Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (27 Viewers)

Astute · Apr 1, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Despite the cases being completely different?

Completely different in the way one is against Higgs and the other is against CCC. And one was for an agreed payment.

Both are with the aim of getting the Ricoh. Both are about the timings of events. Both are about the wording of events. Both are/were with the aim of getting damages. Both will have a legal team much bigger than needed by SISU.

I always thought that SISU were on a loser with todays case. Higgs seemed to have had the evidence needed. That is why they brought the case. This is where there is a difference. It took 2 attempts to get the JR. But this is a case that SISU have started. But personally I don't think it is looking too good for them. Could be wrong though.

The Gentleman · Apr 1, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Too right, you mentalist!

However the point being that the result to this is valid whoever wins.

Or it's invalid whoever wins.

It can't be valid for one result, and not for another. That's just ridiculous.

Jesus! All this clap trap about most on here think that way is the ridiculous part. I would say that for the most part, (most) people on this forum will be happy to see Sisu lose. Some because they hate them, some because of the way they are treating our club and some because they believe that the amount they counter claimed for against a (Coventry based) charity and there perceived bully boy tactics. Some on here claim that it won't bother them because it is just a warm up for the JR but I disagree because to me, Sisu do not look like an outfit who would want to lose, whether it was in court, in business or just betting on two rain drops running down a wall.

Nick · Apr 1, 2014

stupot07 said:
What happens if Higgs lose?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Do they just pay their own fees and be on their way? Both sides?

The Gentleman · Apr 1, 2014

Astute said:
There is a bit of a difference though.

We have a local charity. They have not knowingly lied to us. They do good within our City. Then you have SISU.

Dirty psycological tricks? By the sounds of it they had the proof that they said they had. SISU tell us that they batter people in court. Were 8 QC's needed? If it was just a sideshow why did they have so many?

Yet we have some trying to make out that we don't know what went on. The judge seems to have made his mind up very quick and had the SISU QC admit that it was a tit for tat claim. Plain and simple bullying.

We all want to know the truth. But the more that happens the more we can guess who isn't telling the truth.

DaleM · Apr 1, 2014

spider_ricoh said:
I hope to God this is the beginning of the end...if the court cases carry on in this way, SISU will get their JR thrown out. OK they may appeal and or find some other legal way to harass CCC /ACL (as allegedly promised by Joy) but they will probably have to sell the club on, or get their tail between their legs and do a deal on the Ricoh on comprise terms.

Lets all take a step back and be careful what we wish for . If they lose the JR (after appeal probably) I can see the end of CCFC in a liquidation with a firesale of everything worth anything.
I detest SISU as much anyone but am coming round to the thinking that they will continue to fuck CCFC over until they run out of options then put all toxic debts into the football club and kill it with one fell swoop.

wingy · Apr 1, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney_General_of_Belize_v_Belize_Telecom_Ltd

I've got a book with quite a lot of cases in - this one isn't though.

Would like to know the significance of citing this precedent In terms of contract law and Good will etc.
Seems more complex than that and the Structure of that enitiy resembles the make up of ACL's boardroom .

There appears to be symmetry to where Higgs gained the Clubs stake In ACL.

Am wondering If this marries to the case going forward Into the JR,as part of the wrongdoing to the Club on a historical basis ?

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 1, 2014

DaleM said:
Lets all take a step back and be careful what we wish for . If they lose the JR (after appeal probably) I can see the end of CCFC in a liquidation with a firesale of everything worth anything.
I detest SISU as much anyone but am coming round to the thinking that they will continue to fuck CCFC over until they run out of options then put all toxic debts into the football club and kill it with one fell swoop.

The moment they do that then a loss is crystallised to the tune of tens of millions of pounds. Rather than write it all off by liquidating I would expect the club to go to the highest bidder and whilst the loss would still be large it wouldn't be total.

Grendel · Apr 1, 2014

Does anyone genuinely care less about this case? Its all totally pointless and irrelevant.

DaleM · Apr 1, 2014

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The moment they do that then a loss is crystallised to the tune of tens of millions of pounds. Rather than write it all off by liquidating I would expect the club to go to the highest bidder and whilst the loss would still be large it wouldn't be total.

Highest bidder ? We ain't worth anything . What idiot would take the club on with all that debt that is loaded on us even if they got it for free .

Oh hang on a minute..............

skybluetony176 · Apr 1, 2014

Grendel said:
Does anyone genuinely care less about this case? Its all totally pointless and irrelevant.

Why did sisu attempt to fight it then?

