in terms of form and may be a few games away from finding our feet. But relegation certs? Don't be so silly.

Grendel · Aug 29, 2022

oldskyblue58 said:
Sisu put their investors first. Always have done. Nothing has changed. They didn't get some kind of epiphany and change their culture, it is still and always has been the hard nosed ruthless financiers of a hedge fund.

They have done some good things like get the finances more under control, brought MR in, they have done some clever things like the mechanics of trying to bust ACL - very nearly worked, they have never done more than just keep things going - primarily because the alternative is for the clients to lose 40m+. The way they attempted to obtain the stadium was ultimately a disaster for the club. They have loaded the club with secured high interest debt that long term could threatened the clubs future.Their planning has always been short to mid medium term to benefit the investors and that has exposed the club to having no roots save in the hearts of its supporters.

Are they good or bad owners who knows, but you can not assess them until you take in that it is investors first then themselves then the club somewhere down the list. It always has been always will be. History says they will always be judged by the angst that they primarily put the club and supporters through. Seppala spelt it out a decade ago her investors always come first - why would anyone think that would have changed considering that's what generates her personal wealth?

However it is no damn good supporters now wringing their that sisu have all of a sudden become bad owners again after selling a player and only picking up 1 point. Sisu never changed, the evidence was always there to see, in the announcements from boddy fisher etc even Seppala, the financial statements, the dealings with key stakeholders etc etc etc

It is a big chunk of the fan base that changed, got sucked in by on field success and equated that to a changed or new Sisu. Can't criticise that, most fans just want a team that is winning, they don't understand or care much about finances - until their passion, their team is threatened. Fans should never be blinded by current success, the evidence of what is going on, or what sisu do has always been there..... you only have to join up a few dots, you don't need to be a finance expert to see it but take in what you see and question things don't just meekly acquiesce to and accept the PR, because CCFC win a few games

Now we look to be in for a struggle, start winning and things will look better..... sisu will not have changed.

Not the best owners a club has ever had no but as I once said in 2009 careful what you wish for - there are still some awful potential owners circling who could make things worse not better.

Owners please themselves, for most it's an ego trip, for ours it is not. My advice is enjoy the football

The real problem is the insecurity over the lease. It’s very easy to see the club being back to where it was by 2030 with no home which by then 23 years of ownership would be totally unacceptable

Paxman II · Aug 29, 2022

Grendel said:
The real problem is the insecurity over the lease. It’s very easy to see the club being back to where it was by 2030 with no home which by then 23 years of ownership would be totally unacceptable

I can't quite understand why a propective owner is not looking at Coventry and seeing the red flags around WASPS current situation, CCFC situation, and a nice stadium to go with it, possibly all available on the cheap.

Grendel · Aug 29, 2022

Paxman II said:
I can't quite understand why a propective owner is not looking at Coventry and seeing the red flags around WASPS current situation, CCFC situation, and a nice stadium to go with it, possibly all available on the cheap.

Wasps I doubt will go anywhere they are the great escapologists and we are the Fawlty towers of hedge funds - an absolute joke

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 29, 2022

Whatever you think of SISU, the last few days hasn't helped.

Contacting a club we previously rejected a transfer bid from, to tell them we now wanted to sell, only to accept what sounds like a lower bid than the first time round, is a complete embarrassment.

pusbccfc · Aug 29, 2022

Regardless of the original question, as supporters we have been through far more difficulties than any club in this division.

SkyblueDad · Aug 29, 2022

Sisu are absolutely the worst owners we have had are people forgetting them taking us out of city twice, the first time cost us our ground and the repercussions of that are still here today.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 29, 2022

marcusp said:
This seasons transfer window has to be one of the worst for us in several years. Sisu havnt backed MR or put their hands in their pockets at all despite the great results last season. For me it shows we have a bunch of tight fisted businessman in charge who dont want the club to go any further as they are frightened it will cost them money. They are quite happy for a mid to lower league finish or even league one which wont cost them anything

I disagree with the term businessman (and not just for the woke gender reasons)

Businespeople would understand that what they're doing will ultimately lose them more in value than the transfer funds. If there was a shortfall it would have been far more sensible for them/her to have covered it herself rather than massively devaluing the value of the asset for no benefit.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 29, 2022

Fergusons_Beard said:
That’s how fickle we are.

