High Court Match Thread (17 Viewers)

Gray · Mar 26, 2013

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 2m
Breaking (more).. #ACL asks judge for its costs to be "paid by any expenses in the administration" of #CCFC Ltd @covtelegraph

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Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 2m
BREAKING more: Judge Mrs justice Proudman indicates she will agree to dismiss #ACL application for admin order for #CCFC Ltd @covtelegraph

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Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 2m
Breaking: #ACL as creditor asks judge for investigation into concerns over #CCFC assets, & a report back to court in 6 weeks @covtelegraph

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SonofErnie · Mar 26, 2013

6 weeks ! We'll have lost the will to live by then

chiefdave · Mar 26, 2013

I don't get it, how can ACL decide they want to take someone to court then say they want the person they're taking to court to pay for it???

ccfcway · Mar 26, 2013

Lets hope Elvis isn't relying on his list of "out of contracts in the summer" as we will be into an embongo way into the summer

ccfcway · Mar 26, 2013

Ariston, and on, and on, and on

TheRoyalScam · Mar 26, 2013

chiefdave said:
I don't get it, how can ACL decide they want to take someone to court then say they want the person they're taking to court to pay for it???

Quite easily - they're the creditor.

skybluesam66 · Mar 26, 2013

Danceswithhorses said:
Any prospective buyer who buys both 50% shares in ACL will have a 43? year lease on the arena, which IIRC the council have mentioned possibly extending to 100 years...perfectly normal and buyer has a nice asset ie the leasehold.
To buy the freehold, ccfc would need someone far richer than PH4...the stadium cost over £100m to build

of which the council paid 20m
ACL 6.75m
CCFC 20m
tesco 60m (sourced by ccfc)
Plus some european grants etc

mark82 · Mar 26, 2013

TheRoyalScam said:
Quite easily - they're the creditor.

Exactly. Standard practice really.

CovLis86 · Mar 26, 2013

6 weeks.. Does that take us to the end of the season? Which would then change the game depending on what league we are in?

TheRoyalScam · Mar 26, 2013

Breaking - Arvo claiming it's owed £8.4m - the web unravels.

chiefdave · Mar 26, 2013

CovLis86 said:
6 weeks.. Does that take us to the end of the season? Which would then change the game depending on what league we are in?

I think they're saying basically they want an update / report in 6 weeks, if we're already in admin the points come off now.

Covstar · Mar 26, 2013

After all this we have to wait another 6 weeks till they investigate Ccfc's assets and report back to court?! So correct me if I'm wrong, this takes it past the deadline for points deduction this season and therefore be hit with it next season?

Danceswithhorses · Mar 26, 2013

skybluesam66 said:
of which the council paid 20m
ACL 6.75m
CCFC 20m
tesco 60m (sourced by ccfc)
Plus some european grants etc

According to jack Griffin, esteemed SBT poster

The council report on the project has been posted on this site many times, go find it..

Tesco stumped up by far the largest % for the right to own the Arena Park Shopping Centre land & build a superstore. The council & various grants made up the rest.

CCFC put in nothing, but originally had a 1/2 share in the stadium, which they subsequently sold to the Higgs Charity for £6.5M & ended up paying rent.

jon92 · Mar 26, 2013

Cov overall debt £60m

TheRoyalScam · Mar 26, 2013

Covstar said:
After all this we have to wait another 6 weeks till they investigate Ccfc's assets and report back to court?! So correct me if I'm wrong, this takes it past the deadline for points deduction this season and therefore be hit with it next season?

We're technically in administration already if CCFC Ltd holds the FA and FL Golden shares. Expect at least a 10 points deduction this season, and possibly more this season and next as the truth becomes clearer.

Danceswithhorses · Mar 26, 2013

TheRoyalScam said:
Breaking - Arvo claiming it's owed £8.4m - the web unravels.

CCFC used to be funded by SISU investment funds, but IIRC, when accounts needed to be filed last year SISU had to put their own money in, presumably ARVO ?
Old debt was then turned into equity according to the most reliable of sources...CEO Tim Fisher.

procdoc · Mar 26, 2013

why are ARVO owed 8.4 million? and who owes it to them?

RPHunt · Mar 26, 2013

procdoc said:
why are ARVO owed 8.4 million? and who owes it to them?

Don't ARVO own Ryton? And if so, were ARVO renting the training ground to the football club with some of this £8.4m owed for rent?

theferret · Mar 26, 2013

Danceswithhorses said:
According to jack Griffin, esteemed SBT poster

The council report on the project has been posted on this site many times, go find it..

Tesco stumped up by far the largest % for the right to own the Arena Park Shopping Centre land & build a superstore. The council & various grants made up the rest.

CCFC put in nothing, but originally had a 1/2 share in the stadium, which they subsequently sold to the Higgs Charity for £6.5M & ended up paying rent.

But doesn't that report you refer to (in the construction funding forecasts) a payment from CCFC to ACL of £2 million? Not a huge amount in the context of this project, but equally not "nothing".

Also, nobody is able to say with any certainty who purchased the land from BG and sold it on to Tescos. There is a Guardian article which was quoted again today in another thread that says it was Bryan Richardson who purchased the land (through which business entity I don't know) for £2 million before selling on a chunk of it to Tesco for £60 million. True? No idea, but equally I don't think it's true to say the club contributed "nothing" to the project.