Rob S · Apr 1, 2014

Not too much to add to what's been said apart from:
Loads of time spent on deciding if Sisu's counter claim was valid but no so down to the judges summary of that in the morning then on with the rest of Sisu's case including Peter K-H and Paul Harris on the witness stand followed by Laura Deering on Thu.

I get the feeling that Sisu legal team (a mix of Sisu legal and the QC's own people from Matrix Chambers, hence 8 people in total) were expecting to be knocked back on the counter claim.

The big deal is now really down to how the witnesses perform and the disclosed documents coming out.

If I can get digital copies of what is allowed out I'll try and put them in a public Dropbox folder and share the link here so everyone can dig in.

I'll be in court again tomorrow so more updates and sorry if I've missed any questions – posting via my phone so a bit hampered

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 1, 2014

DaleM said:
Highest bidder ? We ain't worth anything . What idiot would take the club on with all that debt that is loaded on us even if they got it for free .

Oh hang on a minute..............

That's the problem, we're only really attractive to those who like to play fast and loose with risk.

And in the context of their other businesses, not really worth moving us on. Probably worth more liquidating, flogging Ryton (to themselves, if they feel like it) and the players.

Frankly, any other business would have died long ago. Probably wasn't politically expedient for our Geoffrey to let it just wither away to nonexistence, however. Better to defer the inevitable...

But... we've been here before eh!

Grendel · Apr 1, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
Why did sisu attempt to fight it then?

Not to win £290,000 that's for sure. Why the past tense its still on isn't it?

martcov · Apr 1, 2014

Grendel said:
Does anyone genuinely care less about this case? Its all totally pointless and irrelevant.

I would agree. Totally pointless. SISU should have payed the money they allegedly owe and not have turned up with an army of lawyers. Waste of their time and money.

They own a league one football club and I would have hoped they spend more time and money on that than on trying to batter charities in court.

hill83 · Apr 1, 2014

FAO Sisu

[video=youtube;Mo0bYDUsTis]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo0bYDUsTis[/video]

tisza · Apr 1, 2014

This talk of liquidation seems a bit premature.
Fisher has said that the JR is about justice for the taxpayers of Coventry. SISU are going to build their own stadium and take the club forward.

Grendel · Apr 1, 2014

martcov said:
I would agree. Totally pointless. SISU should have payed the money they allegedly owe and not have turned up with an army of lawyers. Waste of their time and money.

They own a league one football club and I would have hoped they spend more time and money on that than on trying to batter charities in court.

Please lets not keep talking about the charity as if its pure focus is benevolence. Its not as if sisu are trying to randomly sue Redwings Horse Sanctuary (Oxhill branch now open for the summer). Higgs purchased a share of a football club and are I believe now trying to buy a pub. The irony is if sisu hadn't purchased the club when they did the charity would be far more vunerable. Dear old mr Coventry and the last regime wouldn't have been paying the bills. The ACL project was then wholly dependant on the club and the whole project could have folded quickly.

This is property investment and regenertion. The notion the charity is untouchable is pure guff.

martcov · Apr 1, 2014

Grendel said:
Please lets not keep talking about the charity as if its pure focus is benevolence. Its not as if sisu are trying to randomly sue Redwings Horse Sanctuary (Oxhill branch now open for the summer). Higgs purchased a share of a football club and are I believe now trying to buy a pub. The irony is if sisu hadn't purchased the club when they did the charity would be far more vunerable. Dear old mr Coventry and the last regime wouldn't have been paying the bills. The ACL project was then wholly dependant on the club and the whole project could have folded quickly.

This is property investment and regenertion. The notion the charity is untouchable is pure guff.

The arrival of SISU was seen as a chance of something good happening, but that has long gone. The charity is, IMO, taking some risks e.g. Here and with Brown's, but it has an interest in Coventry and helping Coventrians written into it. So I would still side with them when in doubt as to who's right. SISU's remit is to make money. I hope that at least something comes out of this case, e.g. information, documents, otherwise money has been wasted which could have been invested elsewhere.

GaryPendrysEyes · Apr 1, 2014

The Grendel obsession with ACL/Higgs is totally bizarre-- try focussing on the owners of CCFC for once, the ones that led us to a complete shambles.
Charities have a special status because they demonstrably deliver 'public good', in Higg's case largely to the Coventry area.

Interesting to see how tomorrow goes. Will it be cut short? Is this boiling down to a simple contract, that Sisu havent honoured???

Hobo · Apr 1, 2014

GaryPendrysEyes said:
The Grendel obsession with ACL/Higgs is totally bizarre-- try focussing on the owners of CCFC for once, the ones that led us to a complete shambles.
Charities have a special status because they demonstrably deliver 'public good', in Higg's case largely to the Coventry area.