SISU have and continue to be shit owners.

They haven’t suddenly changed their transfer policy overnight.

As learned posters have said a multitude of times (OSB, Grendel etc) SISU continue to take money OUT of the club every single season.

The teams on-field successes have merely pulled the wool over our eyes.

All this negativity does though is upset the manager and our players.

The atmosphere at the CBS has been fantastic recently but I fear what will happen if we go a goal down on Weds.

Last year we went a goal down and we knew we could get back into it.

This team still has the same resilience-2 bad results doesn’t change that.

The team need our support at its most vulnerable .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The owners load more debt onto the club every year, but don't necessarily take money out.

It's still a shit way to run things, as clearly what they want is a financial return. But then anyone with half a brain would tell you if that's what you want don't invest in a football club!

If she does want a return, the only possible chance she's got is PL promotion. Yet she is doing everything to minimise the already small opportunity for that to happen. It's utterly bizarre and actually quite a stupid game plan.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 29, 2022

Alkhen said:
Nope, seen enough players come and go to not lose my shit over the sale of a steady championship level defender. There are people acting like we've sold Maldini for a quid.

SISU are far from perfect and their initial stadium wranglings set is back years. If you can isolate that shit show (that is now pretty much out of our control) and actually judge them on their actions post League 2 relegation the club has performed better year on year. Despite what people say they have backed Robins after every major sale they have made.

Far too many entitled brats on here who expect things to happen like they do in videogames. We have budgets and expenses that need to be managed. We have tried spending out of our budget before and it landed us in shit. We have to factor in the cost of COVID and the totally unprecedented situation Wasps caused with the pitch. Times are hard.

I'm a big brave boy and won't cry if a few players are sold Give me a few years consolidation over risking it all any day.

All the talk of budgets and expenses is fine, but it always comes down to a particular point.

Why, when we have attendances that are above average do we have one of the lowest budgets and salaries?

I'm not sitting here expecting us to have millions to spend on players and be able to pay them all 20-25k a week. But what I do expect is for us to spend competitively in relation to our income.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 29, 2022

oldskyblue58 said:
Sisu put their investors first. Always have done. Nothing has changed. They didn't get some kind of epiphany and change their culture, it is still and always has been the hard nosed ruthless financiers of a hedge fund.

They have done some good things like get the finances more under control, brought MR in, they have done some clever things like the mechanics of trying to bust ACL - very nearly worked, they have never done more than just keep things going - primarily because the alternative is for the clients to lose 40m+. The way they attempted to obtain the stadium was ultimately a disaster for the club. They have loaded the club with secured high interest debt that long term could threatened the clubs future.Their planning has always been short to mid medium term to benefit the investors and that has exposed the club to having no roots save in the hearts of its supporters.

Are they good or bad owners who knows, but you can not assess them until you take in that it is investors first then themselves then the club somewhere down the list. It always has been always will be. History says they will always be judged by the angst that they primarily put the club and supporters through. Seppala spelt it out a decade ago her investors always come first - why would anyone think that would have changed considering that's what generates her personal wealth?

However it is no damn good supporters now wringing their hands that sisu have all of a sudden become bad owners again after selling a player and only picking up 1 point. Sisu never changed, the evidence was always there to see, in the announcements from boddy fisher etc even Seppala, the financial statements, the dealings with key stakeholders etc etc etc

It is a big chunk of the fan base that changed, got sucked in by on field success and equated that to a changed or new Sisu. Can't criticise that, most fans just want a team that is winning, they don't understand or care much about finances - until their passion, their team is threatened. Fans should never be blinded by current success, the evidence of what is going on, or what sisu do has always been there..... you only have to join up a few dots, you don't need to be a finance expert to see it but take in what you see and question things don't just meekly acquiesce to and accept the PR, because CCFC win a few games

Now we look to be in for a struggle, start winning and things will look better..... sisu will not have changed.

Not the best owners a club has ever had no but as I once said in 2009 careful what you wish for - there are still some awful potential owners circling who could make things worse not better.

Owners please themselves, for most it's an ego trip, for ours it is not. My advice is enjoy the football

I agree with that entirely, but I felt the one change (which may have come from executives rather than the owner) had been that we'd returned to the policy of bringing in decent young players to develop, sell and then buy more decent prospects to build. Over the past year or so that model seems to have changed to bringing in average older players on quite significant wages (for us) and we're going to suffer from it.