Jack Griffin · Mar 26, 2013

OK it wasn't absolutely nothing, OSB did the sums it was a net £300K, they put some in then took most of it out, if Higgs Charity had not bailed them out at an inflated rate then they'd have been bust long ago, it is explained here.

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/28662-Are-we-blinded?p=404030&viewfull=1#post404030

SBS · Mar 26, 2013

£60m debts. I dont know what to believe any more, but if thats true then what a shambles.

Sub · Mar 26, 2013

feck me i thought we were debt free :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Samo · Mar 26, 2013

Is that it from court today?

maxweller · Mar 26, 2013

Cannot wait for this nightmare to end.

I cannot wait for this nightmare to end, find out how many point are to deducted.

I hope that Texan is serious about buying our Club, I guess we will soon know

ccfclinney · Mar 26, 2013

Samo said:
Is that it from court today?

No still going on in court.

SonofErnie · Mar 26, 2013

maxweller said:
I cannot wait for this nightmare to end, find out how many point are to deducted.

I hope that Texan is serious about buying our Club, I guess we will soon know

Guilfoyle, the administrator for Leeds has stated that due diligence he undertook showed that Preston Haskell IV does not have the means to take over a football club. Hopefully (but I doubt it) we are not looking at another Dhinsa situation.

Jack Griffin · Mar 26, 2013

SBS said:
£60m debts. What a shambles.

It depends what they're for, if they're SISU & AVRO management charges or higher than market rental or loan agreements with internal companies & not monies paid for external goods and services then one might question if the valuations are reasonable.

What I suspect is that SISU have been racking up artificially high charges against CCFC Ltd to try and get a better deal from any prospective purchaser (at 10p in the pound or whatever). The accounts need to be studied and what those charges apply to and a reaistic value needs to be ascertained.

The Accountants are gonna make a few bob from unravelling this rats nest!

theferret · Mar 26, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
OK it wasn't absolutely nothing, OSB did the sums it was a net £300K, they put some in then took most of it out, it is explaineed here.

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/28662-Are-we-blinded?p=404030&viewfull=1#post404030

That report and the funding forecasts were put together after the sale of costs from CCFC to the Higgs charity.

I'm just curious as to what the £2 million payment 'direct from CCFC to ACL' was. Nowhere in the document does it explain it. A rent advance?

Not all that important in the scheme of things, and they were only forecasts after all.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 26, 2013

There is a £2m payment to the project in the 2003 CCFCH accounts which forms part of the net £6.8m investment CCFCh had in the project. CCFCh then sold that net investment for £6.5m to the charity.

Delboycov · Mar 26, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
It depends what they're for, if they're SISU & AVRO management charges or higher than market rental or loan agreements with internal companies & not monies paid for external goods and services then one might question if the valuations are reasonable.

What I suspect is that SISU have been racking up artificially high charges against CCFC Ltd to try and get a better deal from any prospective purchaser (at 10p in the pound or whatever). The accounts need to be studied and what those charges apply to and a reaistic value needs to be ascertained.

The Accountants are gonna make a few bob from unravelling this rats nest!

That certainly makes sense and would explain the unbelievably inflated figures being banded about...

Jack Griffin · Mar 26, 2013

@theferret, yeah there is something in there, the projected cost of £2M was actually£1.758M, it is covered under note 7 which doesn't explain in enough detail to figure out what that was paid for, the best thing I can think of is that it was for fitting out & use of the corporate boxes.

7. Interest and other income (£1.3m)
The proceeds from sale of part of the (old) gasworks site to Tesco accrued interest prior to being used to fund the build costs. The actual interest exceeded the estimate in the original budget. This heading also includes section 106 receipts, contributions from IOC (£5.9m) for the 'casino box' (the core and shell construction of the casino), variations (funded by ACL and IOC) and the corporate interest budget.

mark82 · Mar 26, 2013

SBS said:
£60m debts. I dont know what to believe any more, but if thats true then what a shambles.

How much of that is to SISU?

Sky Blues · Mar 26, 2013

Missed the second half, but was just seeing on Twitter that news sources are saying we're getting a 10 point deduction. Has that been confirmed by the league or is that just people applying the minimum expected now it has been confirmed CCFC Ltd is in admin?

And how the heck have the debts gone up £15million to £60million in the last couple of months? They were banding around £45million a month or two ago weren't they? :thinking about:

Jack Griffin · Mar 26, 2013

And you thought quantative easing was printing money.

WillieStanley · Mar 26, 2013

And there we have our outcomes - depressing reading. Even in brevity.

The Football League has confirmed to Telegraph reporter Andy Turner that a decision about the 10-point deduction as not yet been made and there is unlikely to be any developments tonight
by daniel.smith 5:39 PM

Judge Mrs Justice Proudman agrees to dismiss ACL application for admininistration order

ACL asks judge for its costs to be "paid by any expenses in the administration" of #CCFC Ltd

CCFC Ltd administrator tells judge Cayman Islands-based hedge fund Arvo owed £8.4m. Overall debt £60m.

High Court Match Thread (17 Viewers)

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