Interesting to see how tomorrow goes. Will it be cut short? Is this boiling down to a simple contract, that Sisu havent honoured???

Don't forget Grendel's other fixations: CCC, Andy Thorne and Rush.

Some sort of personality disorder?

SimonGilbert · Apr 1, 2014

Full version of today's coverage is now up. Sorry I haven't been able to respond much. Been VERY busy with this!

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-sisu-unlikely-6904378

Another interesting story relating to some documents which have been disclosed will follow shortly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tisza · Apr 1, 2014

Grendel I thought Higgs investment in the football club was as a private individual and not through the charity.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 1, 2014

SimonGilbert said:
Another interesting story relating to some documents which have been disclosed will follow shortly.

If the story lives up to the teaser, I look forward to it

Noggin · Apr 1, 2014

SimonGilbert said:
Full version of today's coverage is now up. Sorry I haven't been able to respond much. Been VERY busy with this!

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-sisu-unlikely-6904378

Another interesting story relating to some documents which have been disclosed will follow shortly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for your hard days work keeping us updated Simon

SimonGilbert · Apr 1, 2014

As promised http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-sisu-threatened-6905304

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GaryPendrysEyes · Apr 1, 2014

SimonGilbert said:
As promised http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-sisu-threatened-6905304

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Simon good work today. Get yourself a glass of something cold!

GaryPendrysEyes · Apr 1, 2014

Nothing of note there, not looking good for Sisu's JR is it.
One day some people will focus on the big picture which is the extent of Sisu's failure as a business and to the club, its history and community.

wingy · Apr 1, 2014

SimonGilbert said:
As promised http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-sisu-threatened-6905304

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As said at the time ,the CCC took her comments to mean she would liquidate.

DaleM · Apr 1, 2014

SimonGilbert said:
As promised http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-sisu-threatened-6905304

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Oh dear . Attaching conditions to deals . I believe in SISU talk thats not allowed hence this seasons 10 point deduction .

blueflint · Apr 1, 2014

Hobo said:
Don't forget Grendel's other fixations: CCC, Andy Thorne and Rush.

Some sort of personality disorder?

miss spelling there i think should it be thrush as he's an irritating c***

bigfatronssba · Apr 1, 2014

SimonGilbert said:
As promised http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-sisu-threatened-6905304

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good report!

So her position two years ago was the Ricoh or we're walking away?

Yet now we're meant to believe that they will fund millions for a new stadium?

bigfatronssba · Apr 1, 2014

DaleM said:
Oh dear . Attaching conditions to deals . I believe in SISU talk thats not allowed hence this seasons 10 point deduction .

Yeah that's up there with the other sisu classic contradiction:

Its illegal for two or more parties (CCC, ACL & Higgs) to conspire in distressing the business interests of a third party (Sisu/CCFC/Otium)

Its legal for two or more parties (Sisu & CCC) to conspire in distressing the business interests of a third party (Yorkshire Bank & ACL)

wingy · Apr 1, 2014

I'd like someone to spell It out ,but the Article I read Les Reids ,Stated SISU were to pay off the loan For £7M. and take the Higgs share as part of a package .
To me this friction over the CCC valuation of the Higgs share suggests It was CCC's responsibility to settle with them ,you can see why this never went through If say Higgs were only going to get sub their 'initial investment. Ultimately for the price of Higgs direct to SISU there would be no mortgage on the Stadium with CCC out say another £3-4M and Higgs out by £2-£3M.

shmmeee · Apr 1, 2014

That reads very differently to the earlier tweets discussed in this thread.

More like "if we do this she might liquidate (as threatened) but maybe we can persuade her to sell instead"

Nothing about forcing her out, more a fear of the club disappearing.

Not looking good for Sisu is it?

Edit: oh, and how many times have I been told by people on here that Sisu would never liquidate? Well they sure seem keen to threaten it and people seem to take them seriously.

Grendel · Apr 1, 2014

GaryPendrysEyes said:
The Grendel obsession with ACL/Higgs is totally bizarre-- try focussing on the owners of CCFC for once, the ones that led us to a complete shambles.
Charities have a special status because they demonstrably deliver 'public good', in Higg's case largely to the Coventry area.

Interesting to see how tomorrow goes. Will it be cut short? Is this boiling down to a simple contract, that Sisu havent honoured???

My obsession is with CCFC a football club you've never ever watched.

Why we keep feeding this troll I don't know.

Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (27 Viewers)

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