Higgs Share Update (3 Viewers)

limoncello · Oct 24, 2014

Some people are tying themselves in knots trying to justify this ridiculous situation.

Look, it's easy - Sisu have no interest in us the fans. The council couldn't care less. Higgs look after themselves. Wasps want to make money.

None of them give a toss about us. So why bother defending them?

Jack Griffin · Oct 24, 2014

duffer said:
That seems to directly contradict the idea that the council and Wasps are trying to sell, that they're moving their academy and training facilities up here. Even if they had the cash, it doesn't look likely that the RFU would let it happen.

They are not moving their academy. That has to stay where it is, London ish...

duffer · Oct 24, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
They are not moving their academy. That has to stay where it is, London ish...

So as above, you get a situation where their entire development set up, and where they are drawing their youth players from, is a hundred miles from their home ground and first team squad.

Seems a bit strange to me - and hardly draws more local kids into the sport other than as spectators, perhaps...

albatross · Oct 24, 2014

WASPS are a heavyweight in Rugby Union so being in the area will change any claims that Worcester , Leicester and Northampton have over time.

How can CRFC ever hope to compete if they are starved of local talent? They are not in any position to alter that, WASPS can

Jack Griffin · Oct 24, 2014

duffer said:
So as above, you get a situation where their entire development set up, and where they are drawing their youth players from, is a hundred miles from their home ground and first team squad.

Seems a bit strange to me - and hardly draws more local kids into the sport other than as spectators, perhaps...

Yeah, but it is because the areas were decided when they were in Wycombe.. somehow I think it will change one day... but not immediately & not before a lot of arguments between the top Rugby clubs.

TheOldFive · Oct 24, 2014

It's no use waiting for the money men to save us deciding who to sell us out to - here's the simple answer to everything. SISU OUT.

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=50447

oldfiver · Oct 24, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
I think the main driving force is that Wasps wanted a place for the team.

The planning consents on the Ricoh site for development have been there for some years and formed part of the demise for the lease. Any development would help improve income streams at the Ricoh

If there is an agreement to build a training ground then it is not a deal to cash in on property profits

What SISU wanted to do was to get their hands on the stadium and associated land cheaply and flip it for big profit and walk away. CCFC were the tool to do that. The Wasps deal doesn't from what we know look to be the same at all.

You haven't seen the deal yet

WASPs supporters are expecting to be back in London within 5 years.

It is a property deal with WASPs a sweetener

chiefdave · Oct 24, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Yeah, but it is because the areas were decided when they were in Wycombe.. somehow I think it will change one day... but not immediately & not before a lot of arguments between the top Rugby clubs.

It will probably only be a couple of years and their equivalent of the FA / FL will decide how rugby academies are setup which will conveniently let Wasps move theirs up here. There's no way it's going to stay in London long term. They've just done that now to stop Leicester trying to block the move.

oldfiver said:
WASPs supporters are expecting to be back in London within 5 years.

Where's this come from? First time I've heard that.

skybluetony176 · Oct 24, 2014

Nick said:
Wouldn't that just be the same as SISU owning the Ricoh, which many don't want to happen?

Have or are SISU buying into the Ricoh then?

skybluetony176 · Oct 24, 2014

torchomatic said:
I'm not. But nor am I attracted to swapping like for like.

It wouldn't stricktley be like for like though would it. The current bunch don't own the Ricoh. The next lot would, if the scenario was to happen.

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2014

albatross said:
WASPS are a heavyweight in Rugby Union so being in the area will change any claims that Worcester , Leicester and Northampton have over time.

How can CRFC ever hope to compete if they are starved of local talent? They are not in any position to alter that, WASPS can

And that's a good thing how?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

torchomatic · Oct 24, 2014

True, but my point is a hedge fund of some sort with faceless investors would still get their hands on the Ricoh. Who knows if they'd be any better? They might be, they might not. Frying pan and fire and all that. Anyway, we shall see, eh?

skybluetony176 said:
It wouldn't stricktley be like for like though would it. The current bunch don't own the Ricoh. The next lot would if the scenario was to happen.

Jack Griffin · Oct 24, 2014

chiefdave said:
Where's this come from? First time I've heard that.

Les Reid? LOL

skybluetony176 · Oct 24, 2014

torchomatic said:
True, but my point is a hedge fund of some sort with faceless investors would still get their hands on the Ricoh. Who knows if they'd be any better? They might be, they might not. Frying pan and fire and all that. Anyway, we shall see, eh?

I agree. But it's hard to see how much more legs the club has with SISU (as touched upon by OSB) at least we'd have a fresh start and fresh hope all be it with a side of caution rather than the side of relief I think we collectively felt when SISU rocked up in town.

It's all hypothetical anyway.

torchomatic · Oct 24, 2014

True. It'll happen one day, so let's hope whoever the next lot are, they have more interest in CCFC.

skybluetony176 said:
I agree. But it's hard to see how much more legs the club has with SISU (as touched upon by OSB) at least we'd have a fresh start and fresh hope all be it with a side of caution rather than the side of relief I think we collectively felt when SISU rocked up in town.

It's all hypothetical anyway.

duffer · Oct 24, 2014

albatross said:
WASPS are a heavyweight in Rugby Union so being in the area will change any claims that Worcester , Leicester and Northampton have over time.

How can CRFC ever hope to compete if they are starved of local talent? They are not in any position to alter that, WASPS can

So you think the RFU will roll over then, and let them build their academy here. Wasps are relatively small fry compared to Leicester and Northampton, do you not think they might not have the ear of the RFU too?

And in what way are CRFC starved of local talent? If you're saying that they're being pinched by Worcester, Leicester and Northampton now, how will that improve when Wasps roll into town too?