Going forward I can see them doing like they did with Fox and Dann, cashing in on the likes of Gyo, O'Hare, Hamer and Sheaf rather than trying to build. It was a fucking disaster last time and it will be this if it comes to pass. I know business/finance people tend to be short termist but the inability to not see they're about to make exactly the same mistake they made over a decade ago is inexplicable.

Alkhen · Aug 29, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
All the talk of budgets and expenses is fine, but it always comes down to a particular point.

Why, when we have attendances that are above average do we have one of the lowest budgets and salaries?

I'm not sitting here expecting us to have millions to spend on players and be able to pay them all 20-25k a week. But what I do expect is for us to spend competitively in relation to our income.

Answered your own question haven't you. We not had any income from home matches yet. The pitch situation has definitely thrown any plans out the window. Personally I cut them some slack

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 29, 2022

Alkhen said:
Answered your own question haven't you. We not had any income from home matches yet. The pitch situation has definitely thrown any plans out the window. Personally I cut them some slack

If we can't go a few weeks without having to sell a player then somethings terribly wrong. We know those games will be played and the income received in the next couple of months so a short term bridging loan to cover that makes far more sense than selling your most consistent CB for (supposedly) less than was offered a month ago. You then run the risk of losing even more income over the season if the team is weaker as less fans attend.

Alkhen · Aug 29, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
If we can't go a few weeks without having to sell a player then somethings terribly wrong. We know those games will be played and the income received in the next couple of months so a short term bridging loan to cover that makes far more sense than selling your most consistent CB for (supposedly) less than was offered a month ago. You then run the risk of losing even more income over the season if the team is weaker as less fans attend.

Come on Hyam was fine but people a mourning his loss like we we have sold a world beater for pennies. We don't know the fee, the figures quoted came from the Blackburn side so will be in their favour.

None of us know the inner workings the club it's all speculation, even the 'ITK's can't know it all. My best guess is that SiSU want to sell the club and Can't/won't invest more than what is needed to keep the club ticking over, whilst they do so..No shame it that. Things have been made worse by COVID debt and no player sales for a while then they get lumbered with a month with no income due to their tin-pot landlords

They have had a bad run of luck. Something must give. But no doubt the management team have contingency plans and will get replacements in

Nick · Aug 29, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
If we can't go a few weeks without having to sell a player then somethings terribly wrong. We know those games will be played and the income received in the next couple of months so a short term bridging loan to cover that makes far more sense than selling your most consistent CB for (supposedly) less than was offered a month ago. You then run the risk of losing even more income over the season if the team is weaker as less fans attend.

What about sorting the pitch?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 30, 2022

Nick said:
What about sorting the pitch?

As I said, makes far more sense to bridge that with a loan from the owners than weakening the team in the medium to longer term.

Legally as tenants there's no way we can be expected to pay for it long term as it was deemed unsafe and therefore had to have work done on it for us to get what we pay for. Not only could we claim for compensation as we're not getting what we pay for there could eventually be recompense for lost earnings, extra costs incurred rearranging matches and the inconvenience. Wasps should have insurance for this, or the cost to get the surface back to standard should have been included in the CWG contract. One way or another, it is Wasps responsibility and the cost must ultimately be theirs.

I'd have rather chosen to withhold rent for the month in lieu of paying for the works. We apparently don't get our ST money until the game is played (fucking ridiculous setup if true) so why should they get the rent? If we have a set rent per annum then divide it by 23 and pay it when the matches are played. What are Wasps going to do? Kick us out? They can't afford for us to leave and they can hardly get uppity about the situation given that we literally couldn't play there.

Selling a player, especially quite an important one, to fund that is a complete failure to see the bigger picture. To do it at supposedly a reduced fee to increase the up front payment and thus let the world know we're desperate is, at best, amateurish but far more mind-boggling stupid.

Grendel · Aug 30, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
As I said, makes far more sense to bridge that with a loan from the owners than weakening the team in the medium to longer term.