Do you seriously thinks Wasps will let CRFC get to a level where they are competing for the same players and fanbase? I see absolutely no evidence of that happening, sorry.

The Reverend Skyblue · Oct 24, 2014

We all know deep down the reason was a vendetta by the council for SISU not dropping the bloody JR., the moment they decided to carry on with it the door closed for good on SISU getting anything from the Ricoh.

We as fans now have nothing to cling on to regarding any stadium full or part ownership, and our only hope now is SISU get the 50% and then sell up and sail into the sunset for good

albatross · Oct 24, 2014

Duffer I agree with you but WASPS have a pedigree as god as any They won the Heineken Cup in 2003–04 and 2006–07, the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 1999, 2000 and 2006 and the Aviva Premiership in 1990, 1997, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2008.

They will eventually become established and push out the others not immediately but in time.

Will it help CRFC... yes and no WASPS will cream of the quality like the others no doubt but they may stay in the area and they have already said they will let them have young players the same way CCFC take loanees.

I would prefer that CCFC and CRFC could do it under their own steam but thirty years of mis management have effectively put paid to that.

Rusty Trombone · Oct 24, 2014

duffer said:
So they'd end up with a training facility up here, but their academy, which is in essence their whole development setup, that will remain in London?

How will that work then?

And how will that improve take up of sport in the city (something that councillors made a huge deal of in the debate), given that our kids aren't really based in London?

This is what I mean about people not looking critically at all of the stuff that's come out of Wasps and the Council.

That would be the situation at least until the RFU redefine the academy boundaries, that is due in 18 months, but could happen before.

The argument would be that with a training facility here other people or schools could go along, I think they mentioned the plan is to get players visiting schools, that sort of thing. Not really my argument though, I was just pointing out that the statements about a training facility and an academy area are not the same thing.

That's what I mean about people not reading things properly and confusing the issue, and then criticising something that isn't there.

duffer · Oct 24, 2014

albatross said:
Duffer I agree with you but WASPS have a pedigree as god as any They won the Heineken Cup in 2003–04 and 2006–07, the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 1999, 2000 and 2006 and the Aviva Premiership in 1990, 1997, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2008.

They will eventually become established and push out the others not immediately but in time.

Will it help CRFC... yes and no WASPS will cream of the quality like the others no doubt but they may stay in the area and they have already said they will let them have young players the same way CCFC take loanees.

I would prefer that CCFC and CRFC could do it under their own steam but thirty years of mis management have effectively put paid to that.

Hi albatross, I wouldn't dispute the pedigree at all - but I'm not convinced they've necessarily got enough influence with the RFU to get their way against both Saints and Tigers.

And again, I don't see that they'll ever let CRFC get to a point were they will challenge them at the top level, so Wasps coming in actually limits the ambition of the Coventry team now - imho.

As for mismanagement, no argument here about CCFC, but CRFC look like they're on their way back now. Clearly you follow the game a bit, do you ever go up to the Butts, just out of interest?

Rusty Trombone · Oct 24, 2014

torchomatic said:
So kids in Cov won't get the chance and kids in London will, if they are happy to come up to Coventry?

It's as if you try and get mixed up on purpose. Very odd.

duffer · Oct 24, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
That would be the situation at least until the RFU redefine the academy boundaries, that is due in 18 months, but could happen before.

The argument would be that with a training facility here other people or schools could go along, I think they mentioned the plan is to get players visiting schools, that sort of thing. Not really my argument though, I was just pointing out that the statements about a training facility and an academy area are not the same thing.

That's what I mean about people not reading things properly and confusing the issue, and then criticising something that isn't there.

I don't think it's unfair to ask for clarity.

The council and others have made a big thing about Wasps building a training facility and encouraging kids into the sport - indeed it's one the justifications they've used for the deal.

Where's the harm in pointing out that at best, it looks a bit suspicious, especially given their ability to move their academy (key to developing kids) is at the whim of the RFU who are currently clearly against it (see earlier quote).

Are you confident that Wasps will be allowed to move their academy up here? It's just that it all sounds very thin to me. Obviously if you're happy with Wasps moving up (not saying you are btw) I can understand why you wouldn't want people to look into the detail to closely.

Clearly that's the council's position on this, flog it and hope for the best. That lovely Mr Richardson said everything would be OK as long as he could have ACL, why worry.

Rusty Trombone · Oct 24, 2014

duffer said:
I don't think it's unfair to ask for clarity.

The council and others have made a big thing about Wasps building a training facility and encouraging kids into the sport - indeed it's one the justifications they've used for the deal.

Where's the harm in pointing out that at best, it looks a bit suspicious, especially given their ability to move their academy (key to developing kids) is at the whim of the RFU who are currently clearly against it (see earlier quote).

Are you confident that Wasps will be allowed to move their academy up here? It's just that it all sounds very thin to me. Obviously if you're happy with Wasps moving up (not saying you are btw) I can understand why you wouldn't want people to look into the detail to closely.

Clearly that's the council's position on this, flog it and hope for the best. That lovely Mr Richardson said everything would be OK as long as he could have ACL, why worry.

I'm not confident either way about their academy, although it does appear the RFU aren't bothered about teams moving so I doubt they are fussed if their academy moves (other clubs might be). I'd rather wasps not get hold of ACL, but I think arguments stand up against wasps without the need the mix up issues and quotes about different things.

I would be very happy if all the detail were available and any lies and contradictions highlighted, but I don't believe this is one.

I agree the deal does appear that it's based on keeping fingers crossed and hoping for the best.

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2014

C'mon you harlequin's

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Calista · Oct 25, 2014

Godiva said:
BTW, would it be possible to revive ccfc ltd (out of liquidation and back into trading) and what would it take?

I seem to recall that CCFC Ltd. was a "non-trading property subsidiary"?

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