Legally as tenants there's no way we can be expected to pay for it long term as it was deemed unsafe and therefore had to have work done on it for us to get what we pay for. Not only could we claim for compensation as we're not getting what we pay for there could eventually be recompense for lost earnings, extra costs incurred rearranging matches and the inconvenience. Wasps should have insurance for this, or the cost to get the surface back to standard should have been included in the CWG contract. One way or another, it is Wasps responsibility and the cost must ultimately be theirs.

I'd have rather chosen to withhold rent for the month in lieu of paying for the works. We apparently don't get our ST money until the game is played (fucking ridiculous setup if true) so why should they get the rent? If we have a set rent per annum then divide it by 23 and pay it when the matches are played. What are Wasps going to do? Kick us out? They can't afford for us to leave and they can hardly get uppity about the situation given that we literally couldn't play there.

Selling a player, especially quite an important one, to fund that is a complete failure to see the bigger picture. To do it at supposedly a reduced fee to increase the up front payment and thus let the world know we're desperate is, at best, amateurish but far more mind-boggling stupid.

We have paid the rent - its quarterly advanced paymenst

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 30, 2022

Grendel said:
We have paid the rent - its quarterly advanced paymenst

Then we take it off the next payment.

I still maintain that the best option by a sensible owner would have been to provide a loan to cover the unexpected costs/lost revenue.

letsallsingtogether · Aug 30, 2022

Alkhen said:
Nope, seen enough players come and go to not lose my shit over the sale of a steady championship level defender. There are people acting like we've sold Maldini for a quid.

SISU are far from perfect and their initial stadium wranglings set is back years. If you can isolate that shit show (that is now pretty much out of our control) and actually judge them on their actions post League 2 relegation the club has performed better year on year. Despite what people say they have backed Robins after every major sale they have made.

Far too many entitled brats on here who expect things to happen like they do in videogames. We have budgets and expenses that need to be managed. We have tried spending out of our budget before and it landed us in shit. We have to factor in the cost of COVID and the totally unprecedented situation Wasps caused with the pitch. Times are hard.

I'm a big brave boy and won't cry if a few players are sold Give me a few years consolidation over risking it all any day.

So we have to factor in Covid people say that like we were the only ones affected.
Times are hard for everyone some manage it better then others, going backwards isnt the way.

As for judging them on their actions that is exactly what I do, and that puts them in the prem when it comes to shit owners IMHO.

letsallsingtogether · Aug 30, 2022

Nick said:
What about sorting the pitch?

Did it cost 1.5M
Yes I realise we are a selling club blar blar blar.
But just as it starts to look good fans behind the team owner getting no flack we get a kick in the nuts.
No Investment no enhancement of the team.
Suprised we havent had the line, Walker is like a new signing!
Dont expect us to be in the top 6 but a season like last year or slightly better will be great.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2022

Travs said:
If people had been offered to keep all of our "big three" and sell Hyam over the transfer window, 95% of City fans would have snapped your hand off.

A shit start to the season doesn't alter that fact.

People saying this seem to think the plan was to sell O’Hare for £10m and Robins not see any of it. It’s not the selling players that’s the problem, it’s the complete lack of investment and stories that we are so hard up Boddy is ringing round like a dealer with some shit weed to move.

Travs · Aug 30, 2022

So we didn't invest in new players, but kept our best three.

It isn't the greatest transfer window of all-time, but its not an unmitigated disaster.

Levship20 · Aug 30, 2022

Travs said:
So we didn't invest in new players, but kept our best three.

It isn't the greatest transfer window of all-time, but its not an unmitigated disaster.

yet!!!!!

lord_garrincha · Aug 30, 2022

Have we got the worst owners in this league?
- No.

But we have got the worst Owners in this league!

wince · Aug 30, 2022

Yes ,

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Aug 31, 2022

Fergusons_Beard said:
Honestly think most fans support our club no matter what goes on.

Yes we have quite a fickle bunch and considering how big Coventry is-a fair few glory hunters too.

But then I went to Northampton, Burton and Birmingham because I support whatever team is put on the pitch.

Shame majority didn’t see some of the football we played in our lower league wilderness years.

I understand the frustration of nearly being a bloody brilliant football club that is a few stellar signings from promotion.

What I don’t get is all the negativity around transfers-it’s been this way since SISU took over and really should be no surprise.

Robins knows it too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I went only once to watch city when we were at Northampton:
Cov 1 Tranmere 5.

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